I do not agree with what wwts did , but if they are saying that you past posted them(which you obviously did not) are the also refunding the original bet as they would not have legally accepted it if it was past posted???
thanks for the heads up happy as I am withrawling all of my $$$ from another book that is continously getting dos`ed and was considering wwts but will have to find somewhere else now
thanks for the heads up happy as I am withrawling all of my $$$ from another book that is continously getting dos`ed and was considering wwts but will have to find somewhere else now
"do not agree with what wwts did , but if they are saying that you past posted them(which you obviously did not) are the also refunding the original bet as they would not have legally accepted it if it was past posted???"
you must not have heard of the BEANTOWN/CASCADE rule. it states that as long as their ads are paid for and no insiders here are losing any money they are free to screw us all at will with no challenges from the "watchdogs" here. let an insider here make a claim like this and their ads are down in ughhhh what was it? an hour and a half i think?
you must not have heard of the BEANTOWN/CASCADE rule. it states that as long as their ads are paid for and no insiders here are losing any money they are free to screw us all at will with no challenges from the "watchdogs" here. let an insider here make a claim like this and their ads are down in ughhhh what was it? an hour and a half i think?
Sounds to me like WWTS screwed up several ways:
1) The player claims he has a pattern of betting 2-3 minutes before the race. This should be easily verifiable by WWTS. Many books (probably WWTS, too) will throw out players or claim collaboration for bets within 2-3 minutes of each other. If books can use that kind of pattern to kick out a player, they should use it to exonerate a player.
2) If the race had already gone off and WWTS listed it as available, then WWTS made another mistake. At the very least this indicates a problem on their end. This problem may even have confused the player, as he may have been betting the "next available race", assuming that it was race #5. This is very reasonable. Even if the player made a mistake here, it is still a result of the book's original error.
3) If the player was trying to past-post, wouldn't he have picked a winner for race #4 instead of making a bet that would have won on race #5, which hadn't even run yet?
4) Is all this bad press really worth $150 after it is obvious that WWTS was not error-free and may have contributed to any confusion? WWTS hasn't really disputed anything by happyday other than to try and get off on a technicality, when the player's intention was quite clear. Any decent book would extend the player some leeway here.
This is just a stupid management decision that ignores both the words customer and service.
1) The player claims he has a pattern of betting 2-3 minutes before the race. This should be easily verifiable by WWTS. Many books (probably WWTS, too) will throw out players or claim collaboration for bets within 2-3 minutes of each other. If books can use that kind of pattern to kick out a player, they should use it to exonerate a player.
2) If the race had already gone off and WWTS listed it as available, then WWTS made another mistake. At the very least this indicates a problem on their end. This problem may even have confused the player, as he may have been betting the "next available race", assuming that it was race #5. This is very reasonable. Even if the player made a mistake here, it is still a result of the book's original error.
3) If the player was trying to past-post, wouldn't he have picked a winner for race #4 instead of making a bet that would have won on race #5, which hadn't even run yet?
4) Is all this bad press really worth $150 after it is obvious that WWTS was not error-free and may have contributed to any confusion? WWTS hasn't really disputed anything by happyday other than to try and get off on a technicality, when the player's intention was quite clear. Any decent book would extend the player some leeway here.
This is just a stupid management decision that ignores both the words customer and service.
I know it was an obvious oversight on the player's part and the book's software for leaving race 4 open when it had already finished. But, the main thing I believe is that he made the wager online and it is his responsibility to make sure his ticket reads Race 5, he did not because the Ticket read Race 4. So I think the player is at fault and should try to understand the books point of view.
We all make mistakes but this is one of those mistakes where the folks behind the counter need to step up and do the right thing. Had it not been for the software, this wouldn't have happened in the first place.
WWTS, do the right thing here to save face. You already lost that guy as a player and can damn well bet several others around here will think twice before posting up with you all.
WWTS, do the right thing here to save face. You already lost that guy as a player and can damn well bet several others around here will think twice before posting up with you all.
WWTS is clearly in the wrong here.
Who in their right mind would purposely past post a race & still lose? WWTS think for a second here!
The man obviously knew what he was doing as he was sitting there betting & watching the track all night, do you really think he would bet the wrong race?
Oh & lets just play devil's advocate & say that he did bet the wrong race, is it his fault your software is a piece of shit to still have races open for wagering 20+ minutes after results are already in?
I'm glad I stopped playing with you clowns.
Who in their right mind would purposely past post a race & still lose? WWTS think for a second here!
The man obviously knew what he was doing as he was sitting there betting & watching the track all night, do you really think he would bet the wrong race?
