Christian homosexuals?

Search

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
Matt. 26:52 "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Some would say that this seems to be a strong indictment against war, and place it against certain verses where Jesus seems to advocate fighting. We'll look at those in a moment, but it should first be noted that this verse is in the form of proverbial wisdom, and is therefore not an advocation of pacifism -- nor, by reason of its proverbial nature, is it absolute, as is obvious since not every single person who has drawn a sword (or other weapon) has died by the same means.

Hence there is neither contradiction of nor relevance to other verses cited as contradictory. Moreover, that this is not intended as a statement in pacificism is seen in that the saying also carries an eschatological overtone that may be seen through this parallel, from an Aramiac Targum on Isaiah 50:11 [Albright's commentary on Matthew, 324]:

Behold, all you that kindle a fire, that take the sword: go, fall into the fire you have kindled, and fall by sword you have taken.

Expressed as this is, it has the meaning that "God's will is being fulfilled and nothing can hinder it." It has nothing to do with whether or not one actually and literally dies by the sword.

Tekton associate Eric Vestrup adds:

I fail to see how having a sword constitutes "living by the sword". The idiom "living by the sword" denotes a life of aggressive violence. How does having a sword necessitate such a life? Why can't one have a weapon for protection. I have friends with firearms, yet they don't live by the gun. In the Lukan passage, note that Jesus addresses the disciples to buy a sword if they lacked one. One can reasonably suppose that Jesus is here using a figure of speech, for when the disciples took His words in the wrong fashion, producing but two swords, Jesus tells them that the two swords are sufficient. If Jesus was here telling them to live by the sword, it would be unreasonable to think that a scant two swords would suffice for a group of at least eleven men. In the Matthean passage Jesus is most clear about promulgating what one thinks is the Christian cause by using force -- He corrects the disciples' mistaken notion that the cause would be furthered by their preventing His arrest. The Lukan passage has nothing at all to do with the Matthean passage.

What about verses cited in opposition? Let's have a look:

Matt. 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

There are a few problems with using this verse against 26:52. For one thing, it is clear that "sword" here is a figurative reference to personal division, not to literal weaponry. Skeptics may reply that it doesn't matter, for any cause of division or strife is in opposition to Jesus' supposed pacificism, and as one critic puts it, Jesus "has seeded extreme division, sedition and enmity wherever Christianity is promulgated" by "exhorting his followers to violence." Perhaps the critics need to look at the verses previous to these to see just who it is Jesus is saying will be prone to violence:


Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 10:16-33)

Far from advocating violence, Jesus is here predicting that Christians will become the victims of violence: It is the persecutors who wield the sword and become the foes. In other words, Jesus is saying here what we have: Religion will become an excuse for inhumanity. The critics have the sentiments precisely backwards.

Here's another:

Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

An advocation of war? We have addressed this matter in our trial piece -- some even think that Jesus equipped his followers with swords in anticipation of trouble, and note that Peter scuffled with the Temple police to aid in resisting Jesus' arrest. What an overstated case! The passage in Luke refers to only TWO swords - and during the so-called "scuffle," there was nothing but Peter slicing off a servant's ear, followed by Jesus instructing Peter to put his sword away! Raymond Brown [Death of the Messiah, 689] has rightly admonished those who read such things into this passage:

...such an isolated instance of spontaneous defense that could have occurred in a melee of any period is scarcely indicative of belonging to a resistance movement.

The swords in question, at any rate, were not the longswords of our medieval television programs. This would most likely have been a Jewish short sword - a dagger used as protection against wild animals and robbers, considered so essential that even the "peace-loving Essenes" carried it, and it was permitted to be carried on the Sabbath as part of one's adornment! [See Hengel, Was Jesus a Revolutionist?, 21] Needless to say, this weapon would not be much use against the Temple police - much less against any number of armed Roman soldiers!

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

You might see this one cited too -- though within the context of John 14, this is clearly "peace" in a spiritual sense and has nothing to do with physical warfare. The word "peace" here is eirene, and can mean peace, prosperity, quietness, or rest, as in Matt. 10:13: "And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you." Obviously this is not "peace" in the sense of the opposite of fighting and war.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
46
Tokens
John 5:31--If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid.
John 8:14--Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid

How can any of you people seriously put any faith in the poorly written, self-contradicting fiction of the Bible? You'd drag us all kicking and screaming into the 13th century, had you your way.

If you don't understand something Kiln you could just ask, you don't have to point fun at something you don't understand.

