'Making A Murderer' If You Have Not Watched Spoiler Alert

[rolltide]

Wouldn't have to be a deep conspiracy....One or Two at "The Top" of Manitowoc County Governemt...who want to find a means of avoiding The Bankrupting of Manitowoc as result of The potential $36 Million Avery Settlement...Colburn, Lenk, Mike & Ryan really would be all the people required to be together on the plan, to have actual knowledge of it....rest of those thereafter, involved, could have just "went along"...with no knowledge whatsoever of her not really having been murdered.

makes no sense. Avery's $36M civil suit vs the County was already settled or $400k. Manitowoc County was no longer on the hook for millions of dollars...just the 400k settlement. If you think 400 grand is bankrupting the county then they had more issues than just stevey avery

If this is true....its interesting....to say the least....

So hard to know whats true though and what is actually just attention whores and/or mentally ill folks posting online....

whoever you got this from is wrong. That bolded part is completely incorrect for starters. Go to the vid posted above and you will see in Kratz's (prosecuted attorney) own words that the non-blood Avery DNA on the hood latch was the single most damning evidence that the documentary left out which was presented to the jury during the case. Since the author of that cut/paste couldn't own up to that fact i would put his other comments in the classification somewhere between conjecture and bullshit

 

[AlwayzRight]

makes no sense. Avery's $36M civil suit vs the County was already settled or $400k. Manitowoc County was no longer on the hook for millions of dollars...just the 400k settlement. If you think 400 grand is bankrupting the county then they had more issues than just stevey avery


whoever you got this from is wrong. That bolded part is completely incorrect for starters. Go to the vid posted above and you will see in Kratz's (prosecuted attorney) own words that the non-blood Avery DNA on the hood latch was the single most damning evidence that the documentary left out which was presented to the jury during the case. Since the author of that cut/paste couldn't own up to that fact i would put his other comments in the classification somewhere between conjecture and bullshit

Avery didn't settle for 400k until he was already arrested for murder. So wtf are you talking about?

 

[Buster]

Avery didn't settle for 400k until he was already arrested for murder. So wtf are you talking about?

Exactly...He had to settle in order to have a defense team,and that was the figure the lawyers came up with as cost...

 

[rolltide]

Avery didn't settle for 400k until he was already arrested for murder. So wtf are you talking about?

gotcha. i know he settled in 2006 didn't remember when she went missing. then definitely shows his stupidity (as if it needed to be any clearer) if he's trying to settle with a county who has him locked up for a second thing he didn't do

my error on dates, mr neverwrong

 

[Jstack34]

gotcha. i know he settled in 2006 didn't remember when she went missing. then definitely shows his stupidity (as if it needed to be any clearer) if he's trying to settle with a county who has him locked up for a second thing he didn't do

my error on dates, mr neverwrong

He needed the money for his defense team

 

[rolltide]

said it at least 2-3 times in this thread that while I believe Avery is innocent of the murder I definitely do not believe she got off Avery Road alive. brothers? maybe ... dassey's older brother? possibly ... dassey's stepdad? sure, why not?

but it is far more interesting to look at both sides of the story as this was a documentary created strictly on steve avery's behalf which left out some vital evidence which is all quite damning to his case. other than proving that being a dumb inbred is recipe for a life of disaster I'm not sold on really anything else other than you shouldn't be signing a petition to get the case dismissed which would mean the federal government overstepping their boundaries in a state/county matter...i guess that's just the libertarian in me

overview from Kratz email last week....


Ken Kratz details to TheWrap key evidence he says was left out of Netflix docu-series

Since “Making a Murderer” made him famous last month, former Wisconsin prosecutor Ken Kratz hasn’t been shy about defending his work in the 2005 murder prosecution of Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey. On Monday, TheWrap reached out to him about suggestions in the Netflix docu-series that his office railroaded two innocent defendants.
In an email to TheWrap on Monday, Kratz strongly rejects the criticisms, saying the documentary series got it wrong.
The email concludes with Kratz saying Netflix should “either provide an opportunity for rebuttal, or alert the viewers that this series was produced by and FOR the defense of Steven Avery, and contains only the opinion and theory of the defense team.”