Oh & lets just play devil's advocate & say that he did bet the wrong race, is it his fault your software is a piece of shit to still have races open for wagering 20+ minutes after results are already in?
I'm glad I stopped playing with you clowns.
I wish that this had happened BEFORE I posted with them. Yes--his wager should be returned if it was a no-play. However their software says his bet was on race 4, so to them it was simply a losing bet. As for his betting patterns of 2 to 3 minutes before a race, they are not considering a pattern. Ummmm. Maybe that 8.9% instant cash fee was too much for this giant in the industry and one of General's top 3!
"WTF? Any moron can see that the guy was betting race 5. Does WWTS think that this guy just wanted to give them $150 for free, knowing it was a losing bet? Jesus! Where's the outrage in this? Not only that, but why the hell was race 4 even open for betting 20 minutes after the race was over?" MoDigitz
"This is just a stupid management decision that ignores both the words customer and service." Java
Agreed - it is hard for me to believe that books will go to inordinate lengths and costs to get customers (junk mailings, bonuses, promotions, etc) yet will react in this situation as they have to a long-time customer. I had an account there myself last year but drifted away - but given this decision, and the fact that they're claiming he past-posted a losing race (itself simply unbelievable, and if it happened was due to their error, not his), I can guarantee you that all of my posting up there is also in the past.
Simply a horrible call by management, and I certainly would not want a penny of my money at a book that cannot relent, given the facts and especially over $150 to a long-time customer.
"This is just a stupid management decision that ignores both the words customer and service." Java
Agreed - it is hard for me to believe that books will go to inordinate lengths and costs to get customers (junk mailings, bonuses, promotions, etc) yet will react in this situation as they have to a long-time customer. I had an account there myself last year but drifted away - but given this decision, and the fact that they're claiming he past-posted a losing race (itself simply unbelievable, and if it happened was due to their error, not his), I can guarantee you that all of my posting up there is also in the past.
Simply a horrible call by management, and I certainly would not want a penny of my money at a book that cannot relent, given the facts and especially over $150 to a long-time customer.
This is ridiculous!
This book, however good of reputation it has, is obviously not seeing the big picture here. With all the player/book disputes that seem to be going on these days, They are going to Give this guy grief over $150?? When it was obviously either a mistake or thier error? A loyal customer at that!!
WWTS: Let's make $150 here, and lose $1,000'S later.
Good luck..BL
This book, however good of reputation it has, is obviously not seeing the big picture here. With all the player/book disputes that seem to be going on these days, They are going to Give this guy grief over $150?? When it was obviously either a mistake or thier error? A loyal customer at that!!
WWTS: Let's make $150 here, and lose $1,000'S later.
Good luck..BL
First off, please note that we do not like doing this in a public forum, but see no other way to set the record straight.
1/ We were experiencing problems with our horse racing program which meant that some races were left open past post time.
2/ Any wagers – winners or losers – placed past post were refunded back to all customers.
3/ happyday placed a wager on race 4 circa twenty minutes after the race went off.
4/ This wager was refunded as per our past post rules.
5/ happyday claimed that he placed his wager on race 5 and not race 4.
6/ happyday’s wager according to our log files was placed on race 4.
7/ happyday spoke to a supervisor late on Monday night and the supervisor explained to him what the company position was on what appeared at first look to be a straight forward situation. happyday did not ask for his wager to be investigated – he immediately asked for his account to be closed!
8/ Our supervisor never hung up on happyday. As was explained to him on the phone, the wagering supervisor that he was speaking to was transferring him to the customer care department to take his details for his payment request.
9/ happyday hung up. (If one of the moderators would like to listen to the tape we would be more than happy to load it for them).
10/ Within minutes, a posting was made to the forum under this thread entitled, “WWTS is a ripoff book!!”
11/ Before, during and after race 4 at Northfield we have been corresponding with happyday, firstly regarding his request to be self-excluded from Wise Guy Casino and later to close his account.
You will notice that he has not once questioned the situation regarding race 4 at Northfield until 20 hours after the race was run and 20 hours after posting his dispute on the forum.
In the interim we received numerous requests to close his account such as, “If my account is not closed TOTALLY by tonight and my withdrawl sent tomorrow I am going to complain on every board and to every government agency I can find.”
Unfortunately such statements do not make it conducive for any sportsbook to go the extra mile for a player – which we always normally strive to do in any given situation.
Below are some email correspondences between our Customer Care group and happyday regarding this situation. Again, this is not normal practice for our company to post correspondence on a public forum, but considering the extenuating circumstances, we feel it’s necessary in this instance.
