I'm not defending Bush, in fact, my only comment in this thread is on the last page. But if you want to pat yourself on the back for comparing him to Kevin Faulk, you might want to at least check the stats first.
Bush has over 1,150 yds rushing and 1,150 yds receiving in 1.75 years
Faulk has over 2,000 yds rushing and just under 2,700 yds receiving in this his NINTH season. You can do the math.
As bad as Bush has been, Kevin Faulk hasn't even gained as many yards in 3 years as Bush just this year. Maroney has been absolutely useless this year to the Pats and Faulk still barely has 400 yards from scrimmage (600 less than Bush).
You also made the comment about taking Maroney over Bush and Bush not being durable. How many games has Bush missed because of Injury? They are already talking about Maroney being a ***** in NE and not being willing to play through minor nicks and scrapes. He has less rushing yards than Bush this year, in what many thought would be his break-out season.
Bush may indeed be a bust. But if you compare him to other top 5 picks in skill positions the past few years (Calvin Johnson - 502 yards rec) Jamarcus Russell (0 yards passing) Vince Young (19 TD's 27 Int, one of lowest QB rating in the league) Cedrick Benson (BUST), Alex Smith (maybe a bust), Carnell Williams (Maybe a bust), Ronnie Brown (Maybe a bust), Braylon Edwards (Definitely not a bust), he's done better than most.
The funny thing is, all the other RB's taken with the top picks the last 3 years are out injured....
Deuce only played in two games this year, but his average per carry was the same as Bush TY. NO has a horrific offensive line. Not saying that Bush doesn't make his own set of problems by running east/west, but all their RB's get hit behind the line of scrimmage on a regular basis.
Bottom line, would you be any happier with C. Benson, Ronnie Brown, or Carnell Williams?
I think the lesson learned here is OL, DL, and LB's are probably more worthy of top draft picks than skill guys, unfortunately these guys don't sell jerseys or put fannies in seats.
I see what you are saying Box. I made that post right after the Saints drafted him. I was trying to give him the benifit of the doubt once he became a Saint. But my deep down feelings about him never changed even though the Saints drafted him.
I started the thread way back when knowing the Saints were one of the 5 or 6 teams that had a shot of taking him.
I was overly generous to Bush when I compared him to Dante Hall. At least Hall made pro-bowls and positively impacted games for his team. What an absolute puss Bush is. Don't blame Sean Payton for calling a trick play. Blame his $13 million/yr bust who couldn't execute it (looked like his Rose Bowl lateral). Bush is the most overhyped, overrated athlete in ALL OF SPORTS (literally!). Name someone else who gets as much coverage, media, etc... who has less of an impact. When you don't play against true competition in college yet look like the greatest thing since sliced bread, you can fool a lot of people. So it's understandable that a lot of sheep around here got suckered in watching him reverse field and win the Heisman against Fresno State. Bush is a complete bust. In the same draft class as Maroney, Addai, Jones-Drew, and whoever else I can't think of right now (Jarius Norwood), Bush would now be the last pick. And to top it off, he keeps lying about his other shit.
<TABLE class=yspcontent cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=974 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class="" vAlign=top width=720>Bush's expected breakout season has been one of breakdowns instead
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Bush's expected breakout season has been one of breakdowns instead
</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><STYLE type=text/css> td.yspwidearticlebody { font-size: 13.5px; }</STYLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspwidearticlebody>By BRETT MARTEL, AP Sports Writer
December 3, 2007
METAIRIE, La. (AP) -- There was a fumble that Reggie Bush was fortunate to recover.
There were two short passes that slipped through his hands.
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</NOSCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Then there was the inaccurate, no-look toss on a botched trick play that may go down as the moment New Orleans truly blew its chance to get back into playoff contention.
Yet, more than any of those, the images that seemed to symbolize Bush's difficult second season occurred off the field at the end of the Saints' 27-23 loss to Tampa Bay.
Bush was walking toward the tunnel leading to the Louisiana Superdome locker room while what was initially called a fumble by Saints kick returner Lance Moore was in the process of being overturned. There were 14 seconds left, and head coach Sean Payton had to run Bush down and angrily order him back to the bench.
After the game, Bush sat in front of his locker for more than a half hour, still in uniform, with his hands on his head as he stared at the floor. He declined to speak with reporters.
On Monday, he was absent while reporters were permitted to talk with players in the locker room at the team's suburban training facility.
"Reggie is a great talent. Reggie is one of the best athletes I have ever seen, but that only gets you so far," quarterback Drew Brees said. "Certain fundamentals and discipline to playing this game -- that is learned and that's not something that just happens immediately."
