Why would the average citizen need to own an AR-15?

[Acebb]

Most gun people just completely refuse to engage in any constructive conversation about change. Just a blanket "you ain't taking my guns" with a reasoning of "because the Constitution".

It's like a sickness. And btw it makes you look really fucking dumb.

I'd argue that someone who doesn't own firearms and has no relevant experience in the area looks dumb screeching about it.

Anyway, here is my contribution to the dialogue:

Say that starting tomorrow at 9am it is illegal for any firearm to be sold anywhere in America. First, the non-compliance rate will be 10% (being generous to the gun ban side) so you will have several hundred thousand guns exchanging hands. Second, what do you plan to do with the 300+ million and over 1 trillion rounds of ammo in circulation? You can’t collect it, confiscation isn’t an option and so mass shootings will take place. If you try and collect it, tens of thousands of people are going to die, including many, many state and local police officers.

Finally, even if we got to this magic utopia where we didn’t sell guns and there were fewer in circulation (you can still own guns in Australia), rape, robbery, and assaults are going to go up (as happened in the UK and Australia). Which is something I’m not trading my firearms for. I am never, ever, going to say it is just fine for someone to kick in my door and rape my wife or harm the children because some dipstick who has never held a firearm feels “safer.”

So, tell me, what, specifically, would you like to do to address the problem?

 

[JustinCruise]

Enfuego talking in circles.

Arguing with anyone and everyone just for the sake of arguing


In the past couple pages he has disagreed with guys who say they want gun control laws and also argued with guys who say they don't.


Lol

 

[PatsFan1283]

When the federal assault weapons ban was in place, there were more gun crimes/homicides. In fact, significantly more.

So, what we are talking about is addressing a very unique and modern sub-set of shootings. Taking away Guitar Josh's AR-15 does zero to address the problem.

Well, there was more crime/homicide per capita in the 70's and 80's when it wasn't in place. Although I don't think it had much to do with that.

If we had significantly less guns, we would have significantly less gun deaths. And people can say the black market would be more robust but it is still harder to obtain a gun on the black market than legally.

I'm not even for all this, but I don't see how 4.5% of the worlds population owning 50% of the guns (USA) doesn't contribute to our huge amount of gun deaths.

We're a country that wants legalized guns and there really isn't any going back now as so many are already in circulation, so we should just accept this besides minor policy changes at most.

I'm not really a big fan of mental health evaluation increasing for gun control either, as that can get very subjective very fast.

 

[Acebb]

If we had significantly less guns, we would have significantly less gun deaths. And people can say the black market would be more robust but it is still harder to obtain a gun on the black market than legally.

And we'd have more rapes, robberies, and assaults. I'm not making that trade.

 

[Enfuego]

No it’s not, it’s worse and it happened only 25 years ago. Are you saying that kind of thing can’t happen again? And don’t make it sound like Waco was about the government agents serving an arrest warrant. That was an attack by the government and it could happen again someday.

You and I won't agree on this topic so it's pointless talking about it. If a Federal Agent comes to my house to serve a warrant, I am not going to pull out a gun and shoot the agent and then make myself out to the be the victim of the Federal Government.

 

[Enfuego]

We don't allow people to do things in a free society with the "need" evaluation. It is a dumb question.

Yeah, true.

 

[Acebb]

[h=1]Thousands Of Americans Are Gunned Down Each Year, But Few Die By Assault-Style Rifle[/h]

Those deaths account for about 2 percent of the 6,153 gun deaths and less than 1 percent of the 12,560 gun injuries the Gun Violence Archive has counted so far this year. This tally consists largely of homicides and assaults, but also includes suicides that were part of a murder-suicide. It also counts accidental deaths, the majority of which involve handguns, not rifles.

 

[exploited17]

Stop worrying about guns and worry about people. More focus on mental health and actual values. More parents spending time with their kids and actually teaching them about being a human. Focusing on guns is the simplistic solution. End.......of.....story

 

[Enfuego]

Enfuego talking in circles.

Arguing with anyone and everyone just for the sake of arguing


In the past couple pages he has disagreed with guys who say they want gun control laws and also argued with guys who say they don't.


Lol

Nobody is arguing junior. Let the adults talk.

My stance is clear on this issue but let me spell it out again for you because it's morning and I know you're kind of foggy. New gun legislation won't help any of these situations. But is there a need for a guy like you to have an AR-15? I don't believe so but that's not for me to determine. I don't care either way. Not having them won't stop the violence.