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/27/2003 12:32 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: RE: Last email
I have sent numerous emails that have been ignored over the last 12 hours about my account. I asked to have my account blocked from the casino and was told i could not do that. I then sent another email letting you know i would like to close my account totally in that case and have the balance sent to me via western union. Still no reply. This is my last email before we handle it on major wager, the rx, bettorsworld etc... I put in my request for withdrawal last night and am expecting it today.
XXXXXX
-----Original Message-----
From: "Customer Care" <Support@betwwts.com>
Sent: 10/27/2003 1:52 PM
To: XXXXXX
Subject: FW: RE: Last email [1160:938]
Dear XXXXXX,
Firstly I would like to sincerely apologize for the delayed response.
I have conversed with a Casino Specialist, and he has indicated to me it is your prerogative to have your account blocked.
Please provide the following information outlined below I will be very happy to ensure your request is processed within a timelier manner.
Amount
Mothers Maiden Name
Date Of birth
Favorite Color
City & State you expect your Payout.
Telephone contact during the day
If you have any reservations you may call to speak with me directly my extension is 1871 I will be available until 5:00 o'clock eastern. Or you may e-mail me and place ATTN Wendy as your subject.
Once again thank you for your patience and I sincerely apologize for the delay.
Regards,
Wendy
BetWWTS.com
Customer Care Specialist
1-800-238-9987
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/27/2003 11:41 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: RE: account closed
I want my god damn account closed right now!!!!This is the last email im sending.Iput in for a withdrawal last night and it wasnt done...If my account is not closed TOTALLY by tonight and my withdrawl sent tomorrow i am going to complain on every board and to every government agency i can find. I am also filing a complaint with the asic about you ripping me off. If the account is not deactivated tonite i will follow through with what i need to. Let me spell it out for you CLOSE THE GOD DAMN ACCOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I will never play with you again
XXXXXX
Customer Care <Support@betwwts.com> wrote:
Hello XXXXXX,
We're sorry to hear that you want your BETWWTS.com account closed. In accordance with your request the account has been made inactive, meaning that it has been closed without being deleted altogether. It can be reopened BY YOU ONLY at any time.
We are sincerely sorry that you are not pleased with some of the service you've received but we assure you that our intentions are good. If you would like a payout processed today, Oct. 28th, 2003, just send us a request specifying the amount, and also providing the answers to the security questions: mother's maiden name, date of birth and favorite color. There is no reason that we would not be able to process a payout for you today. Keep in mind that it would be your first payout and, according to company policy, it would have to be sent in the form of a cheque by Fedex or UPS (your choice) for address verification purposes and basically for your security.
We pride ourselves on being the best in the industry in every aspect and we greatly value each and every one of our customers. We are a licensed, regulated company that's been around for almost 13 years, and we plan to be here for many, many more. We hope you decide to stay on with us and let us make your future experiences rewarding and unmatched!!
Best Regards,
Eldon
Customer Care Specialist
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/28/2003 1:17 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: RE: account closed [1240:980]
What the **** is this shit?????????? I called yesterday and did the withdrawal and told it was processed. Now you tell me i have to request it again. Again i ask, what the **** is going on there? I have already posted on the boards about how you assholes stole 150.00 from me last night at horse racing but now it looks like i will be posting on the boards that wwts is slowpaying..If i dont hear back from a SUPERVISOR in the next hour im posting about the slowpay as i have now requested a withdrawal 2 times sunday night and last night and it still hasnt been sent.wtf?????????
-----Original Message-----
From: "Customer Care" <Support@betwwts.com>
Sent: 10/28/2003 2:01 PM
To: XXXXXX
Subject: FW: RE: account closed [1240:1039]
Hi XXXXXX,
Thank you for taking the time out to contact us via email.
Fed ex guarantees delivery within 24-48 hrs from the time processed. All withdrawals are processed between the hours of 8am and 12 noon from Monday to Friday. Your account history shows that your funds for the amount of $ XXXX was deducted at 9:17am this morning and your check has been issued via Fed ex.
Any questions,please contact us at 1-800-580-5558.
Our apologies for any inconvenience caused.
Regards
Natasha
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/28/2003 5:45 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: FW: horse wager # 12812249
just to let you know that since you made no attempt to rectify the situation that arose due to your mistake and me not getting credited for the horse wager i made i have had no choice but to go on the rx.com to post that your book steals from people. I will be going on major wager and bettorsworld as well as the other boards tonight if i dont hear back. If you check out the posts you will see it was a poor decision to not answer my emails or hang upon me on the phone when i tried to rectify this. I will continue to do this until it is addressed. you may want to pass this on to a COMPETENT supervisor who can address this before it snowballs
XXXXXX
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/28/2003 6:25 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: FW: where is my tracking number
WHERE IS MY GOD DAMN TRACKING NUMBER???????? You will not get away with ripping me off with the horse wager as well. Just wait til saturday and sunday
XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------
At BetWWTS.com we always look to work with our customers to resolve any disputes amicably and come to a swift resolution that is fair – if you let us and explain what the problem is.
