Could Ozzie Smith in his heyday start for over half the teams in MLB currently

[SkinsRaj28]

Yea like when you go around calling people 'idiot' for no reason, you do this more than anyone, come into another thread and tell people how 'stupid' they are or how this is the 'dumbest thread you have ever seen' or telling everyone 'RR' because you disagree....I didn't even see your opinion in this thread.

I was making a joke when i said I was right...you know how when you tell people to kill theirself then claim it was a joke, or when you call a poster a ******? What is the difference ?

I've never called anyone an idiot because I disagreed with their opinion, nor have I ever said a thread was dumb or asked that it be moved to the RR because I disagreed with an opinion being stated in it.

Like I said, it didn't come across as sarcasm. So my apologies if you were trying to make a joke. It just fit with everything else you've said in this thread. My mistake.

And for the record, I never claim that I'm kidding when I tell a poster to kill himself.

 

[SkinsRaj28]

Im with Journey on this one. Skins comes in and say he KNOWS when someone in full of shit. So not only does he know more than someone he knows if someone is telling the truth as well.

Go read exactly what I said in that thread that you're referring to. I stated that I thought the story was bullshit. It came across as shady. That was my opinion. I never said that anyone who disagreed was wrong.

And I never said that he was 100% not telling the truth. If he was telling the truth, then I would've apologized. It just didn't come across as truthful to me.

Oh well.

 

[Journeyman]

And for the record, I never claim that I'm kidding when I tell a poster to kill himself.

okay whatever floats your boat.

 

[WVU]

If we take one year in Ozzie's career (1980) we can compare him to other shortstops of that year. In 1980 he had 288 putouts and 621 assists. That puts him at getting outs 16% better than the average shortstop.

I have been reading about ozzie's stats and how many runs he has saved his team. Most of what I have been reading throw out a number around 20-25 runs saved per season. It is really difficult to get an exact number, but those who have spent countless hours on this seem pretty settled on 20-25 runs saved.

saving 75-80 runs does not compute. That is just way too high.

 

[fucnluc]

If it's 20-25, that's when you need to put in offensive production into account.

Would the team have been better off with a guy who could hit 20-25 + RBI.

Ozzie definitly made the infeild around him better, perhaps even pitchers more confidant. Not sure how one would be able to calculate the defensive impact on runs saved if you take that into account. I guess you can't.

 

[Timetopay]

If we take one year in Ozzie's career (1980) we can compare him to other shortstops of that year. In 1980 he had 288 putouts and 621 assists. That puts him at getting outs 16% better than the average shortstop.

I have been reading about ozzie's stats and how many runs he has saved his team. Most of what I have been reading throw out a number around 20-25 runs saved per season. It is really difficult to get an exact number, but those who have spent countless hours on this seem pretty settled on 20-25 runs saved.

saving 75-80 runs does not compute. That is just way too high.

16 Percent gives it about 40 more put outs. Even if you only gave 1 run per put out thats more than 20-25.

Im taking Ozzie over Ripken,Trammell, or even Steve Jeltz.

 

[fhmesq44]

If we take one year in Ozzie's career (1980) we can compare him to other shortstops of that year. In 1980 he had 288 putouts and 621 assists. That puts him at getting outs 16% better than the average shortstop.

I have been reading about ozzie's stats and how many runs he has saved his team. Most of what I have been reading throw out a number around 20-25 runs saved per season. It is really difficult to get an exact number, but those who have spent countless hours on this seem pretty settled on 20-25 runs saved.

saving 75-80 runs does not compute. That is just way too high.

That is ~130 more outs over the course of a season, or, he made outs on .8 more balls per game than an average shortstop. It is not unreasonable to extrapolate that out to 1 run saved per every 2 or 3 games.

Rickey Henderson had a similar statistic in the mid-80s when compared with other left fielders. I forget the numbers, but it was something absurd like 50 or 60 more putouts than the 2nd highest LF.

 

[WVU]

16 Percent gives it about 40 more put outs. Even if you only gave 1 run per put out thats more than 20-25.

Im taking Ozzie over Ripken,Trammell, or even Steve Jeltz.

16% of the total outs included assisted.

 

[fhmesq44]

16 Percent gives it about 40 more put outs. Even if you only gave 1 run per put out thats more than 20-25.

Im taking Ozzie over Ripken,Trammell, or even Steve Jeltz.

16% is ~130 if you combine the two numbers.

 

[WVU]

1/4 runs saved per game would be much more realistic than 1/2. That is all I am saying.

 

[Journeyman]

Now we're debating Ripken or Smith...that's a pretty tough one.

