Why would the average citizen need to own an AR-15?

[Willie99]

The Right to Bear Arms

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A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

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the second amendment is about securing and protecting personal freedoms from tyranny, something that will never be obsolete

If people want to change the constitution, there's only one acceptable process, a constitutional amendment. We are either a nation of laws or we're not and you can just do shit as you please.

There have been mass murders throughout the history of mankind, long before the term assault weapons became a political pawn.

does anybody really believe we're going to prevent sick minds and criminals from acquiring guns? Seriously, what do people want to happen? what do they think can happen?

thinking we're going to somehow eliminate guns from society is as silly as thinking we can deport 12 or 20 million illegals, it's just not happening so start looking for real solutions and stop chasing fairy tales

 

[Enfuego]

You just want to constantly fucking argue always about fucking everything. Don't play coy, obviously that amendment was written in a completely different time by people who couldn't even begin to fathom the way the world would be in 200 years.

a) the king of England isn't showing up at your door to take you back to the motherland anytime soon and b) it was written in the days of the musket

Civilians no longer need guns to protect themselves against the federal government, that's fucking ludicrous.

The original intent of the amendment has been warped as reasoning for civilians to stockpile assault weapons with no good reason other than "the constitution says we can".

You're such a weird guy. We're sitting here on a forum discussing the 2nd Amendment and now you pull out the "arguing with me" card. There are two of us talking HC. Are you arguing with me then? Or, are you discussing the 2nd Amendment with me like two grown adults? Why do you always turn it personal? This shit isn't personal to me. You always turn it into a cry fest for whatever reason.

Not even going to discuss the 2nd Amendment with you anymore. I don't want you to think I'm "arguing" with you. So, you're right HC, the 2nd Amendment isn't relevant anymore. You're absolutely correct in everything you say. You've proven me wrong all along.

 

[HarryCaray]

You're such a weird guy. We're sitting here on a forum discussing the 2nd Amendment and now you pull out the "arguing with me" card. There are two of us talking HC. Are you arguing with me then? Or, are you discussing the 2nd Amendment with me like two grown adults? Why do you always turn it personal? This shit isn't personal to me. You always turn it into a cry fest for whatever reason.

Not even going to discuss the 2nd Amendment with you anymore. I don't want you to think I'm "arguing" with you. So, you're right HC, the 2nd Amendment isn't relevant anymore. You're absolutely correct in everything you say. You've proven me wrong all along.

If this is how you act in real life, 0% chance you have even a single friend.

 

[Enfuego]

If this is how you act in real life, 0% chance you have even a single friend.

Kind of like talking to your friend and then saying "stop arguing with me" and walking off? Is that how your relationships work?

 

[Enfuego]

The Right to Bear Arms

---

A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

--------------------------------------------

the second amendment is about securing and protecting personal freedoms from tyranny, something that will never be obsolete

If people want to change the constitution, there's only one acceptable process, a constitutional amendment. We are either a nation of laws or we're not and you can just do shit as you please.

There have been mass murders throughout the history of mankind, long before the term assault weapons became a political pawn.

does anybody really believe we're going to prevent sick minds and criminals from acquiring guns? Seriously, what do people want to happen? what do they think can happen?

thinking we're going to somehow eliminate guns from society is as silly as thinking we can deport 12 or 20 million illegals, it's just not happening so start looking for real solutions and stop chasing fairy tales

It's irrelevant today Willie. Don't question Harry.

 

[statman03]

The person who needs an AR15 is anybody who gets in a gunfight. I have been in dozens of gunfights when I served with the US infantry in Viet Nam. It is an invaluable weapon and far surpasses anything else you could use. The combination of rapid firepower and quick reloading is not matchable by any other weapon currently available. Yes that was war and this is not but nobody knows what tomorrow may bring. Al Quaida terrorists, motorcycle gangs, ms13 gangs, just plain criminal gangs or just criminals there are a lot of bad actors out there. You never know what is going to happen in the future but you could be involved in a gunfight tomorrow. If you are, especially with multiple assailants, you are going to wish you had an AR15 with plenty of ammo. Remember the boy scout motto, Be prepared.