Were expectations of Bush too high? He won the Heisman Trophy at Southern California, was the second overall pick in the 2006 draft and signed a contract worth up to $62 million over six years. Yet, many players who were virtually unstoppable during their amateur days have entered the NFL with a lot of hype, only to find that much of what worked in college only got in them in trouble against stronger, faster, more disciplined NFL defenders.
Bush seemed to be figuring that out, even overcoming it, during the latter half of his rookie season, which was defined primarily by three spectacular plays: A game-winning, 55-yard punt return for a touchdown against Tampa Bay; a screen pass that he turned into a weaving, 61-yard score at Dallas; and his 88-yard touchdown catch in the NFC championship game at Chicago, a play he finished by high-stepping and then somersaulting into the end zone.
With those highlights in mind -- not to mention his 1,307 yards running and receiving combined and his nine touchdowns during the 2006 regular season -- no one snickered when Bush confidently predicted during training camp that 2007 would be his breakout season.
After 12 games, it looks more like a breakdown season.
Bush's numbers are not bad, but far from spectacular. He's scored six touchdowns, has 581 yards rushing and 417 yards receiving. His longest run so far has been 22 yards and his longest reception 25.
The long, game-breaking plays Bush says he expects of himself haven't come this season, unlike the big mistakes he hoped to avoid.
He's been lucky the Saints have recovered most of his eight fumbles, including a punt that bounced away from him after hitting off his facemask during a win over Jacksonville.
His most costly errors were a lost fumble at the Houston 1-yard line in a loss to the Texans and the botched toss to Henderson on Sunday while the Saints were trying to protect a 23-20 lead in the final 3 minutes.
Bush, who had trouble with the handoff, already was running past Henderson by the time he got a handle on it. He had to make a split-second decision: Keep the ball and eat a likely loss of yardage, or make the risky toss.
Bush chose the latter. Henderson reached back behind him with one hand but could not pull it in. Tampa Bay ended up recovering on the Saints 37 to set up the go-ahead touchdown.
Payton sought to deflect criticism from Bush. The coach said initially and again on Monday that he put Bush in a risky situation.
"There's a lot of risk in a play like that and your worst fear is realized when you don't handle the exchange or block it just how you want," Payton said. "It's my fault for putting us in that position in that point in the game."
Speaking generally, however, Payton did say Bush needs to improve in the areas of ball security and pass blocking.
There have been other off-field distractions. The NCAA and Pac-10 are still investigating whether Bush or his family received improper benefits from agents while he was still in college. Bush has said repeatedly he did nothing wrong and his lawyer has said the Bush's are simply being extorted by criminals.
Bush is also named in a civil lawsuit filed by a fledging marketing agent who claims to gave given the Bush family money. Bush could lose his Heisman if he's found to have violated NCAA rules.
Still, Bush has never been accused of anything illegal and his NFL career in New Orleans would not be affected. Furthermore, Bush has insisted that the case has not distracted him on the field.
Brees said Bush benefited as a rookie from the presence of veteran running back Deuce McAllister, who went out for the rest of this season after a knee injury in Week 3. "Reggie is still a young player in this league, and like I said, I think a young back absolutely needs mentoring in this league from a guy like Deuce," Brees said. "It has been tough because (McAllister) has been hurt and isn't here like he was last year for him. So that's tough and I think it is just learning how to be a professional. "There's definitely a learning curve, and keep in mind the tremendous expectations for Reggie Bush from the moment he stepped foot in this league," Brees continued. "So I think that everyone expects him to go out and just be Superman all the time and that is not the case, especially in this league."
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=yspcontent cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=974 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class="" vAlign=top width=720>Bush's expected breakout season has been one of breakdowns instead
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln>Bush's expected breakout season has been one of breakdowns instead
</TD></TR><TR><TD height=7><SPACER width="1" type="block" height="1"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><STYLE type=text/css> td.yspwidearticlebody { font-size: 13.5px; }</STYLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=yspwidearticlebody>By BRETT MARTEL, AP Sports Writer
December 3, 2007
METAIRIE, La. (AP) -- There was a fumble that Reggie Bush was fortunate to recover.
There were two short passes that slipped through his hands.
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Yet, more than any of those, the images that seemed to symbolize Bush's difficult second season occurred off the field at the end of the Saints' 27-23 loss to Tampa Bay.
Bush was walking toward the tunnel leading to the Louisiana Superdome locker room while what was initially called a fumble by Saints kick returner Lance Moore was in the process of being overturned. There were 14 seconds left, and head coach Sean Payton had to run Bush down and angrily order him back to the bench.
After the game, Bush sat in front of his locker for more than a half hour, still in uniform, with his hands on his head as he stared at the floor. He declined to speak with reporters.