Here is his email to us, in its entirety. It begins with the Calumet County district attorney responding to our question about whether he believed the docu-series left out any evidence:

Examples for you to consider:
1. Avery’s past incident with a cat was not “goofing around”. He soaked his cat in gasoline or oil, and put it on a fire to watch it suffer.
2. Avery targeted Teresa. On Oct 31 (8:12 am) he called AutoTrader magazine and asked them to send “that same girl who was here last time.” On Oct 10, Teresa had been to the Avery property when Steve answered the door just wearing a towel. She said she would not go back because she was scared of him (obviously). Avery used a fake name and fake # (his sister’s) giving those to the AutoTrader receptionist, to trick Teresa into coming.
3. Teresa’s phone, camera and PDA were found 20 ft from Avery’s door, burned in his barrel. Why did the documentary not tell the viewers the contents of her purse were in his burn barrel, just north of the front door of his trailer?
​

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4. While in prison, Avery told another inmate of his intent to build a “torture chamber” so he could rape, torture and kill young women when he was released. He even drew a diagram. Another inmate was told by Avery that the way to get rid of a body is to “burn it”…heat destroys DNA.
5. The victim’s bones in the firepit were “intertwined” with the steel belts, left over from the car tires Avery threw on the fire to burn, as described by Dassey. That WAS where her bones were burned! Suggesting that some human bones found elsewhere (never identified as Teresa’s) were from this murder was NEVER established.
6. Also found in the fire pit was Teresa’s tooth (ID’d through dental records), a rivet from the “Daisy Fuentes” jeans she was wearing that day, and the tools used by Avery to chop up her bones during the fire.
​

<notag></notag>

7. Phone records show 3 calls from Avery to Teresa’s cell phone on Oct 31. One at 2:24, and one at 2:35–both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn’t know it him…both placed before she arrives. Then one last call at4:35 pm, without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up (his original defense), so tries to establish the alibi call after she’s already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn’t need the *67 feature for that last call.
8. Avery’s DNA (not blood) was on the victim’s hood latch (under her hood in her hidden SUV). The SUV was at the crime lab since 11/5…how did his DNA get under the hood if Avery never touched her car? Do the cops have a vial of Avery’s sweat to “plant” under the hood?
9. Ballistics said the bullet found in the garage was fired by Avery’s rifle, which was in a police evidence locker since 11/6…if the cops planted the bullet, how did they get one fired from HIS gun? This rifle, hanging over Aver’s bed, is the source of the bullet found in the garage, with Teresa’s DNA on it. The bullet had to be fired BEFORE 11/5—did the cops borrow his gun, fire a bullet, recover the bullet before planting the SUV, then hang on to the bullet for 4 months in case they need to plant it 4 months later???
​

<notag></notag>

There is more of course. But I’m not a DA anymore. I have no duty to show what nonsense the “planting” defense is, or why the documentary makers didn’t provide these uncontested facts to the audience. You see, these facts are inconsistent with the claim that these men were framed—you don’t want to muddy up a perfectly good conspiracy movie with what actually happened, and certainly not provide the audience with the EVIDENCE the jury considered to reject that claim.
Finally, I engaged in deplorable behavior, sending suggestive text messages to a crime victim in Oct 2009. I reported myself to the OLR. My law license was thereafter suspended for 4 months. I have withstood a boat-load of other consequences as a result of that behavior, including loss of my prosecution career. However, I’ve enjoyed sobriety from prescription drug use for over 5 years now, and refuse to be defined by that dark time of my life. All of this occurred years after the Avery case was concluded…I’m unclear why the defense-created documentary chose to include this unpleasantness in this movie, especially if the filmmakers had no agenda to cast me as a villain. I am not a victim in that whole texting scandal—then again, it’s exceedingly unfair to use that to characterize me as morally unfit.
To identify Lt. Lenk, Sgt. Colburn and myself as being “responsible” for the framing and knowing false murder conviction of Steven Avery is irresponsible, and inconsistent with a consideration of all the evidence presented. Netflix should either provide an opportunity for rebuttal, or alert the viewers that this series was produced by and FOR the defense of Steven Avery, and contains only the opinion and theory of the defense team.
Thanks for your consideration.
​

 

[ML Dog]

whoever you got this from is wrong. That bolded part is completely incorrect for starters. Go to the vid posted above and you will see in Kratz's (prosecuted attorney) own words that the non-blood Avery DNA on the hood latch was the single most damning evidence that the documentary left out which was presented to the jury during the case. Since the author of that cut/paste couldn't own up to that fact i would put his other comments in the classification somewhere between conjecture and bullshit

Yes, true.

I would have done well to Verify that prior to posting it, the last thing I wanna do is cloud the issues any further but obviously...others desire to do just that. Thus whoever made that graphic.


Article here speaks to the DNA Testimony (Bolding Mine):


The prosecution in Steven Avery's trial presented the linchpin of its case Friday in the death of Teresa Halbach.

Jurors were left to ponder the crucial DNA testimony until the trial resumes Monday.



The testimony was given by Sherry Culhane, chief of the State Crime Lab's DNA unit in Madison.



Coincidentally, her work helped convict Avery of a 1985 sexual assault and then helped exonerate him after he had served 18 years in prison.