Jesus used his miracles and the testimony of John the Baptist to validate his claim as the Messiah. Here, however, his goal was to show a contrast, not to establish a fact. When Jesus said "I testify on my own behalf," he was not serving as his own witness. Rather, he was drawing a distinction between the Pharisees and himself. The Pharisees lacked the knowledge he had, including who he was and where he was going!
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
jesus is basically gandhi type of 2000 years ago

its hard for prophets too pull this off as people have a hard time being subjected to torture and violent acts for their beliefs and being strong enough to take it and being a martyr of sorts
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1TGwXobV0GE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

:cripwalk: :pope:

Knowledge this wisdom, this goes back when I was twelve
I love doin' right but I was trapped in Hell
Had mad ideas, sad eyes N' tears
Years of fear, but yo my foes couldn't bear
I searched for the truth since my youth
N' went to church since birth, but it wasn't worth the loot
That I was payin', plus the prayin'
I didn't like stayin' cuz of bizzie-bodies
N' dizzy-hotties
That the preach-ass souped up with lies
Had couped up, lookin' at loot, butt N' thighs
During the service, he swallowed up the poor
N' after they heard this, they wallowed on the floor
But I ignored, N' explored my history that was untold
N' watched mysteries unfold
N' dropped the jewel like Solomon, but never followed men
Cuz if you do your brain is more hollow then
Space oblivia, or the abyss
With no trace of trivia, left with the hiss
Does it pay to be deaf, dumb, or blind
From a slave he was kept from the mind
N' from a caves he crept from behind
N' what he gave was the sect of the swine
When the bible, that condemned the [COLOR=orange ! important][COLOR=orange ! important]pig[/COLOR][/COLOR]
I don't mean to pull your hems or flip your wigs
But we used to wear a turban, but now were in the urban
No more wearin' beanies or dress like the genie
No hocus pocus cuz I focus on the facts
N' put it on the track or brought it through the wax
I speak on Jacob, it might take up some time
N' too much knowledge, it might break up the ryhme
I did it anyway, just to wake up the mind
Of those who kiss stones or prays on the carpet
Those who sit at home, or sell books by the market
Need to chill N' get their mind revived
For years, religion did nothing but divide
 
Last edited:

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
46
Tokens
<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/1TGwXobV0GE&hl=en&fs=1 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

:cripwalk: :cripwalk::cripwalk::cripwalk::cripwalk::cripwalk::cripwalk::cripwalk:
 

RDWHAHB
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
1,629
Tokens
If you don't understand something Kiln you could just ask, you don't have to point fun at something you don't understand.

I understand it all too well, that's why it's so easy for me to make fun of it. You poor guy: think of all the time you've wasted on your silly superstitions when you could've been out doing good instead of just talking about it.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
46
Tokens
I understand it all too well, that's why it's so easy for me to make fun of it. You poor guy: think of all the time you've wasted on your silly superstitions when you could've been out doing good instead of just talking about it.

Suuuure buddy! Your previous post on this matter just ooooozes with understanding!!:cripwalk:
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
athiests always amuse me they think they know everything

i'm agnostic and have no problem with religion as far as practicing it on a personal level
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
45,000
Tokens
I love how even though all the older institutions of the highest
knowledge in this country: Yale, Princeton, Harvard - were all
established as Christian institutions (i.e. places to study about the
Bible), donkeys on here find a couple unrelated verses on an
atheist web-site, and using those, they think they can refute the
Bible.

People go to graduate school to study theology, and donkeys think they
know how to refute Scripture by googling "Bible skeptics"

That would be like my 5th grader who is learning pre-algebra going into
a college graduate school trying to disprove Fermet's Last Theorem.
 

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
9,282
Tokens
GZA was the last guy (along with the rest of the Wu) to actually have something important to say in Rap. Wu Tang was probably the greatest rap group of all time, anymore this shit is just that....shit.
 

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
117
Tokens
athiests always amuse me they think they know everything

That's a pretty funny statement. Not believing in something does not equal "knowing everything". I don't know who all the athiests are on this board, but I haven't seen a single one claim to know everything.

2009 and those who refuse to blindly believe (or pretend to believe) are still judged as lesser by those who would have you believe there is a scorekeeper in the sky who talks through snakes, burning bushes, closet homosexuals in a city state within Rome, Italy.

The burden of proof belongs to those who believe in the (using current scientific methods) unproveable, not with those who choose not to believe.

There is no room for logical debate with those who have convinced themselves of whatever religion they follow.

I do enjoy however reading religious people debate eachother and try to shoot down the choice of others. Watching people mocking Mormonism or Scientology but will take spiritual guidance from those who harbor pedophiles (as one example) is almost surreal comedy.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
46
Tokens
So what's it going to be? No more of today's special "Family Bible Hour With Kiln"? (An incredibly insightful and earthshattering journey into our sacred scriptures with the man known as Kiln).
 

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
46
Tokens
GZA was the last guy (along with the rest of the Wu) to actually have something important to say in Rap. Wu Tang was probably the greatest rap group of all time, anymore this shit is just that....shit.

No "Bone Thugs'n Harmony"?:cripwalk::cripwalk::cripwalk:
 

RDWHAHB
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
1,629
Tokens
So what's it going to be? No more of today's special "Family Bible Hour With Kiln"? (An incredibly insightful and earthshattering journey into our sacred scriptures with the man known as Kiln).