 

[Enfuego]

The person who needs an AR15 is anybody who gets in a gunfight. I have been in dozens of gunfights when I served with the US infantry in Viet Nam. It is an invaluable weapon and far surpasses anything else you could use. The combination of rapid firepower and quick reloading is not matchable by any other weapon currently available. Yes that was war and this is not but nobody knows what tomorrow may bring. Al Quaida terrorists, motorcycle gangs, ms13 gangs, just plain criminal gangs or just criminals there are a lot of bad actors out there. You never know what is going to happen in the future but you could be involved in a gunfight tomorrow. If you are, especially with multiple assailants, you are going to wish you had an AR15 with plenty of ammo. Remember the boy scout motto, Be prepared.

How many times have you been shot at since Vietnam?

 

[PatsFan1283]

The change comes when we figure out why kids and adults do this. That's how you initiate positive change. Not take away guns just because.

Aren't you saying no more AR-15's? How isn't that taking away guns?

If we're truly worried about gov't tyranny then that is an argument in favor of AR-15's. As the gov't is far more militarily advanced now than ever before and if there was any chance of fighting back against them, it would require the best weaponry possible.

 

[Enfuego]

Aren't you saying no more AR-15's? How isn't that taking away guns?

If we're truly worried about gov't tyranny then that is an argument in favor of AR-15's. As the gov't is far more militarily advanced now than ever before and if there was any chance of fighting back against them, it would require the best weaponry possible.

I'm a defender of the 2nd Amendment PatsFan but Harry is right in this regard. The 2nd Amendment was drafted without a thought in mind about what the future would hold in regards to advanced weaponry.

You've read through 10 pages here and nobody has provided a reasonable answer as to why they need an AR-15. I believe we can adhere to the 2nd Amendment without giving people a weapon like this when there isn't a need to have one. I want a grenade too...why can't I have one?

I'm not worried about government tyranny, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I am?

 

[PatsFan1283]

I'm a defender of the 2nd Amendment PatsFan but Harry is right in this regard. The 2nd Amendment was drafted without a thought in mind about what the future would hold in regards to advanced weaponry.

You've read through 10 pages here and nobody has provided a reasonable answer as to why they need an AR-15. I believe we can adhere to the 2nd Amendment without giving people a weapon like this when there isn't a need to have one. I want a grenade too...why can't I have one?

I'm not worried about government tyranny, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I am?

In post #239 you reply to HC saying that 2A has no relevance in modern times. You say how does gov't tyranny have no relevance? That would indicate you think gov't tyranny can be an issue. Whether it is or isn't an issue is very subjective, but I do think if people think it is an issue then let's be honest, we're gonna need all the AR-15's we can get our hands on to fight the modern day gov't.

I think GuitarJosh answer was fine, he wants the 100% best chance at defending himself, his rights, his property and his livelihood in worst case scenario events. And he feels the AR-15 does that.

But if we got rid of AR-15, less people would die. People should be honest about that.

It's a freedom vs safety trade-off. No free lunches. You get 1 and give up the other.

 

[Enfuego]

In post #239 you reply to HC saying that 2A has no relevance in modern times. You say how does gov't tyranny have no relevance? That would indicate you think gov't tyranny can be an issue. Whether it is or isn't an issue is very subjective, but I do think if people think it is an issue then let's be honest, we're gonna need all the AR-15's we can get our hands on to fight the modern day gov't.

I think GuitarJosh answer was fine, he wants the 100% best chance at defending himself, his rights, his property and his livelihood in worst case scenario events. And he feels the AR-15 does that.

But if we got rid of AR-15, less people would die. People should be honest about that.

It's a freedom vs safety trade-off. No free lunches. You get 1 and give up the other.

I don't feel government tyranny is an issue now but I guess it could be in the future. I guess that's possible but far fetched. In that regard, the amendment is relevant.