Culhane testified that her tests found Halbach's DNA on:



• Bloodstains from several areas inside Halbach's Toyota RAV4.
• A bullet fragment that other witnesses said was found in Avery's garage.



Culhane also testified that her tests found Avery's DNA on:



• Bloodstains from several areas inside Halbach's SUV.

• The hood latch and the key of the SUV.



Those findings have been publicly known for months, and the jury had been told at the outset of the trial to expect the testimony given Friday.



The timing of Culhane's appearance meant that her testimony would be the last the jury would hear before the weekend.
On Monday, when the third week of testimony begins, Avery's lawyers will cross-examine Culhane.



Culhane did admit one error. She said her own DNA was inadvertently introduced in the process of examining the bullet fragment.


But she said it did not affect the testing, and she reiterated her conclusion that the DNA on the fragment was Halbach's.




Speaking to reporters, Avery attorney Jerome Buting said he plans to present information to the jury regarding how rare the use of a contaminated DNA test is during a trial.


more at link......


http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...ies-in-avery-trial-b99643012z1-363819601.html

 

[Illini]

makes no sense. Avery's $36M civil suit vs the County was already settled or $400k. Manitowoc County was no longer on the hook for millions of dollars...just the 400k settlement. If you think 400 grand is bankrupting the county then they had more issues than just stevey avery


whoever you got this from is wrong. That bolded part is completely incorrect for starters. Go to the vid posted above and you will see in Kratz's (prosecuted attorney) own words that the non-blood Avery DNA on the hood latch was the single most damning evidence that the documentary left out which was presented to the jury during the case. Since the author of that cut/paste couldn't own up to that fact i would put his other comments in the classification somewhere between conjecture and bullshit

Wrong on both points. The case was settled long after the framing. Also, DNA on the hood of the car is not in the least bit incriminating. I used to sell insurance and my DNA is all over people's houses that I don't remember their names, faces, or locations. Because I was just there. DNA on the hood of car incrimating? Get the fuck out of here. Maybe he touched her car that day, maybe he looked under the hood of the car a previous time to help her change a battery or something. She was there that day to see him. The presence of his DNA there means nothing.

 

[Illini]

Too many fucking stupid people live in this world to have depend on them to get it right on jury duty. The vast majority of people, actually. We need professional juries of people that are smart and can think critically and remove all biases. Like Dean said, if you're ever accused of a crime, good luck.

 

[LENBO]

Too many fucking stupid people live in this world to have depend on them to get it right on jury duty. The vast majority of people, actually. We need professional juries of people that are smart and can think critically and remove all biases. Like Dean said, if you're ever accused of a crime, good luck.

Whats more disturbing are jurors changing their decisions for fear of their safety or pressure from other jurors when someone's life is at stake.

 

[Illini]

Also, way too many bad people in law enforcement and prosecution that care nothing about justice, only convictions and advancing their careers. Those people need to be in professions where their dishonesty and outright corruption doesn't have as devastating consequences to others. I think that's what they like, though. The criminal justice system will never have absolute justice. If I didn't believe in God and ultimate justice, I would sleep much less than I already do. This documentary is just thoroughly suffocating to watch if you are one that cares about justice.

 

[ML Dog]

DNA on the hood of car incriminating? Get the fuck out of here.

It's been suggested that LE "discovered" the Hood Latch DNA some time after having been in possession of her car, after her car had sat in Madison where they took it....not sure of the exact timeframe on this but if someone can confirm or deny...if that Hood Latch DNA was, in fact, discovered some time later...

...how they don't find it within the period of time they have the SUV and presumably go over it with a "Fine Tooth Comb"....there in Madison.

If that Hood Latch DNA was discovered later....one might conclude its from the same Family as The Key found in the bedroom by Manitowoc Detective Lenk...after 5 or 6 previous searches of that room found no key and that bullet discovered in the Garage....in March.....3 or so months after the crime.

Which is what I'll say to Kratz's Email posted by rolltide...

Questionable Evidence materializes having been found by Manitowoc Detective Lenk who is not even supposed to be on the Salvage Yard Crime Scene because Manitowoc had acceded the investigation to Calumet County (to avoid "impropriety" as they were under the threat of a judgement as high as $36 Million) and people are supposed to have confidence in "other evidence" Kratz talks about?

No "Snarkiness" intended with that....I'm genuinely confused how if we DO feel there is (even a better than average chance of) actual impropriety where regards The Bullet, The Key and maybe The Hood Latch DNA...


...how do we manage to find confidence in the rest of the "evidence" Kratz talks about?


