Why would the average citizen need to own an AR-15?

[Acebb]

Just to be clear, when NY banned a certain class of weapons and made it so others have to register, the non-compliance rate was 50%

There are not enough state and local police officers to enforce a "you're going to jail if you possess this weapon" type law.

I mean, they can't go door-to-door and how would anyone know if I have an M&P 15 or a Springfield .223?

 

[PatsFan1283]

#4-5 is not really something I'd want the federal government being in control of. State governments would probably be just as bad.

Do you realize how vague a term "mental illness" is? Depression is very subjective and a lot of people go through things in life. Responsible gun owners would probably not seek mental help given this new big government apparatus aimed at curbing gun violence.

I needed therapy after the Pats lost SB42, now I can't own a gun?

 

[HarryCaray]

Well, 88% of all handguns in circulation are semi-automatic. Semi-automatic pistols are never, ever going to be banned.

So, when 50% of people decide "I'm not listening to this proposal" you are ok with shootouts with local police, correct?

I have no idea. I wasn't talking about handguns.

I don't care enough to continue this argument. You win. I am not well-informed enough to argue intelligently so I'll just stop. Was just throwing in my 2 cents. I will make sure not to do that in the future unless my knowledge is strong enough to survive cross-examination.

 

[Acebb]

Added to the citizen non-compliance:

[h=1]Sheriffs Refuse to Enforce Laws on Gun Control[/h]
Some sheriffs, like Sheriff Cooke, are refusing to enforce the laws, saying that they are too vague and violate Second Amendment rights. Many more say that enforcement will be “a very low priority,” as several sheriffs put it. All but seven of the 62 elected sheriffs in Colorado signed on in May to a federal lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the statutes.
The resistance of sheriffs in Colorado is playing out in other states, raising questions about whether tougher rules passed since Newtown will have a muted effect in parts of the American heartland, where gun ownership is common and grass-roots opposition to tighter restrictions is high.

 

[wabashwonders]

And now you make it personal instead of sticking to facts. Very predictable.

Explain Waco to me then. Explain how it's ok to shoot a Federal Agent serving a search warrant. I want to hear your perspective.

It’s not ok but that’s not what happened. Federal agents did not show up to serve a warrant that day. They showed up to ambush the community. That’s a fact! A simple serving of a warrant does not entail hundreds of agents along with military personnel and a code name for the operation that took months of planning. That is what happened.

 

[Acebb]

I have no idea. I wasn't talking about handguns.

I don't care enough to continue this argument. You win. I am not well-informed enough to argue intelligently so I'll just stop. Was just throwing in my 2 cents. I will make sure not to do that in the future unless my knowledge is strong enough to survive cross-examination.

Heh.

I'm just giving you a bit of grief. I am interested in the opinions of the other side because I admit the solutions seem to be very tough to get to.

 

[HarryCaray]

Stop arguing with people Harry. It's a forum, you don't get to have an opinion.

Stop it. The problem is not that you give your opinion, it is that you are too argumentative about every little fucking thing. If I said the sky was blue you would argue against it to the death.

Let me ask you this. How many people on here have given you this same criticism? At some point, are you even willing to examine the possibility that it is you and not all of us?

 

[PatsFan1283]

This guy argues for a "Gun Violence Restraining Order"

I suppose it might be a good idea if we can implement it properly. I'm still at a bit of a loss as to how this nut in Parkland wasn't at least temporarily committed to a state hospital.

The NR changed their layout today so I dunno where the comment sections went but people were talking about all the potential problems that would come about with this.

I think anything that goes too far into trying to diagnose who should and shouldn't own a gun is going to be a disaster.

The current law with involuntary admission to an inpatient facility seems like the best you can do.

 

[HarryCaray]

Heh.

I'm just giving you a bit of grief. I am interested in the opinions of the other side because I admit the solutions seem to be very tough to get to.

I don't have the answers. It's just that something doesn't feel right about a Nicholas Cruz type being able to legally and easily get his hands on a killing machine like that, and I feel like gun proponents can compromise a little bit to help make that happen and still be able to fully protect themselves.

