WWTS is a ripoff book!!

Search

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
43
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>2/ Any wagers – winners or losers – placed past post were refunded back to all customers.

3/ happyday placed a wager on race 4 circa twenty minutes after the race went off.

4/ This wager was refunded as per our past post rules.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> WWTS
So the wagered amount was refunded?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> they will not grade it for me as she still insists i bet race 4. WTF???? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Happy
Didn't catch this before.

Happy if you are only out the bet, and not any $$......

WWTS seems that if you fixed your software this wouldn't happen.

As long as no pre-existing money is being taken out of happy's account. Move on
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
3,854
Tokens
Well, well. Apparently not all the facts were brought to light. A lot of 'god damn' facts. Well, since he got his money back on the past-posted wager, and apparently since he was the one who hung up in the heat of the moment, his only bitch now would be the race 4 vs. race 5 issue, whether he thought he was betting on race 5 since race 4 should never have been up, else why bet a loser? On that issue, I have to side with the player, and I wonder whether WWTS would have given him the benefit of the doubt if he hadn't gone out of his way to be so hostile. A smart move would have been to accept responsibility for the error that left race 4 up and grade his ticket a winner - obviously a management call, but when someone is going off full throttle on you, it's hard to decide in his favor.

I'll be interested to see what happens now, so for the moment I'm no longer thinking WWTS is the heavy on this one - only fair.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1
Tokens
I just had to sign up and Chime in. Reading those emails was disturbing, i can't believe how brutal happyday acted in them. BetWWTS didn't antagonize him at all, other than the original software error in question.
Moral: Never throw a temper tantrum in your at a casino, or in emails with them, Just the facts m'am
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
31
Tokens
What do you expect? The guy made a wager on what he thought was race 5 and WWTS tells him nope, sorry you bet on race 4. Sure, it was almost 20 minutes after race 4 was over but our rules state you can't bet on a race that was concluded. Sure you bet on a horse to place that really showed in race 4, doesn't matter you bet on race 4 and our rules state...

What a joke. What really gets me is somehow sportsbooks think that if a player gets pissed off and loses his temper then they shouldn't get any kind of leniency from them. Dealing with irate customers somehow doesn't apply to the offshore industry. Nothing but a bunch of conceited bastards.

Remember this though, it was WWTS' shitty horse software that caused this whole mess and they even acknowledge it, so despite the player getting pissed off about this fact, WWTS is willing to sweep it under the rug. UnF'nbelievable.
 

SportsOptions/Line up with the pros
Joined
Jul 20, 2000
Messages
13,227
Tokens
I haven't been following along on this one, sorry. Am I reading this right Happy that your money was already refunded? Been refunded the whole time? All the letter writing, phone jamming and account closing is because you want to be paid as having some winning wagers that you never bet. No proof of anything just your word?

If necessary I will listen to the tape....
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
42,730
Tokens
Aren't there many books who allow players to past post but grade accordingly after the fact? Many have had trouble at Oly for the same thing. They have a 2 min rule to handle this, but wagers can be accepted after post.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
31
Tokens
McIrish,

The proof is that he bet on a race 3 minutes before race 5 went off and 17+ minutes after race 4 was over. WWTS does not deny this fact! So if you were running this book that acknowledges they were having problems with their software, what do YOU think the players intentions were?
 

And if the Road Warrior says it, it must be true..
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
15,481
Tokens
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What a joke. What really gets me is somehow sportsbooks think that if a player gets pissed off and loses his temper then they shouldn't get any kind of leniency from them. Dealing with irate customers somehow doesn't apply to the offshore industry. Nothing but a bunch of conceited bastards.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree with you on this one. I should have the right to be as pissed off as I want at my sportsbook...Its my money to begin with, isnt it?? If I have a problem that keeps getting passed around like a saturday night whore, I think that I should be able to say my mind without any stall tactics.
 

SportsOptions/Line up with the pros
Joined
Jul 20, 2000
Messages
13,227
Tokens
Mo - These guys try and blackmail books over the forums when they don't get their way. I tell ALL of them to come to us and we can work out something if you feel you have been wronged. WWTS is one of the easiest and most reasonable people to work with there is out here. But do not run to the forums and try to intimidate anyone. It won't work! He starts with a thread titled WWTS is a rip-off book, acts like a jerk to everyone there, threatens to jam their phone lines, scream and holler about closing his account, threatens legal action, and then whines about how pathetic they are and openly wonders if he'll ever even get paid from this shit book. I've seen it all before and we will see it again.