People across the board are doing this....basically saying "Oh yeah that Key, Bullet, Hood DNA are all bullshit" but then following up with "But Oh NO!! Theres this OTHER EVIDENCE"

Bones could have come from The Morgue. Morgue actually has incinerators HOT ENOUGH TO BURN BONE and TEETH to the cremated state these were in....unlike a Burn Barrel, an outside burn in a Quarry of lmfao burning a body IN A DAMN FIRE PIT.

Which...were we to investigate we might discover would take a whole damn day and fill the whole Yard with the unmistakeable smell of a body being burned....

....for a long long extended period of time....however long it'd take to cremate a body in a damn burn barrel...let alone a Fire Pit.

There are people who see Deer Bones remain uncremeated for WEEKS on end and they burn trash in their burn barrel twice or 3 times a week. deer Bones still are there......yet Steven Avery managed to cremate this body to the extent that he did....

Damn Case is just packed end to end with Remarkable & Completely Nonsensical Occurrences.

That completely defy explanation.

How they fail to find that Hood DNA, if in fact it was discovered much later as I am near certain that it was...is just yet another of these such things...

 

[ML Dog]

Also, way too many bad people in law enforcement and prosecution that care nothing about justice, only convictions and advancing their careers. Those people need to be in professions where their dishonesty and outright corruption doesn't have as devastating consequences to others. I think that's what they like, though. The criminal justice system will never have absolute justice. If I didn't believe in God and ultimate justice, I would sleep much less than I already do. This documentary is just thoroughly suffocating to watch if you are one that cares about justice.

Damn.

Dudez Got Skillz.


.....That what you said there....that about sums it up....


....where we are at as a Country and maybe as a Species.

 

[Illini]

People with motive to do this framing and even possibly this killing lied under oath on the stand. That is a fact. Also, the cops 100.0% planted the car on his property. Unless of course you can believe that Colburn just happened to call in ask for a reading on a license plate, but didn't in fact have that plate in front of him at the time. Lololololol. Fuck all these corrupt pieces of shit.

 

[ML Dog]

People with motive to do this framing and even possibly this killing lied under oath on the stand. That is a fact. Also, the cops 100.0% planted the car on his property. Unless of course you can believe that Colburn just happened to call in ask for a reading on a license plate, but didn't in fact have that plate in front of him at the time. Lololololol. Fuck all these corrupt pieces of shit.

I still don't know if time of Colburn's call makes it POSSIBLE he was simply verifying what was being put on the Missing Posters, like, making sure that was accurate.....to actually in Good Faith be doing a bit of Due Diligence to make sure the Posters getting put out had accurate information on them.

I have been unable to establish exactly when those Missing Posters were first created...to compare that to the time of Lenk's call...


....folks can't get enough of this though....

 

[Illini]

I still don't know if time of Colburn's call makes it POSSIBLE he was simply verifying what was being put on the Missing Posters, like, making sure that was accurate.....to actually in Good Faith be doing a bit of Due Diligence to make sure the Posters getting put out had accurate information on them.

I have been unable to establish exactly when those Missing Posters were first created...to compare that to the time of Lenk's call...


....folks can't get enough of this though....

He's holding Aces. It just looks like he has 2,7. He's a good actor just pretending to be weak when he's strong. He's actually the favorite to win the WSOP next year because of his ability to bluff.

 

[Akillies]

no sense in debating the validity of the evidence, as there is none that prove the convicted killer did it, just watch the video i posted where dean refutes all of this purported evidence. katz is just trying to gain some of his lost credibility back.

The real reason he was convicted, not the evidence, was explained by the dismissed juror in the final episode:
they were exhausted and just wanted it over with and two jurors had predetermined guilt and werent changing their mind.

 

[Akillies]

He's holding Aces. It just looks like he has 2,7. He's a good actor just pretending to be weak when he's strong. He's actually the favorite to win the WSOP next year because of his ability to bluff.

sure would like to be invited to that manitowac sheriffs poker game.

 

[ML Dog]

He's holding Aces. It just looks like he has 2,7. He's a good actor just pretending to be weak when he's strong. He's actually the favorite to win the WSOP next year because of his ability to bluff.

What?!?!!

Man...I do hope you will elaborate on that.....what would make you say that?

Obviously (or just "maybe obviously") the Poster Time Frame ain't good or he'd've used that...at some point anyways...

Must admit your statement surprises me, confuses me even more than that Steelers SU loss to that Ravens JuCo Squad Week 16....as 10 point Faves....



Everyone else on Earth that has an opinion thinks the hand that Andy is holding here is:

​

 

[cloverleaf]

Too many fucking stupid people live in this world to have depend on them to get it right on jury duty. The vast majority of people, actually. We need professional juries of people that are smart and can think critically and remove all biases. Like Dean said, if you're ever accused of a crime, good luck.

Mr. I, are you saying OJ Simpson's jury was stupid.....

....if you are not, I sure as hell am.