When you have contact with Professionals Refs some day then maybe you will be able to read between the lines like i have done over the years now as far as college refs it may be a different story because i have never had any contact with them but until you get on the same page as myself then you will never know!!cd329 said:
This thread has really taken off...!!!! Again I reiterate that sports fixing is not accomplished the way you would think. From the moment this thread began, various posters insinuated that payoffs and bribery could be how it was done and granted this has been the case in the past from time to time and yes we are just talking and speculating and there is nothing wrong with that, it should be noted that on a scale of 1 to 10 on how close that kind of speculating is to the actual truth of the matter, it would be a 2....I respect the opinions of everyone here and I am not trying to belitle anyone but folks, you not even close......
No, I am still not going to describe how its done but merely suggest a different way of looking at it. Contrary to what A&E and HBO have told us, the Mafia is not dead. It is not some roague element of our society that exists "outside" the system. It is merely one component of the system. And it should be noted that it is not the strongest element to that system either(which should make you think). It has always been a part of the system which in itself has always been corrupt because it was formed for corrupt purposes, mainly the fleecing of the public. They sent a mafiosi to jail only to turn around and give his daughter her own reality show which is watched by millions of people. So when I say they are a part of the system...they truly are a part of the system.
What most people do not realize thanks to the brainwashing of Hollywood indoctrination is that the Mafia is a military order that operates as an intelligence network...but what is intelligence? Its just knowledge which the Profane ( The Public ) dont have access to. Yes its been leaked here and there over the years but as this thread has clearly indicated, new ideas of that threaten the current establishment or do not hold the state in good favour do not go over very well with the people....because the people themselves are dependent upon that state for their goods and services as well as their "entertainment"
Naturally our egos are tied in with our beliefs and because it has been implanted in our heads at an early age that the State is your friend and not your enemy, people naturally do not want to be told such a thing because then that would require elimination of the ego, and compromise. sooner or later people are going to have to realize that the State does not exist to serve the people, the people exist to serve the State....why else would you pay interest to debt created by irresponsible government spending? Because to survive in the system, you have to play by its rules....The NFL does not exist outside of this system...it would not exist if it didn't serve one of their agendas...and that is to take your money come hell or high water.....
No, I am still not going to describe how its done but merely suggest a different way of looking at it. Contrary to what A&E and HBO have told us, the Mafia is not dead. It is not some roague element of our society that exists "outside" the system. It is merely one component of the system. And it should be noted that it is not the strongest element to that system either(which should make you think). It has always been a part of the system which in itself has always been corrupt because it was formed for corrupt purposes, mainly the fleecing of the public. They sent a mafiosi to jail only to turn around and give his daughter her own reality show which is watched by millions of people. So when I say they are a part of the system...they truly are a part of the system.
What most people do not realize thanks to the brainwashing of Hollywood indoctrination is that the Mafia is a military order that operates as an intelligence network...but what is intelligence? Its just knowledge which the Profane ( The Public ) dont have access to. Yes its been leaked here and there over the years but as this thread has clearly indicated, new ideas of that threaten the current establishment or do not hold the state in good favour do not go over very well with the people....because the people themselves are dependent upon that state for their goods and services as well as their "entertainment"
Naturally our egos are tied in with our beliefs and because it has been implanted in our heads at an early age that the State is your friend and not your enemy, people naturally do not want to be told such a thing because then that would require elimination of the ego, and compromise. sooner or later people are going to have to realize that the State does not exist to serve the people, the people exist to serve the State....why else would you pay interest to debt created by irresponsible government spending? Because to survive in the system, you have to play by its rules....The NFL does not exist outside of this system...it would not exist if it didn't serve one of their agendas...and that is to take your money come hell or high water.....
Loren78 said:
This point is fine. It is, for the most part, accurate. The people serve the state, bla bla...no one is arguing with that. We arent in the know as public. That doesnt show anything about the NFL though having every single game of every single weekend be a fix.
Sports are different. Why are they different? No, not because we love athletes and they can do no wrong like some would lead you to believe. But because the outcome is determined on the field by 3 groups that are being watched by millions of people in person and by 10 different camera angles:
-coaches
-players
-refs
That's it. No mafia guy, or bookie up in the stands can send brain waves to Emmitt Smith to make him fumble - unless Emmitt is in on it.