 

[Enfuego]

It’s not ok but that’s not what happened. Federal agents did not show up to serve a warrant that day. They showed up to ambush the community. That’s a fact! A simple serving of a warrant does not entail hundreds of agents along with military personnel and a code name for the operation that took months of planning. That is what happened.

If your facts were correct, I may agree with you but your facts are wrong. Here are the facts believe them or not.

1) The ATF was serving a warrant based on more than 100 Branch Davidians amassing illegal firearms to include AR-15's, AK-47's and grenades.

2) The ATF were armed with search and arrest warrants.

3) 76 agents were part of the operation dubbed "Operation Trojan Horse."

4) There were no military members involved in the initial ATF raid on the ranch. In fact, the U.S. Military cannot participate in this kind of raid anyway.

5) The Davidians were tipped off about the raid and when the ATF approached the property, they were fired on by the Davidians through windows and walls of the compound etc.

These are facts. Believe whatever you want. You can call that an ambush or whatever. I call it serving a warrant and being shot at in the process of serving the warrant. It's called murder.

What would have happened had Koresh just come out and talked to the lead agent like a grown adult?

 

[Enfuego]

Stop it. The problem is not that you give your opinion, it is that you are too argumentative about every little fucking thing. If I said the sky was blue you would argue against it to the death.

Let me ask you this. How many people on here have given you this same criticism? At some point, are you even willing to examine the possibility that it is you and not all of us?

Stop arguing.

 

[HarryCaray]

Stop arguing.

OMFG man just take the fucking criticism to heart, maybe consider trying to change some things (or not, idrgaf). No one is engaging you in any type of argument right now. I am TELLING you that pretty much EVERYONE HERE thinks you are TOO ARGUMENTATIVE. Do with that info what you will, and stop acting like a 12 year old. It's embarrassing.

This is like an "I know you are but what am I" type of response.

 

[Enfuego]

OMFG man just take the fucking criticism to heart, maybe consider trying to change some things (or not, idrgaf). No one is engaging you in any type of argument right now. I am TELLING you that pretty much EVERYONE HERE thinks you are TOO ARGUMENTATIVE. Do with that info what you will, and stop acting like a 12 year old. It's embarrassing.

This is like an "I know you are but what am I" type of response.

Your criticism means a lot to me. I'll stop arguing now because you said it. Had it been another poster, maybe not. Since you said it, I'll take it to heart.

 

[HarryCaray]

Stop arguing with people Harry. It's a forum, you don't get to have an opinion.

This is literally a response I would expect from a butt hurt 16 year old female.

 

[HarryCaray]

Your criticism means a lot to me. I'll stop arguing now because you said it. Had it been another poster, maybe not. Since you said it, I'll take it to heart.

Alright man, sounds good. I'm gonna leave this thread now, k?

 

[Enfuego]

This is literally a response I would expect from a butt hurt 16 year old female.

Stop trying to cause arguments Harry.

 

[Albatross]

At the end of the day I could see a ban on ARs. I don't own one anymore, but have to say they are a good time. I would think most gun loving Americans could care less about ARs.

The government will not and can not come after my pistols, shotguns, and rifles. And frankly to the folks that don't know much about guns....I can do more damage with my .22 than any gun on the market. Perfect gun....highly accurate, ammo light to carry, and cheap.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Irrespective of how people feel about 2A, I do think it is possible we see a change in American's feelings towards gun ownership. With social media, the kids are really starting to speak out and that is going to be a tough tide to stem.

The public being less than enthusiastic about gun ownership would not be that big of a trend reversal, in the 60's about 60% of Americans supported gun control after the steep rise in crime. Then the NRA got better at lobbying/advocating in the late 70's and that pretty much gave us the modern acceptance that we have today.

How all of this would manifest itself in policy though I really have no idea.

 

[PatsFan1283]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...uns-they-have-a-point/?utm_term=.5ba2e6f52a31

Pretty good article on mental health, that's probably the most generic/popular thing people say. "Screen for mental health issues"

But it isn't that simple

 

[919]

You seem blissfully unaware that the VT shooter used handguns and killed 32 people.

Do you even watch the news bro?

Can you imagine the death toll if he had an AR?