You have a better chance of getting killed by a wasp or a bee than you do by masked intruders in your house. To stockpile your house full of weapons because of this unlikely scenario is so odd to me but I don't look down on guys that do it. If this far fetched scenario where to happen, a handgun or shotgun will work just fine. I don't think masked intruders are typically military trained guerrillas that are going to engage with you in hand-to-hand combat until death.

 

[wabashwonders]

I don't feel government tyranny is an issue now but I guess it could be in the future. I guess that's possible but far fetched. In that regard, the amendment is relevant.

You have a better chance of getting killed by a wasp or a bee than you do by masked intruders in your house. To stockpile your house full of weapons because of this unlikely scenario is so odd to me but I don't look down on guys that do it. If this far fetched scenario where to happen, a handgun or shotgun will work just fine. I don't think masked intruders are typically military trained guerrillas that are going to engage with you in hand-to-hand combat until death.

Im sure the residents of Mt. Carmel 25 years ago would disagree with this statement.

 

[Acebb]

But if we got rid of AR-15, less people would die. People should be honest about that.

It's a freedom vs safety trade-off. No free lunches. You get 1 and give up the other.

When the Federal Assault Weapons ban was in place, zero lives were saved. None. It had no impact on crime and so saying if we got rid of the AR-15 fewer people would die is kind of unicorn thinking.

 

[Enfuego]

Im sure the residents of Mt. Carmel 25 years ago would disagree with this statement.

Haha, I don't think Federal Agents serving an arrest warrant is quite the same as Joe Blow crackhead breaking into your condo. I could be wrong though.

 

[Enfuego]

When the Federal Assault Weapons ban was in place, zero lives were saved. None. It had no impact on crime and so saying if we got rid of the AR-15 fewer people would die is kind of unicorn thinking.

I agree with this it's just why do we need them I guess is the question? What's the point? I don't really care either way I guess.

 

[Acebb]

I'm a defender of the 2nd Amendment PatsFan but Harry is right in this regard. The 2nd Amendment was drafted without a thought in mind about what the future would hold in regards to advanced weaponry.

Well, Harry is 100% wrong and so are you.

When the 2nd Amendment was written, I could have cannons and my own private army. Further, the founders had the most advanced weapons available to them.

The founders didn't envision the Internet either. Since people use the Internet to recruit jihadi's and eat Tide pods, I guess we need to shut it down.

 

[PatsFan1283]

When the Federal Assault Weapons ban was in place, zero lives were saved. None. It had no impact on crime and so saying if we got rid of the AR-15 fewer people would die is kind of unicorn thinking.

Maybe not specifically to the AR-15 but you don't think it would be harder to kill so many people in all of these mass shootings with significant gun control legislation?

I'm not even for all that, but making it harder to obtain guns would likely prevent a lot of deaths, especially mass shootings.

 

[Acebb]

I agree with this it's just why do we need them I guess is the question? What's the point? I don't really care either way I guess.

We don't allow people to do things in a free society with the "need" evaluation. It is a dumb question.

 

[Acebb]

Maybe not specifically to the AR-15 but you don't think it would be harder to kill so many people in all of these mass shootings with significant gun control legislation?

I'm not even for all that, but making it harder to obtain guns would likely prevent a lot of deaths, especially mass shootings.

When the federal assault weapons ban was in place, there were more gun crimes/homicides. In fact, significantly more.

So, what we are talking about is addressing a very unique and modern sub-set of shootings. Taking away Guitar Josh's AR-15 does zero to address the problem.

 

[wabashwonders]

Haha, I don't think Federal Agents serving an arrest warrant is quite the same as Joe Blow crackhead breaking into your condo. I could be wrong though.

No it’s not, it’s worse and it happened only 25 years ago. Are you saying that kind of thing can’t happen again? And don’t make it sound like Waco was about the government agents serving an arrest warrant. That was an attack by the government and it could happen again someday.