Unless there is some Manchurian Candidate brain washing going on, one, if not all of these parties have to be in on the fix - because the outcome is determined by THEM. Not all coaches, not all players, not all refs. But probably at least one of each, and the player would have to be a key player.
If you want to say the media brainwashes you and they work with the books and they overhype the game of the week. Fine. But that doesnt make FOOTBALL, THE GAME, fixed. Your posts are implying that the GAMES are fixed. If you want to say brainwashing occurs in the media, who want to lead the public to believe something, then you say the MEDIA is fixed and bias, and we all say we know.
But if you still think the GAMES are FIXED, then it still needs to be controlled on the field, before 10 different camera angles and sky cam and dirt cam, right in front of the face of the viewing public.
A ref can only make so many bad calls, and his bad calls dont do much if there is a blowout. And if other refs arent in on it, and they convince a ref they had a better angle, or they didnt see anything you will get a little ref conference where the flag may be picked up. We usually see replay of every mistake from 9 different angles, so we will see a hold, see a facemask, see whatever the call is on replay. We confirm most of these calls. Overall, there are on average 1-2 bad calls a game. And 1-2 calls cant effect the outcome of every single game, every single week, every single year.
Which means refs cant do it alone. Can they fix a tight game every now and then? Yes. Can they fix every single game of the schedule all year long? No. Not without help from one, if not both, of the other 2 parties: Players and coaches.
Am I saying every man doesnt have his price? No. Im not saying that.
But once again, this post is long enough, but it's absurd to think every single NFL game of every single week is fixed. Sorry. It's illogical.
If you want to say the media is biased and makes you believe certain things, I wont diagree much there.
But that doesnt make the actual games fixed.
Boxslayer,
am just gonna say one thing and that is you make me a ref and i guarantee, i can fix every single game that i ref to the outcome i want. I really dont see how a ref couldnt do it every game if he wanted to. Hes got the power to call falgs on both sides of the ball that is some powerful stuff.
Also you say 1-2 bad calls cant change a game, well i dont know how many games you have watched in your gambling life, but 1-2 bad calls is more then enough to control the outcome of a game. I could give you a million examples, but just look at last years superbowl, those few bad calls thatw ere made against seattle, completely cost them the game.
Hell all it takes is 1 td called back for hodling and the whole complexion of the game can change. I wasnt even going to jump into this post any more, because like i said we can argue games are fixed or not fixed until we are blue in the face, its still your opinion against my opinion.
But what you saying about a ref not being able to control a game all by himself, that am sorry but you are 1000000000 percent wrong and just about every gambler who has any knowledge will tell you the same thing about how 1-2 bad plays in a game can change the whole outcome.
am just gonna say one thing and that is you make me a ref and i guarantee, i can fix every single game that i ref to the outcome i want. I really dont see how a ref couldnt do it every game if he wanted to. Hes got the power to call falgs on both sides of the ball that is some powerful stuff.
Also you say 1-2 bad calls cant change a game, well i dont know how many games you have watched in your gambling life, but 1-2 bad calls is more then enough to control the outcome of a game. I could give you a million examples, but just look at last years superbowl, those few bad calls thatw ere made against seattle, completely cost them the game.
Hell all it takes is 1 td called back for hodling and the whole complexion of the game can change. I wasnt even going to jump into this post any more, because like i said we can argue games are fixed or not fixed until we are blue in the face, its still your opinion against my opinion.
But what you saying about a ref not being able to control a game all by himself, that am sorry but you are 1000000000 percent wrong and just about every gambler who has any knowledge will tell you the same thing about how 1-2 bad plays in a game can change the whole outcome.
This thread is a joke. LOL.
If you used the stratagy of the thread starter last season in the NFL, you would be in the poor house.
Basically this is a system of taking unpopular dogs against heavy favs.
Whopptodo!!!!
The unpopular dogs win sometimes. But if you would have used that system last season, you would not have any money left over this year to bet the winners for this season.
I cant believe the play this thread is getting.
It takes big time teamwork from so many different people to pull off a fix in the NFL.
Lets not forget that the NFL is the most competive sport in the world.
All the real impact players make huge money, the ones that you would need to fix the games. There contracts are not guarented in the NFL. These players are fighting for there livelyhood every single Sunday. There is always a young player waiting in the wings to take there job.
You can only throw so many games before you lose you position.
College hoops, maybe so lower level 1-A football games, thats about it.