Let me guess, the player can act like a total dumbass and call these people everything in the book but the correct thing in your mind is for them to cower down and "save this valuable player" by giving him what he wants. Don't work that way, your situation will be handled on the merits of it and not how loud you scream and how nasty you get. If anything that stuff should work against you in my book. They did just what I would do. "We understand sir, here's your money and you have a nice day". Frankly I don't give a damn what his intentions were on his bets, his actions spoke loud enough for me.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
31
Tokens
McIrish,

You're right. When a books software rips you off of a win and they tell you tough luck the player should just cower down and accept it.

My bad.
 

SportsOptions/Line up with the pros
Joined
Jul 20, 2000
Messages
13,227
Tokens
Mo - we all have our own opinions. Maybe somewhere along the line he got something done by acting this way. I will tell you this, there is often a direct correlation between how loud and nasty someone gets to how little of a case they have. The one's who are going to "destroy you" if they do not get the money in their account yesterday never have a strong case, that's why they resort to these tactics. I resolved a case where a guy was stiffed for $25,000 on an on-line casino. He wrote a few e-mails, we made some calls and his words were take your time Patrick, I'm confident I'm right and will get that money. No running to the forums, no legal stuff, no threats or anything else. He knew he had a solid case and he waited, in 2 months he got paid every quarter he had coming.

When your "case" is you think the book may have screwed up then no need to be acting like this. Even though they refunded your money you want action on your intentions? Not to mention not having one single shred of proof for any of this? It's like two people arguing, usually the one screaming the loudest has the worst position. To even be here trying to defend the way this guy acted is silly, why not be decent to people why they resolve it? No excuse for it. He got his money back and he is out of WWTS. Win/win as far as I am concerned.
 

Pop-culture, entertainment, sports and contest Mod
Joined
Dec 20, 2002
Messages
33,977
Tokens
I AGREE THEY SHOULD DO SOMETHING TO FIX THE SOFTWARE, OR QUIT ACCEPTING HORSE WAGERS IF THERE ARE THESE PROBLEMS...

HOWEVER, THOSE EMAILS SEEM A LITTLE TOO MUCH FOR ME.....ALL THE "GOD DAM" THIS AND THAT, WHY? GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO CHECK IT OUT, AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS...ONE EMAIL SHE SAYS WHAT INFO SHE NEEDS, THEN HE STARTS IN AGAIN, WHY NOT CALL AND GIVE THE INFO? IF U WANT THE MONEY THAT FAST? AND BEING SO MAD ABOUT BEING BLOCKED FROM A CASINO....IF U DONT WANT TO PLAY IT, JUST DONT PLAY IT......
I THINK HE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN ALOT FARTHER HAD HE ACTED CIVIL.....

ALSO, I THINK IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MENTIONED FROM THE START, THAT HIS BET WAS NOT GRADED A LOSS, BUT GRADED A NO PLAY, AND HE GOT HIS MONEY BACK.......IT APPEARED AT FIRST, THAT HTEY KEPT HIS 100.00 BET TO BOOT, WHEN THAT WAS NOT THE CASE.........

I CAN SEE THE OTHER SIDE (WHAT WE CALL THE BEANTOWN SIDE), HAD THE HORSE IN THE 5TH RACE NOT PLACED, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN IN HERE WHINING THAT HE BET THE 4TH RACE, AFTER IT RAN, HIS MONEY SHOULD BE REFUNDED, HOW CAN THEY "ASSUME" HE WANTED A BET ON THE 5TH RACE?....YOUR RULES "CLEARLY STATE" THAT ALL BETS MADE AFTER POST ARE REFUNDED, WHY IS MINE NOT REFUNDED....I BET ON RACE 4, I SHOULD GET MY MONEY BACK.........
 

Banned
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
802
Tokens
I'm sorry, but I don't find WWTS's defense so compelling. Here is my point-by-point analysis:

1) They admit their software as the initial problem.

2) I realized the wager was a no action from happyday's printout of the bet: " Status NA: game postponed/canceled" (Suprised many of you didn't catch that) However, if this wager was not cancelled, it would have been a loser, so why would someone past-post a loser? Duh

3) happyday couldn't have posted 20 minutes past the race if WWTS had been having problems and he wouldn't have past-posted a loser.

4) Refunding the wager is a robotic response in an attempt to relieve yourselves of an actual responsibility. Again, why would someone past-post a loser? The "past post" is the WRONG rule to apply. The correct rule should be "our software goofed, how can we make this right?"

5) happyday did believe his wager to be on race 5, and not 4. Technically, WWTS is correct, however, the software error in question may have caused happyday to bet on race 5, but it was recorded as race 4. Or, maybe the screen mislabled the race. WWTS's software problem is clearly the source of this error/confusion by happyday and WWTS should take responsibility.

6) This just repeats point #3 and ignores any motivation as to why a player would past-post a loser or the WWTS software problems of point #1.

7) This is an admission that the supervisor misunderstood the situation (it was not straight-forward) which backs up happyday's original description about the clerk being clueless.