On Monday, he was absent while reporters were permitted to talk with players in the locker room at the team's suburban training facility.
"Reggie is a great talent. Reggie is one of the best athletes I have ever seen, but that only gets you so far," quarterback Drew Brees said. "Certain fundamentals and discipline to playing this game -- that is learned and that's not something that just happens immediately."
Were expectations of Bush too high? He won the Heisman Trophy at Southern California, was the second overall pick in the 2006 draft and signed a contract worth up to $62 million over six years. Yet, many players who were virtually unstoppable during their amateur days have entered the NFL with a lot of hype, only to find that much of what worked in college only got in them in trouble against stronger, faster, more disciplined NFL defenders.
Bush seemed to be figuring that out, even overcoming it, during the latter half of his rookie season, which was defined primarily by three spectacular plays: A game-winning, 55-yard punt return for a touchdown against Tampa Bay; a screen pass that he turned into a weaving, 61-yard score at Dallas; and his 88-yard touchdown catch in the NFC championship game at Chicago, a play he finished by high-stepping and then somersaulting into the end zone.
With those highlights in mind -- not to mention his 1,307 yards running and receiving combined and his nine touchdowns during the 2006 regular season -- no one snickered when Bush confidently predicted during training camp that 2007 would be his breakout season.
After 12 games, it looks more like a breakdown season.
Bush's numbers are not bad, but far from spectacular. He's scored six touchdowns, has 581 yards rushing and 417 yards receiving. His longest run so far has been 22 yards and his longest reception 25.
The long, game-breaking plays Bush says he expects of himself haven't come this season, unlike the big mistakes he hoped to avoid.
He's been lucky the Saints have recovered most of his eight fumbles, including a punt that bounced away from him after hitting off his facemask during a win over Jacksonville.
His most costly errors were a lost fumble at the Houston 1-yard line in a loss to the Texans and the botched toss to Henderson on Sunday while the Saints were trying to protect a 23-20 lead in the final 3 minutes.
Bush, who had trouble with the handoff, already was running past Henderson by the time he got a handle on it. He had to make a split-second decision: Keep the ball and eat a likely loss of yardage, or make the risky toss.
Bush chose the latter. Henderson reached back behind him with one hand but could not pull it in. Tampa Bay ended up recovering on the Saints 37 to set up the go-ahead touchdown.
Payton sought to deflect criticism from Bush. The coach said initially and again on Monday that he put Bush in a risky situation.
"There's a lot of risk in a play like that and your worst fear is realized when you don't handle the exchange or block it just how you want," Payton said. "It's my fault for putting us in that position in that point in the game."
Speaking generally, however, Payton did say Bush needs to improve in the areas of ball security and pass blocking.
There have been other off-field distractions. The NCAA and Pac-10 are still investigating whether Bush or his family received improper benefits from agents while he was still in college. Bush has said repeatedly he did nothing wrong and his lawyer has said the Bush's are simply being extorted by criminals.
Bush is also named in a civil lawsuit filed by a fledging marketing agent who claims to gave given the Bush family money. Bush could lose his Heisman if he's found to have violated NCAA rules.
Still, Bush has never been accused of anything illegal and his NFL career in New Orleans would not be affected. Furthermore, Bush has insisted that the case has not distracted him on the field.
Brees said Bush benefited as a rookie from the presence of veteran running back Deuce McAllister, who went out for the rest of this season after a knee injury in Week 3. "Reggie is still a young player in this league, and like I said, I think a young back absolutely needs mentoring in this league from a guy like Deuce," Brees said. "It has been tough because (McAllister) has been hurt and isn't here like he was last year for him. So that's tough and I think it is just learning how to be a professional. "There's definitely a learning curve, and keep in mind the tremendous expectations for Reggie Bush from the moment he stepped foot in this league," Brees continued. "So I think that everyone expects him to go out and just be Superman all the time and that is not the case, especially in this league."
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I am a Saints fan so I might sound a little biased here but...
First off the Saints Organization needs to get New Orleans Marshall Faulk as a RB coach next season to work with Reggie. Reggie could easily be a another Marshall Faulk. When the Saints first drafted Reggie I was thinking he would be the second coming of Eric Metcalf but that was partially because I wanted Vince Young.
With that said, We must remember he is just into his second year and he does have a lot of information he has to process on each play such as where to line up, who to block, which route to run and which decoy route or play action he should be doing. He also now has to run the plays that were designed for Deuce and his talents.