Unfortunately we do not monitor the forums twenty-four seven. What we do provide to all of our customers is twenty-four seven customer support either by e-mail to support@betwwts.com or toll free by calling 1-888-609-9450. We can only deal with a problem that is brought directly to our attention as we are not in the business of hearsay, rumor or insinuation.
What was brought to our attention is that happyday wanted his account closed NOW – that was loud and clear from his correspondence.
We did not steal his money, we did not hang up on him, we did not avoid answering his e-mails and we have not slow paid him.
1/ We were experiencing problems with our horse racing program which meant that some races were left open past post time.
2/ Any wagers – winners or losers – placed past post were refunded back to all customers.
3/ happyday placed a wager on race 4 circa twenty minutes after the race went off.
4/ This wager was refunded as per our past post rules.
5/ happyday claimed that he placed his wager on race 5 and not race 4.
6/ happyday’s wager according to our log files was placed on race 4.
7/ happyday spoke to a supervisor late on Monday night and the supervisor explained to him what the company position was on what appeared at first look to be a straight forward situation. happyday did not ask for his wager to be investigated – he immediately asked for his account to be closed!
8/ Our supervisor never hung up on happyday. As was explained to him on the phone, the wagering supervisor that he was speaking to was transferring him to the customer care department to take his details for his payment request.
9/ happyday hung up. (If one of the moderators would like to listen to the tape we would be more than happy to load it for them).
10/ Within minutes, a posting was made to the forum under this thread entitled, “WWTS is a ripoff book!!”
11/ Before, during and after race 4 at Northfield we have been corresponding with happyday, firstly regarding his request to be self-excluded from Wise Guy Casino and later to close his account.
You will notice that he has not once questioned the situation regarding race 4 at Northfield until 20 hours after the race was run and 20 hours after posting his dispute on the forum.
In the interim we received numerous requests to close his account such as, “If my account is not closed TOTALLY by tonight and my withdrawl sent tomorrow I am going to complain on every board and to every government agency I can find.”
Unfortunately such statements do not make it conducive for any sportsbook to go the extra mile for a player – which we always normally strive to do in any given situation.
Below are some email correspondences between our Customer Care group and happyday regarding this situation. Again, this is not normal practice for our company to post correspondence on a public forum, but considering the extenuating circumstances, we feel it’s necessary in this instance.
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/27/2003 12:32 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: RE: Last email
I have sent numerous emails that have been ignored over the last 12 hours about my account. I asked to have my account blocked from the casino and was told i could not do that. I then sent another email letting you know i would like to close my account totally in that case and have the balance sent to me via western union. Still no reply. This is my last email before we handle it on major wager, the rx, bettorsworld etc... I put in my request for withdrawal last night and am expecting it today.
XXXXXX
-----Original Message-----
From: "Customer Care" <Support@betwwts.com>
Sent: 10/27/2003 1:52 PM
To: XXXXXX
Subject: FW: RE: Last email [1160:938]
Dear XXXXXX,
Firstly I would like to sincerely apologize for the delayed response.
I have conversed with a Casino Specialist, and he has indicated to me it is your prerogative to have your account blocked.
Please provide the following information outlined below I will be very happy to ensure your request is processed within a timelier manner.
Amount
Mothers Maiden Name
Date Of birth
Favorite Color
City & State you expect your Payout.
Telephone contact during the day
If you have any reservations you may call to speak with me directly my extension is 1871 I will be available until 5:00 o'clock eastern. Or you may e-mail me and place ATTN Wendy as your subject.
Once again thank you for your patience and I sincerely apologize for the delay.
Regards,
Wendy
BetWWTS.com
Customer Care Specialist
1-800-238-9987
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/27/2003 11:41 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: RE: account closed
I want my god damn account closed right now!!!!This is the last email im sending.Iput in for a withdrawal last night and it wasnt done...If my account is not closed TOTALLY by tonight and my withdrawl sent tomorrow i am going to complain on every board and to every government agency i can find. I am also filing a complaint with the asic about you ripping me off. If the account is not deactivated tonite i will follow through with what i need to. Let me spell it out for you CLOSE THE GOD DAMN ACCOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I will never play with you again
XXXXXX
Customer Care <Support@betwwts.com> wrote:
Hello XXXXXX,
We're sorry to hear that you want your BETWWTS.com account closed. In accordance with your request the account has been made inactive, meaning that it has been closed without being deleted altogether. It can be reopened BY YOU ONLY at any time.
