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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Floyd Gondolli:
Mr. Tanaka,

Are the awful exploits of Unit 731 generally known (or tought) in Japan?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all by the average person. The true history is there in universities but it's certainly not common knowledge or taught in high school.
 
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Why are Slurpee and Lander allowed to post on RX? Someone I know was banned from here for using a slur.(and rightly so) Is that worse than stirring up bullshit on here by taking joy in the murder of 3,000 people?

Just wondering.
 

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NJ, probaly because the ridiculously inflammatory posts by scum like Lander generate many responses and traffic to the site which increases its marketablity.
 

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Historicaly Coral pales in significance to Midway. However you are correct at the time it was a very big draw for the US Navy. Coral sea also in many ways allowed Midway to happen as it did, First of all the Japanese front line carriers Shokaku and Zuikaku were damaged and had to be scratched from the Midway op. Although damaged badly Yorktown was still able to steam back to Pearl and with a some incredible American inginuity sail to Midway. The Lexington was sunk, but not before the Japanese had lost a jeep carrier and had to abandon their assault on Port Moresby and retreat to Rabaul. You will probably think I am looking this stuff up on the fly, but I am really familair with most of the events described from books.


wil.
 

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Slurpee and Lander - Have either of you two ever heard of Japan's infamous WWII Unit 731 or did the sub-standard, outcome-based education you received neglect to include it?
 

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Re. Banning and this forum, as some know I am a moderator here at The Rx. and have had some give and take with Floyd and a few others. I do not however slur or use profanity. This forum is un-moderated, meaning no one really watches what is said here. If you feel someone has gone to far feel free to contact our head mod, General, at Generalpete@hotmail.com.


wil.
 

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No, I was educated in Ireland, second only to Japan in terms of quality of education in the world.


I believe the USA ranks in the 180s.....
 

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Wilheim,

Clearly you know your stuff on the Pacific War. I too know quite a bit about it, particularly the early portion.

Your point about Coral Sea losses forcing Japan to undertake the Midway operation with 4 large carriers instead of the 6 in the original plan was very significant. In fact, it could be argued that being short those 2 carriers slowed the progress of the Japanese attacks on Midway Island just long enough to allow the US forces to catch Nagumo's Task Force with its pants down and destroy 3 of the 4 large carriers in minutes. Of course without the cryptanalysis work by Cmdr. Joe Rochefort's unit, Japan's Midway plan would have, in all likihood, succeeded.
 

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Slurpee, I suggest you go back to Belfast or wherever you come from and ask your former teachers to clue you in on some of the more significant details of World War II because clearly they did a piss-poor job of it the first time around.

By the way, did you know that Irishmen who were members of the IRA were some of the Nazis best spies in England during WWII?
 

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Floyd, breaking the JN25 code was key to Coral sea and even more so at Midway. We were lucky in several ways, not the least of which was Nimitz's confidence in Rochefort and his gang of codebreakers. Secondly Halsey being sick was a break that enabled the brilliant Rear Admiral (at the time) Raymond A. Spruance to shine. It was Spruance who preserved the victory when he did not pursue Yamamoto inside the land based air coverage of Wake island. Spruance of course went on to many more victories, but will always be remembered as Spuance of Midway.

wil.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr NJ Sports:
Why are Slurpee and Lander allowed to post on RX? Someone I know was banned from here for using a slur.(and rightly so) Is that worse than stirring up bullshit on here by taking joy in the murder of 3,000 people?

Just wondering.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How exactly is condeming the H-Bomb (after the war was over, for all practical purposes) taking joy in the murder of 3000 people?

You illiterate fuk.
 

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Lander, please explain how "the war was over, for all practical purposes" when in the Summer of 1945 Japan was testing bombers with a long enough range so they could drop Anthrax bombs on San Francisco?

Bet you didn't even know that little tidbit of information.
 

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Lander, go ask the people of Manchuria if the war was over in 1945.

There's a reason why it causes a diplomatc incident with the rest Asia every time Koizumi visits the Yasukuni shrine.
 

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Do you know what these people are doing?
korean.jpg


They're chopping off their fingers to protest Koizumi's visit to the shrine. This is how deep the wounds of Japan's past are.
 

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The Japanese committed brutal atrocities during the war, especially agaist the Chinese. The sack of Nanking is the most notable. They were also very brutal with POWs.

behead-us-pilot.jpg
 

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Short exerpt from a trial transcript for the slaughter of Chinese civilians.