Sean Payton is doing a horrible job game planning this year on both sides of the ball and the GM Loomis mis-evaluated this teams needs and strengths. First off the draft WR Meachum in the first round and he has been inactive all season. Why didn't they just trade that draft pick for a first rounder next year. 2nd they should have kept Joe Horn. Joe Horn would have put up decent number if (and that's a big if) healthy. Finally spend some money on the defense if you are going to be aggressive/reckless on offense. Even the best offenses can't post 30 points every week. Why not draft a corner back and get another one via free agent that fits your system. Why not get a couple of real linebackers and not just some special teamers that they have been using the past 10 years.
I think the Saints need a healthy Marion Barber type back to compliment Reggie's talents. Reggie can't get you that tough yard but he could turn that one yard gain into a 40 yard gain if you keep the defense guessing. Remember even Brian Westbrook and Tiki Barber took some time to get adjusted into their roles. Also if you are going to line Reggie up as a WR then have him a route up the field. That will also open up the underneath routes for the other playmakers like Devery Henderson.
First off the Saints Organization needs to get New Orleans Marshall Faulk as a RB coach next season to work with Reggie. Reggie could easily be a another Marshall Faulk. When the Saints first drafted Reggie I was thinking he would be the second coming of Eric Metcalf but that was partially because I wanted Vince Young.
With that said, We must remember he is just into his second year and he does have a lot of information he has to process on each play such as where to line up, who to block, which route to run and which decoy route or play action he should be doing. He also now has to run the plays that were designed for Deuce and his talents.
Sean Payton is doing a horrible job game planning this year on both sides of the ball and the GM Loomis mis-evaluated this teams needs and strengths. First off the draft WR Meachum in the first round and he has been inactive all season. Why didn't they just trade that draft pick for a first rounder next year. 2nd they should have kept Joe Horn. Joe Horn would have put up decent number if (and that's a big if) healthy. Finally spend some money on the defense if you are going to be aggressive/reckless on offense. Even the best offenses can't post 30 points every week. Why not draft a corner back and get another one via free agent that fits your system. Why not get a couple of real linebackers and not just some special teamers that they have been using the past 10 years.
I think the Saints need a healthy Marion Barber type back to compliment Reggie's talents. Reggie can't get you that tough yard but he could turn that one yard gain into a 40 yard gain if you keep the defense guessing. Remember even Brian Westbrook and Tiki Barber took some time to get adjusted into their roles. Also if you are going to line Reggie up as a WR then have him a route up the field. That will also open up the underneath routes for the other playmakers like Devery Henderson.
The media and so-called experts did that over-hype crap on purpose. Just so they can tear him down when he doesn't pan out to be Moses. Everybody knew he was undersized and his strength wasn't up the middle. But look at the offensive identity of the Saints. Pass, Pass and well Pass. Reggie being dinged up and all had 13 carries for 64 yards. If the Saints had any type of balance on offense and just a middle of the pack pass defense then I figure he would have had 26 carries for 130 yards. Now that is a decent outing. If Bush was in Minnesota and running behind Hutchinson he would look like Adrian Peterson too. Because the Saints give up TD's far easier then they could score them they are a strike first offense they are a team designed to only play with the lead. Sean Payton must have took the Mike Martz coaching course because he is making some very bad decisions offensively. Now I am not saying Reggie Bush is a clear cut #1 overall pick or a complete bust. I just acknowledge this is a down year for all RB's. It took 13 weeks for a RB to notch 10 rushing touchdowns. I would rather have Bush as my RB then those soft often injured backs like Maroney, Jacobs or, Kevin Jones.
At least Reggie Bush has done something on the field although maybe not All-Pro numbers and definitely did something for the Saints and NFL financially.
What the hell has UNSUPER MARIO done??? #1 overall pick and he is taken a big fat
8 1/2 SACKS WITH 4 GAMES LEFT. COMMANDS A DOUBLE TEAM. YOU SHOULD REALLY WATCH A GAME BEFORE YOU OPEN YOU'RE MOUTH DICKPIMPLE.
At least Reggie Bush has done something on the field although maybe not All-Pro numbers and definitely did something for the Saints and NFL financially.
What the hell has UNSUPER MARIO done??? #1 overall pick and he is taken a big fat
I hope you're joking. Every GM in the league would take Williams over Bush if the draft were held again today. Mario has 8.5 sacks this yr. Dominant DE's are hard to find. 3rd down RB's who average 3 yards/carry are a dime/dozen. Not Mario's fault his team sucks. Bush's season is even less impressive in light of McCalister's injury. Before, Bush had the excuse that he had to share touches. Now, he has shown everyone he is not an every down back. 3rd down backs and gadget players are not worthy of 1st rd draft picks, let alone top 5. Williams will make a Pro Bowl before Bush does. Bush didn't do anything financially for the NFL. The media and the NFL did it for him
hno:
