What was a worse terrorist attack?

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Eaxactly. So if you are faced with sending your sons off to fight these people or ending it swiftly for BOTH SIDES, which are you going to chose?

In Japanese culture we have much different views on life and death. Something you Westerners can't understand. You approach this problem by thinking "if I was a Japanese I'd just surrender and let the Americans come in".
 

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Mr. Tananka today in the US and probably in Japan most people have no idea what really went on during the war. Only the most broad facts are common knowledge. Mostly scholars or actual vets know of the unbeliveable ferocity of the Japanese military and their resolve to fight until the death. There is no way Japan would have surrendered when it did if Truman had'nt ordered the dropping of Little Boy and Fat Man. As it was there was an attempted last minute coup to stop Hirohito from surrendering, which is another story.


wil.
 

I am sorry for using the "R" word - and NOTHING EL
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hard to top hitler mudering 6 million jews or the deplorable acts saddam (and his sons) pulled off.

on this list - hard to leave off idi amin and "mr. il" in north korea.

hard to top these terrorist attacks. yes, they were on their own people - but they are still terrorist attacks.
 

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Wink - Hitler yes. But the rest although extremelely brutal cannot compare to what happened in China and Japan during the war. There is just no way to compare the murder of millions, even Saddam does'nt compare. here is an exerpt about the fate of 8 American POWs in 1945.

UKUOKA, Japan "I could never again wear a white smock," says Dr. Toshio Tono, dressed in a white running jacket at his hospital and recalling events of 50 years ago. "It's because the prisoners thought that we were doctors, since they could see the white smocks, that they didn't struggle. They never dreamed they would be dissected."

The prisoners were eight American airmen, knocked out of the sky over southern Japan during the waning months of World War U, and then torn apart organ by organ while they were still alive.

What occurred here 50 years ago this month, at the anatomy department of Kyushu University, has been largely forgotten in Japan and is virtually unknown in the United States. American prisoners of war were subjected to horrific medical experiments. All of the prisoners died. Most of the physicians and asistants then did their best to hide the evidence of what they had done.

Fukuoka is midway between Hiroshima and Nagasaki, cities that are planning elaborate ceremonies to mark the devastation caused by the United States'dropping the first atomic bombs. But neither Fukuoka nor the university plans to mark its own moment of infamy.

The gruesome experiments performed at the university were variations on research programs Japan conducted in territories it occupied during the war. In the most notorious of these efforts, the Japanese Imperial Army's Unit 731 killed thousands of Chinese and Russians held prisoner in Japanese-occupied Manchuria, in experiments to develop chemical and biological weapons.

Ken Yuasa, now a frail, 70-year-old physician in Tokyo, belonged to a military company stationed just south of Unit 731's base at Harbin, Manchuria. He recalls joining other doctors to watch as a prisoner was shot in the stomach, to give Japanese surgeons practice at extracting bullets.

While the victim was still alive, the doctors also practiced amputations.

"It wasn't just my experience," Yuasa says. "It was done everywhere."

Kyushu University stands out as the only site where Americans were incontrovertibly used in dissections and the only known site where experiments were done in Japan.

On May 5, 1945, an American B-29 bomber was flying with a dozen other aircraft after bombing Tachiaral Air Base in southwestern Japan and beginning the return flight to the island fortress of Guam.

Kinzou Kasuya, a 19-year-old Japanese pilot flying one of the Japanese fighters in pursuit of the Americans, rammed his aircraft into the fuselage of the B-29, destroying both planes.

No one knows for certain how many Americans were in the B-29; its crew had been hastily assembled on Guam. But villagers in Japan who witnessed the collision in the air saw about a dozen parachutes blossom.

One of the Americans died when the cords of his, parachute were severed by another Japanese plane. A second was alive when he reached the ground. He shot all but his last bullet at the villagers coming toward him, then used the last on himself.

Two others were quickly stabbed or shot to death.

At least nine were taken into custody.

B-29 crews were despised for the grim results of their raids. So some of the captives were beaten.

The local authorities assumed that the most knowledgeable was the cap! tain, Marvin Watkins. He was sent to Tokyo for interrogation, where was tortured but nonetheless survived the war.

Every available account asserts that a military physician and a colonel in a local regiment were the two key figures in what happened next. What happened cannot be easily explained. Perhaps caring for the Americans was an impossible burden, especially because some were injured. Perhaps food was scarce.

Whatever the reason, the colonel and doctor decided to make the prisoners available for medical experiments, and Kyushu University became a willing participant.

Teddy Ponczka was the first to be handed over to the doctors and their assistants. He had already been stabbed, in either his right shoulder or his chest. According to Tono, the American assumed he was about to be treated for the wound when he was taken to an operating room.

But the incision went far deeper. A doctor wanted to test surgery's effects on the respiratory system, so one lung was removed. The wound was stitched closed.