Cal was a better defensive player than most seem to realize (IN MY OPINION)

 

[Journeyman]

1/4 runs saved per game would be much more realistic than 1/2. That is all I am saying.

Okay for the sake of this very friendly debate amongst us internet pals...

Lets look at the 1985 Cards, who won 101 ball games and went to the World Series , Ozzie was NLCS MVP and for his offense....

Anyway, the Cards beat the 2nd place Mets by 3 games in the standings, so if the Cards didn't have Ozzie they probably don't win atleast 4 games because of Ozzie's glove, and miss the playoffs.

 

[Journeyman]

1987 Cards beat Mets again by just 3 games and go to the World Series...the slick feielding Wizard had to have saved 4 games again.

 

[Journeyman]

1982 Cards beat Phils by 3 games in the NL East and won the World Series...so in each of the Cardinals 3 World Series appearances ('82-'85-'87) they won their division by just 3 games...interesting.

 

[Railbird]

pitching today sucks, half the guys on rosters today, could not make a staff 20 years ago. Guys who are #2 pitchers now would be struggling to make starting roatation 20 years ago. And that is the reason hrs and avrs are up today along with the small ball parks.

 

[Dawoofdaddy]

However, if he were 27 y/o Ozzie Smith with 4 years under his belt, he could bump all but about 4-7 guys (again, I didn't look, but off the top of my head he couldn't bump Jeter, Young, Reyes, Tejada, maybe Crosby, who else?).

Any comments about this Iceman?

Makes sense to list all the teams and then go through whether or not you think he would or would not start for each team.

 

[betedgeonly]

Current NYY team would probably trade him.

I agree totally. He could not hold jeter's josck let alone start over him. ozzie could not hit. saving a run or two every 4-6 games would not help him start over many ss these days. cards were rob.

 

[Iceman]

First off this was called by some the silliest thread of all time as if their opinions were so much better than others on the matter which we now have some disagreement to. Sorry Skinraj is right on this as there was a little bit of I know this better than you attitude in this thread. At least that is the way it came across. Just re read it. Sorry but that is how I feel.

If this the silliest thread of all time than saving half run a game is by far the silliest statement in a thread of all time. If Whitey Herzog said that (and that is still up for dispute) than I am sure that it was an off the cuff remark much like Spary Anderson would say Kirk Gibson is the next Mickey Mantle. When we all knew that was wrong and neither was thinking correctly when he said it.

Good luck trying to prove that Ozzie Smith saved his team 80 runs a year, I can guarantee he didnt even make 80 more plays than an average shortstop could make. Just not enough unbeilevable chances for him to make all those plays. Think about that. 80 runs a year. What the hell? I can prove one thing in big black and white writing. .262 BA. and less than 30 HR's his whole career. That is a complete joke. 30 hr's in a 20 year career is not a starting SS on my team.

 

[Journeyman]

So would you take Trammell over Ozzie Smith?

Trammell had over 15 homers just twice in his career playing in Detroit even, Busch stadium was a very big ball park

Smith even had more career hits than Trammell and more seasons over 140 base hits.

Ironically both Smith and Trammell both finished 2nd for their league MVP awards in 1987...overall though Smith wasn't that much behind Trammell even on offense when you compare their career numbers...accept for the 580 stolen bases by Smith.

 

[barman]

WHAT A BUSY BEE THREAD this has turned out to be since I left the offrice about 12noon today.....

LET"S wrap up some Loose Ends....

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1) This is not the Silliest thread of all time.

I stated on Page 1 it was "the funniest threed ever at The Rx" - gloss I assign to two to threads per month for the past couple years. So by the time you read this post here, we may have a new FTE - thus don't take it personally ICEMAN...heh
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2) ICEMAN mentions: I have many times on here said that the game Strat O Matic baseball helped shape me into the guy I am today

SH: Word up.

I hereby take back anything negative I ever thought about your sports background - 1980s WGN-brainwashing notwithstanding.

Cut my MLB brain nuts starting with the 1970 SOM season and did not "retire" until 1996.
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3) SKINS references: ".....didn't say he was 100% not telling the truth..."

SH: I'm pretty sure Truth is usually ranked at either 100% or 0%.

Reminds me of when I was like 22 (and spending most of my time watching TV, gambling and beating my below-average-size meat...IMAGINE THAT)....and a guy smakked me for using the phrase, "To tell you the honest truth...."

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4) JMAN lobs this one: "Ozzie was greatest defensive human being to ever walk the planet..."

SH: Better than Blade, Blair and/or Brooks?

ZUP in B-more????