Dont forget, that the limits for these games in the sportsbooks rarely exceed $25,000 bucks. Anything over that, and in most cases over $5,000, you have to get approval for a bet to even get accepted at those levels.
An order to get someone like a Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady to throw a football game, it would require a min of 1 million bucks, just to get them to even think about it, and even then its probably a no go.
I dont care about all this mafia talk. Unless the mafia is threatening to kill one of Tom Bradys kids, they dont have enough money to con someone like that into throwing a game. Even if they did, they could not get bets down big enough to cover the amount of money that they used to payoff the player.
A ref can get away with changing the outcome maybe once or twice. There are only so many blatant bad calls an official can make before there job is gone.
Do you think a coach, who spent is entire life getting one of those coveted 32 jobs, would risk losing on purpose just for a few hundred grand when they make probably 20 times more than that in pay per season.
COLLEGE HOOPS, yes.
NFL, NFW!!!!!
If you used the stratagy of the thread starter last season in the NFL, you would be in the poor house.
Basically this is a system of taking unpopular dogs against heavy favs.
Whopptodo!!!!
The unpopular dogs win sometimes. But if you would have used that system last season, you would not have any money left over this year to bet the winners for this season.
I cant believe the play this thread is getting.
It takes big time teamwork from so many different people to pull off a fix in the NFL.
Lets not forget that the NFL is the most competive sport in the world.
All the real impact players make huge money, the ones that you would need to fix the games. There contracts are not guarented in the NFL. These players are fighting for there livelyhood every single Sunday. There is always a young player waiting in the wings to take there job.
You can only throw so many games before you lose you position.
College hoops, maybe so lower level 1-A football games, thats about it.
Dont forget, that the limits for these games in the sportsbooks rarely exceed $25,000 bucks. Anything over that, and in most cases over $5,000, you have to get approval for a bet to even get accepted at those levels.
An order to get someone like a Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady to throw a football game, it would require a min of 1 million bucks, just to get them to even think about it, and even then its probably a no go.
I dont care about all this mafia talk. Unless the mafia is threatening to kill one of Tom Bradys kids, they dont have enough money to con someone like that into throwing a game. Even if they did, they could not get bets down big enough to cover the amount of money that they used to payoff the player.
A ref can get away with changing the outcome maybe once or twice. There are only so many blatant bad calls an official can make before there job is gone.
Do you think a coach, who spent is entire life getting one of those coveted 32 jobs, would risk losing on purpose just for a few hundred grand when they make probably 20 times more than that in pay per season.
COLLEGE HOOPS, yes.
NFL, NFW!!!!!
cd329 said:
Dude, you're hopeless. Honestly, man...do yourself a favor and start picking up some books, and read a few lines and then see if you can remember what you just read. And then re-read it, and make sure you didnt twist somebodies words around. You are killing me here, dude. Killing me.
This is good. This is a good exercise for you.
See if you can comprehend this. The original poster is saying every single game is fixed. Not just 1 or 2. But every single game on the slate, every single week, every single year is fixed. With that in mind (please keep that in mind...remember it....go back and read it again before you forget)
Go back up to my post and find this line:
What does that line mean?
It means, sure, you'll find a game here and there that can be effected by 1-2 calls in a game, and you're right man, the Super Bowl was a really nice example of that. Nice job. But that has nothing to do with what I posted above.
The problem is, you continue to twist my words around because you lack reading comprehension. And that's okay. It happens. Some people arent good readers. So what I'm gonna do from now on, is just ignore your posts, because it's obvious this is a big boy conversation and you are driving this big boy up the freakin wall.
I think most would agree, not every single game of every week is fixed. But not even that can be for certain and that is one of my greatest fears. There are indeed those inside and outside the syndicate who have come to suspect that sometimes the over/unders are manipulated and quite often, it will go unnoticed, to the untrained eye. Once in a while Al Michaels will tip off the public albeit through a veiled reference. The outcome of the game is not always part of the fix. This kind of rigging goes on quite often in the NBA and in particular college basketball...
CHOPTALK said:
Check this post it. It displays logic. I cant prove that the games arent fixed. Just like I cant prove that the sun will rise tomorrow.
But, I can use logic, a helluva lot more of it than any in this thread has used, supported by points, a helluva lot more than anybody else from the opposition is doing, to support my logic.
I havent heard the theory how these games are fixed. I havent heard anything remotely close that is SPECIFIC to the NFL as to why they are fixed. I've heard about government, the mafia and the world, and thats really nice. But that doesnt explain how this specific sport with 22 people on the field at once is fixed, and nobody seems to be in on it.