How Teddy Ponczka died is in dispute. According to U.S. military records, he was anesthetized during the operation, and then the gas mask was removed from his face. A surgeon, Taro Torisu, reopened the incision and reached into Ponczka's chest. In the bland words of the military report, Torisu "stopped the heart action. "

Tono remembers events differently. The first experiment was followed by a second, he says. Ponczka was given intravenous injections of sea water, to determine if sea water could be used as a substitute for sterile saline solution, used to increase blood volume in the wounded or those in'shock. Tono held the bottle of sea water. He says Ponczka bled to death.

Then it was the turn of the others.

The Japanese wanted to learn whether a patient could survive the partial loss of his liver. They wanted to learn if epilepsy could be controlled by removing part of the brain. According to U.S. military records, physicians also operated on -the prisoners' stomachs and necks.

All the Americans died.

wil.
 

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Kyushu U. is still there today. Funny, it's known for its medical school. I've never been there but I may have to go check it out next time I'm there.

Here's the English-language "Welcome from the President": http://www.kyushu-u.ac.jp/
 Kyushu University has a long and distinguished history. Its origins can be traced back to 1903 when the Fukuoka Medical College - the direct predecessor of the present Faculty of Medicine - was established and attached to Kyoto Imperial University. In 1911, the College was merged with the College of Engineering and officially opened as Kyushu Imperial University. Over the course of its history, Kyushu University has continued to expand. At present, there are ten Undergraduate Schools, fourteen Graduate Schools, fifteen Faculties, three Research Institutes and three Hospitals.

 In April, 2000, Kyushu University introduced a new organization of the Graduate School/Faculty - the first attempt of this kind at a Japanese university - as part of the overall reorganization of the university. The educational bodies (Undergraduate Schools and Graduate Schools) and the research bodies (Faculties) have become independent and all faculty members belong to the Faculties, the research bodies. In this way, we are able to promote more dynamic relationships between the educational bodies and the research bodies.

 In response to the changing global situation, Kyushu University is now constructing a new campus in Moto-oka on the western part of Fukuoka City. We plan to start the relocation of most of the engineering departments in 2005. The new campus will be open to society and students can enjoy studying and living on the new campus.

 I hope this bulletin provides you with useful and instructive information on what Kyushu University is, where it is going, and how you can best benefit from our various facilities. I heartily look forward to seeing you on our campuses.
 

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skeleton.gif


Over 300,000 Chinese were murdered by the Japs in NanKing -- by counting the number of people murdered in large scale massacres and individual killings.


wil.
 

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All cultures try to supress their bad bits, the difference is with places like Japan, they lost.

I'm from the UK and you don't hear much about the Boer war camps. The atrocities in Ireland that were so bad the population still has not reached British colonial 19th century levels, or the other things done, for practical purposes when Empire building.

Nearly forgot.
We are also the biggest drug dealers in history via the opium war in China.
Columbia are amateurs compared to the Brits.

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The Irish Famine of 1846-50 took as many as one million lives from hunger and disease, and changed the social and cultural structure of Ireland in profound ways. The Famine also spurred new waves of immigration, thus shaping the histories of the United States and Britain as well.

The combined forces of famine, disease and emigration depopulated the island; Ireland's population dropped from 8 million before the Famine to 5 million years after. If Irish nationalism was dormant for the first half of the nineteenth-century, the Famine convinced Irish citizens and Irish-Americans of the urgent need for political change. The Famine also changed centuries-old agricultural practices, hastening the end of the division of family estates into tiny lots capable of sustaining life only with a potato crop.

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~eas5e/Irish/Famine.html

Even today, there's nowhere near 8 million people in Ireland, its around 5 million.

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The biggest problem is: The Winners write history, so its not so easy to dig up the stuff that the UK and US have done over the years.

Also, the Western powers know that shooting and direct murder create bad publicity for a long time.
Starvation and disease are cheaper, and fade into history more easily.

[This message was edited by eek on February 24, 2004 at 07:32 AM.]
 

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Floyd: Ireland is a neutral country buddy. It's true that some of the Nazis top spies were members of the IRA but it's important to note that the country of Ireland were firmly on the side of the Allies, 60% of uniforms made and 40% of ammunition used were manafactured in Ireland. We werer fighting for our independance from Britain and you can't blame us for taking advantage of Englands struggle with the Germans. We got out in 1921, that should tell you something.


Not like the USA in WW2, when for years you guys tried to pretend that the world was not at war. Shame on the USA for that. Shame.

It's because of that that so many people loved to see shit like Sept. 11....
 

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Good post eek. Do you know that in the late 1840s Ireland was the agriculture capital of the world? The farmland is so good there that more crops were being harvested than anywhere in the British Empire...Canada, India, Australia etc. Carrots, turnips, corn etc.