Pretty simple right? Do you need a diagram? Are you a visual learner?

 

[PatsFan1283]

I'd argue that someone who doesn't own firearms and has no relevant experience in the area looks dumb screeching about it.

Anyway, here is my contribution to the dialogue:

Say that starting tomorrow at 9am it is illegal for any firearm to be sold anywhere in America. First, the non-compliance rate will be 10% (being generous to the gun ban side) so you will have several hundred thousand guns exchanging hands. Second, what do you plan to do with the 300+ million and over 1 trillion rounds of ammo in circulation? You can’t collect it, confiscation isn’t an option and so mass shootings will take place. If you try and collect it, tens of thousands of people are going to die, including many, many state and local police officers.

Finally, even if we got to this magic utopia where we didn’t sell guns and there were fewer in circulation (you can still own guns in Australia), rape, robbery, and assaults are going to go up (as happened in the UK and Australia). Which is something I’m not trading my firearms for. I am never, ever, going to say it is just fine for someone to kick in my door and rape my wife or harm the children because some dipstick who has never held a firearm feels “safer.”

So, tell me, what, specifically, would you like to do to address the problem?

I agree with all that. Practically speaking whether you agree with the current law or not, there isn't much you can change about it.

I personally think you should be able to carry regardless of what people thought 200 years ago though. This isn't "Minority Report" with Tom Cruise, the cops don't get there right before the crime happens to prevent it. People should be able to protect themselves.

But there is collateral damage that doesn't occur in other countries. Our per capita rate crushes other developed nations and the fact we have 50% of the worlds guns is a big reason why.

 

[wabashwonders]

You and I won't agree on this topic so it's pointless talking about it. If a Federal Agent comes to my house to serve a warrant, I am not going to pull out a gun and shoot the agent and then make myself out to the be the victim of the Federal Government.

You are right, we can’t agree because you can’t agree with anyone on here. And you actually think Waco was about federal agents just serving a warrant, so it’s obvious you know nothing about it.

 

[Enfuego]

You are right, we can’t agree because you can’t agree with anyone on here. And you actually think Waco was about federal agents just serving a warrant, so it’s obvious you know nothing about it.

And now you make it personal instead of sticking to facts. Very predictable.

Explain Waco to me then. Explain how it's ok to shoot a Federal Agent serving a search warrant. I want to hear your perspective.

 

[Acebb]

[FONT=&quot]Over the last 5 years for which data are available, rifles were used in 2.5% of all murders in the U.S. Handguns were used in 48%. In mass shootings over several decades, handguns were used most often.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]^Though there isn't much argument this is changing specifically related to school shootings.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[HarryCaray]

I'd argue that someone who doesn't own firearms and has no relevant experience in the area looks dumb screeching about it.

Anyway, here is my contribution to the dialogue:

Say that starting tomorrow at 9am it is illegal for any firearm to be sold anywhere in America. First, the non-compliance rate will be 10% (being generous to the gun ban side) so you will have several hundred thousand guns exchanging hands. Second, what do you plan to do with the 300+ million and over 1 trillion rounds of ammo in circulation? You can’t collect it, confiscation isn’t an option and so mass shootings will take place. If you try and collect it, tens of thousands of people are going to die, including many, many state and local police officers.

Finally, even if we got to this magic utopia where we didn’t sell guns and there were fewer in circulation (you can still own guns in Australia), rape, robbery, and assaults are going to go up (as happened in the UK and Australia). Which is something I’m not trading my firearms for. I am never, ever, going to say it is just fine for someone to kick in my door and rape my wife or harm the children because some dipstick who has never held a firearm feels “safer.”

So, tell me, what, specifically, would you like to do to address the problem?

First off, I'm not screeching, it's a forum and I stated my opinion. Stop being a prick.

Secondly, not sure how you jumped all the way to the conclusion that I was suggesting every type of gun be completely banned and confiscated. The thread was specifically about assault rifles.

So, I guess my plan would be.

1. Ban on all semi-automatic weapons. There is no need for civilians to own this type of arsenal.
2. Turn in period where people can exchange these in for some sort of financial compensation.
3. After turn in period, mandatory minimum for possessing anything on the banned list
4. Increased stringency in screening for mental health issues when purchasing ANY firearm
5. Enhance database tracking of people with known higher threat level, prevent purchase of any guns by these people

Keep your handguns and shotguns to protect your family from the trove of vikings that is apparently roaming around your city, kicking down doors and raping people's wives.