I see contrarian capping in the 1st thread, that would have been bankrupt last year....let me guess....they wanted to get the public thinking they could win last year, only to take it all back this year. Right?
The guy in the first post makes nice points about governemtn and the mafia and all of this nice stuff. And thats fine.
But none of it has supported football except for: "It happens here, it happens there, why not football?"
Because the post above describes logic and common sense, thats why.
Once again:
Fixed games. Sure they happen - HERE and THERE
But the mass conspiracy described in post #1, is nothing more than an unsuccessful handicapper who does not realize he is wagering on humans and never takes emotional and psychological factors into account when he wagers. He just always thinks the Bears are going to beat the Dolphins. Always. Because they are a machine. No. They are human. Thats why the Bears dont cover every game and thats why the Dolphins beat them. That doesnt mean the games are fixed.
The original poster may seem like he is trying to say the media sways the publics point of view. Fine. Whatever. But that doesnt make the games fixed.
The only thing I agree with MJ on is the refs can make some legit mistakes. Like when they call a defensive pass interference, after replaying it, it may be pretty questionable, but as fast as the game is, you'll give them that. But when they blow a call and it's challenged, they have an opportunity to right a wrong. Case in point, the play with Jermaine Wiggins against the Patriots. When they don't take that opportunity to fix a call that is obvious to the rest of the world, that is one big problem. Also, I don't like how the refs can make so many calls that are unchallengeable. Why shouldn't any flag they throw not be challenged? It's because if you could, then it would be very hard for them to affect the outcome of the game, because there would be so many obvious questionable calls after reviewing them, that the whole world would realize how corrupt it is. Oh wait, that's already the case with the very few they review...lol.
there is some sort of fix and i think mostly book knows it. i agree with threadstarter in almost everything he says.
if you look in the nfl thread i post games each sunday from a source who is 10-0ATS so far. all his plays were underdogs and 8 of them won straight up. my source says he gets key info from some connection in vegas and a guy inside a big offshore book. check out my thread for last week http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=422411
i will post coming week's thread on sunday.
if you look in the nfl thread i post games each sunday from a source who is 10-0ATS so far. all his plays were underdogs and 8 of them won straight up. my source says he gets key info from some connection in vegas and a guy inside a big offshore book. check out my thread for last week http://forum.therx.com/showthread.php?t=422411
i will post coming week's thread on sunday.
goldengoose said:
The Sportsbooks are indeed complicit in the scam, for they have a hell of a lot to loose. One of the things I find that helps me in my final analysis is in what the sportsbooks are telling you. Where I live I am fortunate enough to be able to tune into a sports talk show that deals specifically in the NFL. About a hour before kick off time, each week they bring on the sportsbook director of a particular Casino in Vegas. If any of you ever have access to this kind of talk radio, check it out. The Sportsbook director usually will tell the hosts what teams the books are "needing" to cover. Naturally, as an insider I am well aware of what that actually means. The Sportsbook director is telling you point blank, that a certain team is going to cover. I have come to find out over the years that when a Sportsbook Director tells you "they" need a particular team to cover that weekend, and you bet the opposite, you will come to regret it.
Everybody please stop posting in this thread we are all wrong.
The great Boxslayer has spoken and told us we are all idiots and he knows for certain what happens in the world everyday.
If he says games arent fixed, then who are we to think they are?
Boxslayer is like the great oz, he knows all. Athletes are the greatest people in the world making enough money with the highest moral standards to ever consider such a foul disgusting act. Same with refs. And the power brokers behind the nfl, well they would never consider such an act, because they are all on the up and up.
Please mods lock this thread as all our questions have been answered by the great oz.
sorry box for ever doubting you.
Hey box should i have chicken or steak tonight for dinner?
The great Boxslayer has spoken and told us we are all idiots and he knows for certain what happens in the world everyday.
If he says games arent fixed, then who are we to think they are?
Boxslayer is like the great oz, he knows all. Athletes are the greatest people in the world making enough money with the highest moral standards to ever consider such a foul disgusting act. Same with refs. And the power brokers behind the nfl, well they would never consider such an act, because they are all on the up and up.
Please mods lock this thread as all our questions have been answered by the great oz.
sorry box for ever doubting you.
Hey box should i have chicken or steak tonight for dinner?