We are sincerely sorry that you are not pleased with some of the service you've received but we assure you that our intentions are good. If you would like a payout processed today, Oct. 28th, 2003, just send us a request specifying the amount, and also providing the answers to the security questions: mother's maiden name, date of birth and favorite color. There is no reason that we would not be able to process a payout for you today. Keep in mind that it would be your first payout and, according to company policy, it would have to be sent in the form of a cheque by Fedex or UPS (your choice) for address verification purposes and basically for your security.
We pride ourselves on being the best in the industry in every aspect and we greatly value each and every one of our customers. We are a licensed, regulated company that's been around for almost 13 years, and we plan to be here for many, many more. We hope you decide to stay on with us and let us make your future experiences rewarding and unmatched!!
Best Regards,
Eldon
Customer Care Specialist
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/28/2003 1:17 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: RE: account closed [1240:980]
What the **** is this shit?????????? I called yesterday and did the withdrawal and told it was processed. Now you tell me i have to request it again. Again i ask, what the **** is going on there? I have already posted on the boards about how you assholes stole 150.00 from me last night at horse racing but now it looks like i will be posting on the boards that wwts is slowpaying..If i dont hear back from a SUPERVISOR in the next hour im posting about the slowpay as i have now requested a withdrawal 2 times sunday night and last night and it still hasnt been sent.wtf?????????
-----Original Message-----
From: "Customer Care" <Support@betwwts.com>
Sent: 10/28/2003 2:01 PM
To: XXXXXX
Subject: FW: RE: account closed [1240:1039]
Hi XXXXXX,
Thank you for taking the time out to contact us via email.
Fed ex guarantees delivery within 24-48 hrs from the time processed. All withdrawals are processed between the hours of 8am and 12 noon from Monday to Friday. Your account history shows that your funds for the amount of $ XXXX was deducted at 9:17am this morning and your check has been issued via Fed ex.
Any questions,please contact us at 1-800-580-5558.
Our apologies for any inconvenience caused.
Regards
Natasha
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/28/2003 5:45 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: FW: horse wager # 12812249
just to let you know that since you made no attempt to rectify the situation that arose due to your mistake and me not getting credited for the horse wager i made i have had no choice but to go on the rx.com to post that your book steals from people. I will be going on major wager and bettorsworld as well as the other boards tonight if i dont hear back. If you check out the posts you will see it was a poor decision to not answer my emails or hang upon me on the phone when i tried to rectify this. I will continue to do this until it is addressed. you may want to pass this on to a COMPETENT supervisor who can address this before it snowballs
XXXXXX
-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Received: 10/28/2003 6:25 PM
To: "CSVisneticAccess" <CSVisneticAccess@BETWWTS.com>
Subject: FW: where is my tracking number
WHERE IS MY GOD DAMN TRACKING NUMBER???????? You will not get away with ripping me off with the horse wager as well. Just wait til saturday and sunday
XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------
At BetWWTS.com we always look to work with our customers to resolve any disputes amicably and come to a swift resolution that is fair – if you let us and explain what the problem is.
Unfortunately we do not monitor the forums twenty-four seven. What we do provide to all of our customers is twenty-four seven customer support either by e-mail to support@betwwts.com or toll free by calling 1-888-609-9450. We can only deal with a problem that is brought directly to our attention as we are not in the business of hearsay, rumor or insinuation.
What was brought to our attention is that happyday wanted his account closed NOW – that was loud and clear from his correspondence.
We did not steal his money, we did not hang up on him, we did not avoid answering his e-mails and we have not slow paid him.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>First off, please note that we do not like doing this in a public forum, but see no other way to set the record straight.
1/ We were experiencing problems with our horse racing program which meant that some races were left open past post time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So let me get this right...you are stating on the record that your Horse Racing Software has bugs. If so then you should do the right thing and refund the money and move on. This is cazy to think that the readers of the RX will trust your software for horses and for that matter all your bookmaking software.
Just my 2 cents......
1/ We were experiencing problems with our horse racing program which meant that some races were left open past post time.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So let me get this right...you are stating on the record that your Horse Racing Software has bugs. If so then you should do the right thing and refund the money and move on. This is cazy to think that the readers of the RX will trust your software for horses and for that matter all your bookmaking software.
Just my 2 cents......
