What was a worse terrorist attack?

[Oceans11]

Japan got the nukes because they were the little yellow people, and not europeans.
This made the decision a lot easier.

On top of that, the US would have had a lot of problems and losses invading the mainland.
Most japanese fought to the death until the Emperor said stop.
Then, with few exceptions, they stopped.

I recall a WW2 Japanese soldier being repatriated about 1980.
He'd missed the surrender and kept fighting in the jungle on one of the islands since 1945. (and had killed some locals over the 35 years before they finally coaxed him out.)

-------------------------------------

Bin laden is different, his stuff is no more than a major international police action.

 

[MrTanaka]

I'm Japanese and have mixed emotions on that of course but I'll say that we had every intention of dropping atomic bombs on American and Russian cities if we had developed the weapon in time.

 

[Oceans11]

Footnote:
For all the bombing and fighting around the world in WW2 there were exceptions to the mayhem and destruction.

Hitler had specific instructions that Oxford/Cambridge were not to be touched, no-one bombed the crap out of Paris and Rome or turned them into centres of street fighting and even in the far east the centre of Japanese culture, Kyoto, was not touched.

Nice to know that even in times of madness, there are forward thinking people everywhere.

 

[MrTanaka]

One lesser-known fact is that Nagasaki was home to Japan's largest Christian (Catholic) population at the time.

So if you justify cheering for 9/11, then you also have to clap and cheer over Nagasaki for the same reasons. After all, the Christians there were just paying for the past sins of their church, right?
The Catholic church has murdered 100x more Muslims throughout history.

So be happy that the citizens of Nagasaki got what they deserved if that's your view of 9/11.

And if you despise the "capitalist pigs" then I really don't understand your love for Japan. Capitalism there makes the US looks like a communist state.

 

[wilheim]

Just an example of what may have happedned if we (US) had to invade mainland Japan. On April 1st. 1945 US forces invaded Okinawa led by US Marines. When the fighting was ended more than 5000 marines were killed, along with 110,000 Japanese troops. Countless civilians also died, many commiting suicide rather than be conquerd by an invading army. Japanese home islands were to be defended from invasion and occupation by 2.3 million troops, another four million Army and Navy employees and a newly created armed militia numbering 25 million. These defenders were sworn to fight to the death, which so many Japanese troops had done in battles throughout the Pacific.

To effectively invade and occupy Japan, American strategists foresaw two invasions, scheduled for November 1945 and March 1946. The first invasion, on the island of Kyushu. would employ some 770,000 American troops. The follow-up invasion on the plains of Tokyo, leading to the forced occupation of Japan, called for two million American troops. Based on the experience at Iwo Jima and Okinawa, experts predicted that in an invasion of Japan, 30% to 35% of U.S. soldiers would be killed or wounded during the first 30 days. Gen Douglas MacArthur's chief surgeon, Brig. Gen. Guy Denit, estimated that a 120-day campaign to invade and occupy only the island of Kyushu would result in 395,000 casualties.

On July 26 the U.S., Britain and China issued the Potsdam Declaration to Japan to surrender unconditionally, "The alternative," said the declaration, "is complete and utter destruction."

On July 27th, Japanese Premier Kantaro Suzuki announced to the Japanese press that the Potsdnm declaration was to be Ignored."
Confronted by an enemy leadership that was self-deluded, neither prepared to surrender nor to negotiate seriously, the Americans decided that the only way to end the war quickly would be to use overwhelming force: nuclear weapons.

Two bombs were dropped. The Russians invaded Manchuria. On August 10, Emperor Hirohito overruled his militarist advisors and accepted the Potsdam declaration. Japan surrendered.

wil.

 

[Slurpee]

so, who cares if a bunch of soldier boys from the south got killed in southeast asia....


hey wait a second. Vietnam

 

[wilheim]

Slurpee - Your missing the point, millions of Japanese would have been killed also. This goes to the original questions re. dropping the bombs. As bad as that was, it was nowhere near a catastrophic an an invasion would have been.


wil.

 

[Slurpee]

Five million Vietnamese dead........


sounds like you guys pussied out in WWII

 

[wilheim]

Slurpee - who is us guys? In case you missed it World War II was a global war. In 1939, following the German invasion of Poland, Britain and France declared war on Germany. The following six extraordinary years saw 55 million people killed Russia alone lost 27 million. Here is a link read up.