On the final day, we were taken out to the site of our trial. Twenty four prisoners were squatting there with their hands tied behind their backs. They were blindfolded. A big hole had been dug--ten meters long, two meters wide, and more than three meters deep. The regimental commander, the battalion commanders, and the company commanders all took the seats arranged for them. Second Lieutenant Tanaka bowed to the regimental commander and reported, "We shall now begin." He ordered a soldier on fatigue duty to haul one of the prisoners to the edge of the pit; the prisoner was kicked when he resisted. The soldier finally dragged him over and forced him to his knees. Tanaka turned toward us and looked into each of our faces in turn. "Heads should be cut off like this," he said, unsheathing his army sword. He scooped water from a bucket with a dipper, then poured it over both sides of the blade. Swishing off the water, he raised his sword in a long arc. Standing behind the prisoner, Tanaka steadied himself, legs spread apart, and cut off the man's head with a shout, "Yo!" The head flew more than a meter away. Blood spurted up in two fountains from the body and sprayed into the hole.


wil.
 

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Very much true Will
I just know someone's going to dig up a photo of a dead vietnamese kid to change the subject.

Right now we are talking about revisionists (Japanese and Western) who like to gloss over Japan's past with the intention of painting a false and rosey picture of the poor,inncocent Japanese.
 

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vivisect.gif


Morioka, Japan
He is a cheerful old farmer who jokes as he serves rice cakes made by his wife and then he switches easily to explaining what it is like to cut open a 30-year-old man who is tied naked to abed and dissect him alive, without anesthetic.

"The fellow knew that it was over for him and so he didn't struggle when 'they led him into the room and tied ,him down," recalled the 72-year-old farmer, then a medical assistant in a Japanese army unit in China in World War II. "But when I picked up the scalpel, that's when he began screaming

"I cut him open from the chest to the stomach and he screamed terribly and his face was all twisted in agony. He made this unimaginable sound, he was screaming so horribly. But then finally he stopped. This was all in a day's work for the surgeons, but it really left an impression on me because it was my first time."
 

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These events must ever be forgotten.

Sheldon Harris, a historian at California State University, in Northridge, estimates that more than 200,000 Chinese were killed in germ warfare field experiments. Hams -author ofa book on Unit 731, "Factories of Death" also says that plague-infected animals were released as the war was ending and caused outbreaks of the plague that killed at least 30,000 people in the Harbin area from 1946 through 1948.

The leading scholar of Unit 731 in Japan, Keiichi Tsuneishi, is skeptical of such numbers. Tsuneishi, who has led the efforts in Japan to uncover atrocities by Unit 731, says that the attack on Ningbo killed about 100 people and that there is no evidence for huge outbreaks of disease set off by field trials.


Knowledge gained at the cost of human lives
Many of the human experiments were intended to develop new vaccines or treatments for medical problems the Japanese army faced. Many experiments remain secret, but an 18-page report prepared in 1945--and kept by a senior Japanese military officer until now--includes a summary of the unit's research. The report was prepared in English for U.S. intelligence officials and it shows the extraordinary range of the unit's work.

There are scores of categories that describe research about which nothing is known. It is unclear what the prisoners had to endure for entries like "studies of burn scar" and "study of bullets lodged in the brains."

Scholars say that the research was not contrived by mad scientists and that it was intelligently designed and' carried out. The medical findings saved many Japanese lives.

For example, Unit 731 proved that the best treatment for frostbite was not rubbing the Limb, which had been the traditional method but immersion in water a bit warmer than 100 degrees, but never mom than 122 degrees.

The cost of this scientific breakthrough was borne by those seized for medical experiments. They were taken outside and left with exposed arms, periodically drenched with water, until a guard decided that frostbite had set in. Testimony From a Japanese officer said this was determined after the "frozen arms, when struck with a short stick, emitted a sound resembling that which a board gives when it is struck."

A booklet just published in Japan after a major exhibition about Unit 731 shows how doctors even experimented on a three-day-old baby, measuring the temperature with a needle stuck inside the infant's middle finger.

"Usually a hand of a three-day-old infant is clenched into a fist", the booklet says, "but by sticking the needle in, the middle finger could be kept straight to make the experiment easier".

wil.
 

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And finally plans for The US mainland.