The point is the semi-automatic weapons make it easier to kill more people faster, and it's way too easy for a mentally ill person to get one in their hands. There has got to be some sensible middle ground.

 

[Enfuego]

You are right, we can’t agree because you can’t agree with anyone on here. And you actually think Waco was about federal agents just serving a warrant, so it’s obvious you know nothing about it.

The Waco siege was the siege of a compound belonging to the Branch Davidians, carried out by American federal and Texasstate law enforcement, as well as the U.S. military, between February 28 and April 19, 1993.[SUP][4][/SUP] The Branch Davidians, a sect that separated in 1955 from the Seventh-day Adventist Church, was led by David Koresh and was headquartered at Mount Carmel Center ranch in the community of Axtell, Texas,[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] 13 miles (21 kilometers) east-northeast of Waco. The group was suspected of weapons violations, causing a search and arrest warrant to be obtained by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF).

The incident began when the ATF attempted to raid the ranch. An intense gun battle erupted, resulting in the deaths of four government agents and six Branch Davidians.

 

[PatsFan1283]

And we'd have more rapes, robberies, and assaults. I'm not making that trade.

Agreed, but I don't know how "Gun control wouldn't decrease gun deaths" became an actual saying. I mean, yeah it would if the gun control was severe enough.

I think it's just an easier argument for politicians to make than saying "Look we can't legislate utopia"

 

[Enfuego]

First off, I'm not screeching, it's a forum and I stated my opinion. Stop being a prick.

Secondly, not sure how you jumped all the way to the conclusion that I was suggesting every type of gun be completely banned and confiscated. The thread was specifically about assault rifles.

So, I guess my plan would be.

1. Ban on all semi-automatic weapons. There is no need for civilians to own this type of arsenal.
2. Turn in period where people can exchange these in for some sort of financial compensation.
3. After turn in period, mandatory minimum for possessing anything on the banned list
4. Increased stringency in screening for mental health issues when purchasing ANY firearm
5. Enhance database tracking of people with known higher threat level, prevent purchase of any guns by these people

Keep your handguns and shotguns to protect your family from the trove of vikings that is apparently roaming around your city, kicking down doors and raping people's wives.

The point is the semi-automatic weapons make it easier to kill more people faster, and it's way too easy for a mentally ill person to get one in their hands. There has got to be some sensible middle ground.

Stop arguing with people Harry. It's a forum, you don't get to have an opinion.

But I do agree with all your initiatives. Well said.

 

[Acebb]

This guy argues for a "Gun Violence Restraining Order"

I suppose it might be a good idea if we can implement it properly. I'm still at a bit of a loss as to how this nut in Parkland wasn't at least temporarily committed to a state hospital.

 

[Acebb]

First off, I'm not screeching, it's a forum and I stated my opinion. Stop being a prick.

Secondly, not sure how you jumped all the way to the conclusion that I was suggesting every type of gun be completely banned and confiscated. The thread was specifically about assault rifles.

So, I guess my plan would be.

1. Ban on all semi-automatic weapons. There is no need for civilians to own this type of arsenal.
2. Turn in period where people can exchange these in for some sort of financial compensation.
3. After turn in period, mandatory minimum for possessing anything on the banned list
4. Increased stringency in screening for mental health issues when purchasing ANY firearm
5. Enhance database tracking of people with known higher threat level, prevent purchase of any guns by these people

Keep your handguns and shotguns to protect your family from the trove of vikings that is apparently roaming around your city, kicking down doors and raping people's wives.

The point is the semi-automatic weapons make it easier to kill more people faster, and it's way too easy for a mentally ill person to get one in their hands. There has got to be some sensible middle ground.

Well, 88% of all handguns in circulation are semi-automatic. Semi-automatic pistols are never, ever going to be banned.

So, when 50% of people decide "I'm not listening to this proposal" you are ok with shootouts with local police, correct?

 

[Acebb]

Agreed, but I don't know how "Gun control wouldn't decrease gun deaths" became an actual saying. I mean, yeah it would if the gun control was severe enough.

It probably would, after we'd lose about 50,000-150,000 in failed confiscation efforts.