WW2


Later, wil.

 

[MrTanaka]

So you would rather have a couple million dead Japanese Slurpee?

Do you know what the Japanese soldiers would do to you if you were living in Korea or Manchuria at the time? I'll tell you exactly what they would do. They would tie you to a post and force you to watch while they rape your mother and sister with a bayonet. Believe me, the Japanese wouldn't give a fvck about you or any other non-Japanese. Hey, that's pretty much still the case today.

I realize you are probably 15 and terribly ignorant but you really need to read a few history books.

 

[Oceans11]

15 yrs old, or 15 bottles of beer...

 

[MrTanaka]

Since you're suggesting that the US should have left Japan alone to have it's fun romp through Asia, then by doing nothing the US would indirectly have been responsible for well over tens of millions of violent deaths.

 

[Slurpee]

You mean the kind of "fun romp" the USA is having in the Middle East right now?

 

[MrTanaka]

No I don't and by that statement you prove how DANEROUSLY ignorant you are. You have no clue do you? Think what you want about US policy but it is NOTHING compared to Japan in the early to mid 20th century.
History sadly repeats itself because of people like you. That's why your ignorance is dangerous.

And by the way, we're talking about Japan in this topic but you keep changing the sbject every time. That really tells me and everyone else that you have no real idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

[wilheim]

Mr. Tanaka, I am a amatuer Pacific war student. Have been for many years. Japan needed to force a quick (6 months) conciliation with the US back in 1942. Three things stopped that.

1. US population's outrage at Peral Harbor attack.
2. The Doolittle raid gave US a ray of hope early, and forced Yamamoto into an incredible blunder at Midway.
3. Midway itself. The battle itself accomplished three strategic things.

a. American Subs could depart with full bunkers from Midway instead of Pearl, a round trip difference of 2300 miles. This multiplied their killing power. Most feel it was the Sub campaign that was the first cause of Japan's ultimate defeat.

b. 4 of Japan's first-line carriers were sunk and their squadrons were drowned or shot down at Midway, a loss never made up.

c. Japan passed overnight, in morale, from elan to desperation. From around 10:30AM June 4, 1942 onward Japan was on the run. They would however fight bravely to the very end.


wil.

 

[FloydGondolli]

What many of you don't realize is that Japan used weapons of mass destruction during WWII long before Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed. Japan's infamous Unit 731 used biological and bacterialogical weapons against the Chinese in the early parts of the war. In fact, Japan in 1945 was attempting to build a bomber with a long enough range to drop Anthrax-filled bombs on the US West Coast. Thankfully the war ended (due to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings) before Unit 731 could deliver these weapons to US targets.

So spare me the recriminations about the justification for using the atomic bombs on Japan.

Read all about Unit 731 here or do a Google search and see for yourself:

http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~dyue/wiihist/germwar/731rev.htm#origin

 

[MrTanaka]

I have a degree in Japanese history. I've studied at both American and Japanese universities so I got a little of both sides. I can tell you that the general feeling in Japan is one of shame regarding WW2 and Hiroshima/Nagasaki. The people that are most angry and are passing historical judgements on things were not the ones involved and don't understand the climate of the time. Even today the Japanese govt. hasn't admitted the full extent of what happened. You won't find a single sentence about it in Japanese high school textbooks.

Not to say the Japanese are happy about it (Hiroshima/Nagasaki) of course but they are more ashamed of allowing themselves to descend into madness than they are angry at the US. Being Japanese, I'm very ashmaed of what we did. My grandfathers "fought" for the Japanese military in China so it's a very personal issue for me.

 

[FloydGondolli]

Wilheim,

Your analysis of the pacific war is sound. I would also include the significance of the Battle of the Coral Sea. While it was essentially a stalemate, it was the first time a major Japanese operation in the early part of the war failed to achieve its goals. It came between the Doolittle Raid and Midway.

 

[FloydGondolli]

Mr. Tanaka,

Are the awful exploits of Unit 731 generally known (or tought) in Japan?

 

[Mr NJ Sports]

Yeah Slurpee great comparison, dropping 2 bombs to end a war as compared to murdering people that got up to go to work on a september tuesday morning.