8) I've gotten hung up on accidentally during a transfer. This could be misunderstanding with both sides thinking the other hung up. Not really relevant, except to explain heated tempers.

9) see point #8 above.

10) The claim by WWTS is that the player jumped on the forums minutes after the first call is BOGUS. The first 2 emails that WWTS produced have timestamps 7-9 hours prior to happyday's post on this forum. happyday may have jumped the gun a little going to the forum and picking such an inflamatory title, but the post itself was fairly rational and made hours after the email exchange posted by WWTS.

11) The casino thing is a little weird. That does sound like he has a friend using the casino and didn't want anymore wagering to occur. Although, simply changing the password to the account should have sufficed. It shouldn't have required a "Casino Specialist".

As for the emails, WWTS has posted, the first email refers to earlier emails that were not posted. The subject line is: "Subject: RE: Last email". So, it seems to me that WWTS is being selective and not showing the previous emails that lead to the player getting so hot-under-the-collar. Also, as I noted above, the posting to this forum occurred hours after the first email exchange.

The emails themselves make WWTS look incompetent. The player asks for payout and book ignores. Using WWTS timestamps:

Happyday 10/27/2003 12:32 PM
I asked to have my account blocked from the casino and was told i could not do that. I then sent another email letting you know i would like to close my account totally in that case and have the balance sent to me via western union. Still no reply.

WWTS 10/27/2003 1:52 PM
I will be very happy to ensure your request is processed within a timelier manner (though this is clearly not the first request and it could have been handled over the phone when the player called and requested the casino blocked)

happyday 10/27/2003 11:41 PM
I put in for a withdrawal last night and it wasnt done.

WWTS (no time stamp)
We're sorry to hear that you want your BETWWTS.com account closed.... If you would like a payout processed today, Oct. 28th, 2003, just send us a request specifying the amount... The player wanted his account closed two days before. Notice, that player has been switched from "wendy" to "eldon". The rest of the message is the insincere/robotic/form-letter "sorry we screwed you. come back and visit us soon" as if nothing had happened.

The email from "Natasha" indicates that they made the payment at 9:17am, though the player may have been unaware of it at 1:17pm. Finally, the player appears to have been unable to get a tracking number promptly. This may have lead happyday to believe that WWTS was giving him the run around and had not actually sent the payment.

I KNOW from my own experience with a book that this was done to me (at a different book). When my check was late, I was always told that it had already gone out. I couldn't get a tracking number though. Eventually, when the check did arrive, the bank-date was AFTER my call. Though WWTS may have sent the check out, the lack of tracking number may have lead happyday to think he was getting a "check is in the mail" runaround.

WWTS, do the right thing and send the man his $150 for race #5.
 

Rx. Senior
Joined
May 20, 2001
Messages
15,046
Tokens
WWTS probably didnt want me as a customer anyway, but they wont be gettting me anytime soon either! They problem with that tennis bet a few months back was TOTALLY mishandled by them and so was this.

I would have only $2000-4000 to them anyway, so it wont make a difference. But their reactions to this problem ARE totally at fault considering the small amount of money we are talking about and the fact that the guy "set precedent" with his previous bets.

Happyday, was your wager IMMEDIATELY refunded since it was a loser? Or did they do what I think they did and wait about 10 hours before refunding your wager!
 

Another Day, Another Dollar
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
42,730
Tokens
My opinion of WWTS is the same today as it was 6 months ago. They are one of the strongest books period. If I would take money from WWTS and put it in 90% of the other books offshore I would be doing myself a misjustice IMO.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
155
Tokens
Patrick,
I dont care what you say as the bottom line is...they stole 150.00 from me. I appreciate mostly everyones understanding as i said before i hate the feeling of being taken. Was i rude afterwards? yes, but that was after i called the "supervisor" (or lack of one) and was told it wasnt being graded a winner because i tried to bet a race that was run and was rude as well. the money is no big deal but no i will not let it go and will continue to bash them and bug them till they make it right. They know who is in the right here and who screwed up..Again, i appreciate everyones feedback

Bucsfan,,
What would your emails say if you got ripped off?? its not a nice feeling
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
155
Tokens
I just read your lame excuse wwts..This will show you how stupid these people are..they wrote in the reply the following:


"You will notice that he has not once questioned the situation regarding race 4 at Northfield until 20 hours after the race was run and 20 hours after posting his dispute on the forum."

ARE YOU PEOPLE ON DRUGS?????????I called up 5 minutes after the race went official!!!!! If you are going to make up lies at least come up with better ones then that. UNREAL
 

And if the Road Warrior says it, it must be true..
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
15,481
Tokens
Java:
Great rundown of the events
1036316054.gif
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,883
Messages
13,574,660
Members
100,881
Latest member
afinaahly
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com