All we were allowed to eat ourselves were potatoes and when they went bad the Brits let us starve to death. It's up there with the Jewish Holocaust in terms of the greatest mass murders in world history.
 

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Good reads Wil.

This war was horrible. Our troops were known to shove a pistol up someones azz too. All of these dissections are sickening. As for the original question, it's totally opiniated. Good reads though.

Thanks
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slurpee:
Do you as an American ever wonder why the rest of the world was cheering when the twin towers came down?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's two threads now where I've read you making this assertion. And it's bullshit.

Now, maybe parts of the Middle East were thrilled, maybe some in Asia and a handful in South America ... but to suggest that the rest of the world was laughing is complete crap. Generally, people do not laugh when there is dying going on ... I'd say even the most pro-Iraq War folks on this board didn't watch CNN and have a fit of the giggles every time a bomb was dropped. Get a grip.

As a Canadian, I can tell you that most of us here were in tears, or stunned, or at the very least, deeply moved. I'll concede that we had simultaneous thoughts of 'ah, saw that coming' but to suggest that people 'laughed' is unbelievably insensitive and outright wrong.
 

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my point is that on every continent on earth there was at least one country that made no hiding of the fact that they loved it.

From Cuba to Peru to Rwanda to Yugoslavia to Vietnam to.....you get my point.

I was in Canada that day too and I don't mind admitting that I cried on that day. I don't mean to asser that the USA deserved that: nobody deserves shit like that.

But c'mon, you think that by going and stealing all of Iraqs oil that makes another terrorist attack more likely or less likely?
 

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Wil -- Jesus. Kinda makes you wonder how life would be had the patriarchy not taken over.

Slurp -- if you truly believe that 'nobody deserves shit like that' then how can you come into this forum, consisting largely of Americans, and say that we laughed at them? I mean, come on, that's too much.

I agree with your assertions that the Bush admin's determination to assault back is highly misguided and will lead to more of the same, but it doesn't for a moment justify chest beating over 9/11. As a Canadian, you should be ashamed of yourself.
 

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Well now that I read all the good things that were done to people in WW 2, can we take ALL those things and USE THEM IN ALL THE ARAB Countries so I can dance in my living room starting tonight? I am going to get a sheet right now.


Thanks for all the info.This was a great bunch of stuff.


Hey Wilheim, can you tell the American General to carry out those things from way back then to today in Iraq and Iran to name a few USELESS countries that DO NOTHING day to day.


March on United States.As Carlos Baerga use to say "Keep Pushing".move forward guys and pile up enemy bodies and make towers out of them.


God Bless our country to eliminate the a race that has and is ruining OUR WORLD!

Thank you Mr. George Bush! You are doing a ok job.To do a great job George you need pile up more dead bodies.
 
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captain #5, you should get out more often, turn off your TV, maybe make friends with people from outside your neighbourhood. go travelling outside your country and i dont mean goto canada, talk to an arab person sometime, see what you have in common. if you do those things i bet you wont feel the same ignorant way you feel right now.
 

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A2345...., why in the hell would I want to get out of my country to go to some other country to see how they live,eat,enjoy life at their fullest? Am I missing something that they have that I don't? Why would I want to SPEND a AMERICAN dollar in ANY ARAB country? To support them? Don't think so.

How many American Arabs are in the stands of sporting events?

How many American Arabs are athletes?

How many American Arabs trust a American?


This all goes for the Arabs that claim they are Americans after they arrived in our COUNTRY CLUB---the greatest spot in the world--------USA.

A2345ex---what do I or anybody else out here have in common with a Arab? Not much.Maybe its space.The space is running out as they ship into America.

Hey Bush, what about the borders? Anyday locking them up?


A2345ex why don't you be the congressman and get out and travel to meet your Arab friends.I will pass and pass them when they are standing on the side of the road.America needs more people like yourself.


One last one,does any ARAB AMERICAN do anyhing positive for this nation----USA?


All I want is a Las Vegas in the middle east run by Americans.
 

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"Why would I want to SPEND a AMERICAN dollar in ANY ARAB country? To support them? Don't think so."

Do you live in a solar powered bubble?
icon_rolleyes.gif

Globalization has made your nationalistic wet-dream a delusion.
 

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The bubble has burst for the Arab world.Time will tell....


Burst their bubble and watch their world tumble.
 

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if you have ever gassed up a vehicle you have supported arab businessmen
 

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Top mass murdering regimes of the 20th century:

1. Soviet Union - 61 million lives
2. Communist China - 36 million lives
3. Nazi Germany - 21 million lives

Relative coverage in international media:

1. Soviet Union - <5%
2. Communist China - <5%
3. Nazi Germany - >90%

Let A = the percentage of Jews among international media executives

Let B = the percentage of Jews in the world population

Fact: A/B > 20

Things that make you go hmmm...
 

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