Plans to take the germ war to the US homeland
In 1944, when Japan was nearing defeat, Tokyo's military planners seized on a remarkable way to hit back at the American heartland: they launched huge balloons that rode the prevailing winds to the continental United States. Although the American Government censored re. ports at the time, some 200 balloons landed in Western states, and bombs carried by the balloons killed a woman in Montana and six people in Oregon.

Half a century later, there is evidence that it could have been far worse; some Japanese generals proposed loading the balloons with weapons of biological warfare, to create epidemics of plague or anthrax In the United States. Other army units wanted to send cattleplague virus to wipe out the American livestock industry or grain smut to wipe out the crops.

There was a fierce debate in Tokyo, and a document discovered recently suggests that at a crucial meeting in late July 1944 it was Hideki Tojo - whom the United States later hanged for war crimes - who rejected the proposal to use germ warfare against the United States.

At the time of the meeting, Tojo had just been ousted as Prime Minister and chief of the General Staff, but he retained enough authority to veto the proposal. He knew by then that Japan was likely to lose the war, and he feared that biological assaults on the United States would invite retaliation with germ or chemical weapons being developed by America.

Yet the Japanese Army was apparently willing to use biological weapons against the Allies in some circumstances. When the United States prepared to attack the Pacific island of Saipan in the late spring of 1944, a submarine was sent from Japan to carry biological weapons it is unclear what kind - to the defenders.

The submarine was sunk, Professor Tsuneishi says, and the Japanese troops had to rely on conventional weapons alone.

As the end of the war approached In 1945, Unit 731 embarked on its wildest scheme of all. Codenamed Cherry Blossoms at Night, the plan was to use kamikaze pilots to infest California with the plague.

Toshimi Mizobuchi, who was an instructor for new recruits in Unit 731, said the idea was to use 20 of the 500 new troops who arrived in Harbin in July 1945. A submarine was to take a few of them to the seas off Southern California, and then they were to fly -in a plane carried on board the submarine and contaminate San Diego with plague-infected fleas. The target date was to be Sept. 22, 1945.

Ishio Obata, 73, who now lives in Ehime prefecture, acknowledged that he had been a chief of the Cherry Blossoms at Night attack force against San Diego, but he declined to discuss details. "It is such a terrible memory that I don't want to recall it," he said.

Tadao Ishimaru, also 73, said he had learned only after returning to Japan that he had been a candidate for the strike force against San Diego. "I don't want to think about Unit 731," he said in a brief telephone interview. "Fifty years have passed since the war. Please let me remain silent."

It Is unclear whether Cherry Blossoms at Night ever had a chance of being carried out. Japan did indeed have at least five submarines that carried two or three planes each, their wings folded against the fuselage like a bird.

But a Japanese Navy specialist said the navy would have never allowed Its finest equipment to be used for an army plan like Cherry Blossoms at Night, partly because the highest priority in the summer of 1945 was to defend the main Japanese islands, not to launch attacks on the United States mainland.

If the Cherry Blossoms at Night plan was ever serious, it became irrelevant as Japan prepared to sur-render in early August 1945. In the last days of the war, beginning on Aug. 9, Unit 731 used dynamite to try to destroy all evidence of its germ warfare program, scholars say.


No Punishment, Little Remorse
Partly because the Americans helped cover up the biological warfare program in exchange for its data, Gen. Shiro Ishii, the head of Unit 731, was allowed to live peacefully until his death from throat cancer in 1959. Those around him in Unit 731 saw their careers flourish in the postwar period, rising to positions that included Governor of Tokyo, president of the Japan Medical Association and head of the Japan Olympic Committee.

By conventional standards, few people were more cruel than the farmer who as a Unit 731 member carved up a Chinese prisoner without anesthetic, and who also acknowledged that he had helped poison rivers and wells. Yet his main intention in agreeing to an interview seemed to be to explain that Unit 731 was not really so brutal after all.

Asked why he had not anesthetized the prisoner before dissecting him, the farmer explained: "Vivisection should be done under normal circumstances. If we'd used anesthesia, that might have affected the body organs and blood vessels that we were examining. So we couldn't have used anesthetic."

When the topic of children came up, the farmer offered another justification: "Of course there were experiments on children. But probably their fathers were spies."

"There's a possibility this could happen again," the old man said, smiling genially. "Because in a war, you have to win."
 

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