Only because you asked:
1 Kings 7:23​
He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim . . . It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

Leviticus 11:20-22​
All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.

Deuteronomy 14:6-7​
You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.

5 points for each answer pointing out what's wrong with these statements.

Ready?











GO!
 
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
40,109
Tokens
you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney...........................................Well its like this I have not eaten a Camel but Ive smoked one.......I have eaten rabbit & if I get another chance Ill do it again.......I eat Coney dogs all the time.
 

New member
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
117
Tokens
you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney...........................................Well its like this I have not eaten a Camel but Ive smoked one.......I have eaten rabbit & if I get another chance Ill do it again.......I eat Coney dogs all the time.

Your kind shouldn't be allowed to teach, adopt kids or get married.

SINNER!
 

RDWHAHB
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
1,629
Tokens
you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney...........................................Well its like this I have not eaten a Camel but Ive smoked one.......I have eaten rabbit & if I get another chance Ill do it again.......I eat Coney dogs all the time.
lol!

I have to admit, I had to google "coney" (rhymes with "bunny" and, as it turns out, is a colloquial term for, well, "bunny." (It's a rabbit.))
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
I love how even though all the older institutions of the highest<br>
knowledge in this country: Yale, Princeton, Harvard - were all<br>
established as Christian institutions (i.e. places to study about the<br>
Bible), donkeys on here find a couple unrelated verses on an<br>
atheist web-site, and using those, they think they can refute the<br>
Bible. <br>
<br>
People go to graduate school to study theology, and donkeys think they<br>
know how to refute Scripture by googling "Bible skeptics" <br>
<br>
That would be like my 5th grader who is learning pre-algebra going into<br>
a college graduate school trying to disprove Fermet's Last Theorem.
<br><br>weak comeback dude<br><br>still haven't quite explained how<br><br>certain parts of the old testament are the word of god and should be take seriously<br><br>while certain parts like stoning people or putting people to death for some actions are "uncivilized" in this day and age and shouldn't be taken word for word<br><br>its either the word of god, or its up to you to interpret it in your own PERSONAL way<br><br>which is it dude?<br><br>also you talk about cults while IMO catholicism is a cult to some extent you got this head dude the pope (that's the key to most "cults") telling all the followers the "rules" of how the church should run and how a book written 2000 years should be interpreted<br>
<br><br>
 

the bear is back biatches!! printing cancel....
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
24,692
Tokens
That's a pretty funny statement. Not believing in something does not equal "knowing everything". I don't know who all the athiests are on this board, but I haven't seen a single one claim to know everything.

2009 and those who refuse to blindly believe (or pretend to believe) are still judged as lesser by those who would have you believe there is a scorekeeper in the sky who talks through snakes, burning bushes, closet homosexuals in a city state within Rome, Italy.

The burden of proof belongs to those who believe in the (using current scientific methods) unproveable, not with those who choose not to believe.

There is no room for logical debate with those who have convinced themselves of whatever religion they follow.

I do enjoy however reading religious people debate eachother and try to shoot down the choice of others. Watching people mocking Mormonism or Scientology but will take spiritual guidance from those who harbor pedophiles (as one example) is almost surreal comedy.

well i personally tend to find them to be of the know-it-all variety of people i know i'm stereotyping but....

like i said i'm agnostic

just have a problem with atheists saying there is no god period and i know this you religious people are morons

that's an atheist's stance

the sun used to orbit the earth

the earth used to be flat

i'm an agnostic in most things in life and tend to believe that i don't truly know much of anything in the grand universal scale....but try my best to improve on my ignorance as i go along in life....

and you talk about cults see above i'd consider catholicism a type of cult myself

the religion itself isn't the root of the problem

the institutionalization and humans molding the passages for their gain or to control people's lives is the problem....
 

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
46
Tokens
1 Kings 7:23​
He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim . . . It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it.

Leviticus 11:20-22​
All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper.

Deuteronomy 14:6-7​
You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.

Answers:

1 Kings 7:23: The passage only claims that the basin was "circular" in shape not a perfect circle. You'll have to forgive Solomon living that long ago who might not have had quite the technology that we do today. There are several senarios that those measurements could be accurate such as having six sides while still maintaining a circular shape.

Leviticus 11: 20-22: The Hebrew word for insects is "sheh'-rets" which actually encompasses much more than just insects. Anytime you are translating langages you will have slight differences in their meanings. All you can do is translate it as close to the original meaning as possible without losing it's original meaning right?

Deuteronomy 14: The hare was declared impure for being a ruminant with out cloven hooves. The hyrax also, for being a ruminant without cloven hooves. The Hebrew term for (hyrax) is "shaphan", has been translated by older English versions of the Bible as "coney." The coney is actually an exclusively European animal never present in Canaan.

There are your answers, all though I doubt you were ever really interested in them. Like I said before you seem more interested in making fun of something you don't understand!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,877
Messages
13,574,573
Members
100,879
Latest member
am_sports
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com