Should the Joe Paterno Statue Come Down in Happy Valley?

[vitterd]

Vit, this thing stinks and always has stunk. The NCAA has already returned scholarships, reinstated bowl eligibility and wins. They are admitting they were wrong.

Avoiding a lawsuit...that's about it

 

[Enfuego]

Avoiding a lawsuit...that's about it

Well, maybe you're right.

 

[Tacopants]

Trust me, I know. What does that have to do with a man engaged with the boy in after-school activities? Happens everyday in America.

I mean, let's say a DI football player befriended a kid with a rough upbringing. He takes the kid to the university and they shoot hoops, lift weights or whatever. Is that considered strange?

You know what?? You are crazy.

Here is a test, go to your local "Big Brother" office and tell them you want to be a Big Brother. The very next question, ask " would it be okay to shower with my little brother in a locker room after hours when nobody else is around." I am sure they will sign you up ASAP because that is exactly what Sandusky did.

Dude, you may need to seek some help or stay the fuck away from little kids. There is no way in hell a grown ass man, who is not my father, should be showering with a twelve year old boy in a football locker room after hours with no one else around. Yeah, shoot some hoops, lift weights and drop him the fuck off at home to shower or let him shower alone but not jump naked in the shower with him when no one else is around. Fuck that, that is not normal.

 

[Enfuego]

You know what?? You are crazy.

Here is a test, go to your local "Big Brother" office and tell them you want to be a Big Brother. The very next question, ask " would it be okay to shower with my little brother in a locker room after hours when nobody else is around." I am sure they will sign you up ASAP because that is exactly what Sandusky did.

Dude, you may need to seek some help or stay the fuck away from little kids. There is no way in hell a grown ass man, who is not my father, should be showering with a twelve year old boy in a football locker room after hours with no one else around. Yeah, shoot some hoops, lift weights and drop him the fuck off at home to shower or let him shower alone but not jump naked in the shower with him when no one else is around. Fuck that, that is not normal.

Not what you said in your previous post.

You said:

"No grown ass man should be solo in the football locker room after hours with a 12 year old boy"

That's what you said. Don't add the shower bit now when that's not what you said earlier.

 

[Tacopants]

Not what you said in your previous post.

You said:

"No grown ass man should be solo in the football locker room after hours with a 12 year old boy"

That's what you said. Don't add the shower bit now when that's not what you said earlier.

Enfuego,

Let me give you a news flash in case you missed it, Sandusky showered with a boy after hours in the PSU football locker room. Did not know I had to add every little detail for the PSU sympathizers. I thought Sandusky showering with the boy after hours was universally accepted and I even referenced it later down in the response. Stop trying to parse my responses to fit your narrative. You know what I meant.

 

[Enfuego]

Enfuego,

Let me give you a news flash in case you missed it, Sandusky showered with a boy after hours in the PSU football locker room. Did not know I had to add every little detail for the PSU sympathizers. I thought Sandusky showering with the boy after hours was universally accepted and I even referenced it later down in the response. Stop trying to parse my responses to fit your narrative. You know what I meant.

I read what you typed out. You said "no grown ass man should be solo in the football locker room after hours with a 12 year old boy."

I disagree with that statement. That's all.

"FACT: Paterno knew Sandusky was hanging out with young boys in the football locker room after hours regardless of what the boy says happened today. Sorry, that is just plain wrong. No grown ass man should be solo in the football locker room after hours with a 12 year old boy, punto. Paterno was the head of the football program and godlike on campus. If he wanted Sandusky banned from the football locker rooms tomorrow he could have made it happen. Anything else is bullshit. Are you telling me Saban, Urb or Stoops do not have the power to kick a former assistant out of their football building? I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you believe that. He most likely did not ban him because that would have raised some reporters suspicion. Hey, why is Sandusky no longer hanging around campus?"

Nothing about showering in your statement at all.

 

[akphidelt]

I've read most of the evidence in this case and the evidence against Joe Paterno is very weak. It basically comes down to a conversation he had with McQuery and people blaming him for not being Sherlock Holmes and investigating and arresting Sandusky himself... and Paterno even admits...

You know, he didn't want to get specific," Paterno said. "And to be frank with you I don't know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it."

I honestly don't understand what the problem with this is. He was what a 70 year old dude who coaches football. He relayed the information to people that are equipped to handle investigating or contacting the proper authorities to handle these kinds of accusations. Paterno also admits in hindsight he wishes he did more. This after learning the actual evidence against Sandusky. So to destroy a man's life and legacy because the armchair life experts think he should have done more is insane. What they did to Joepa was sad. There is a reason they gave him his wins back, because there is no real evidence that he did anything wrong.

 

[Enfuego]

I've read most of the evidence in this case and the evidence against Joe Paterno is very weak. It basically comes down to a conversation he had with McQuery and people blaming him for not being Sherlock Holmes and investigating and arresting Sandusky himself... and Paterno even admits...

You know, he didn't want to get specific," Paterno said. "And to be frank with you I don't know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it."

I honestly don't understand what the problem with this is. He was what a 70 year old dude who coaches football. He relayed the information to people that are equipped to handle investigating or contacting the proper authorities to handle these kinds of accusations. Paterno also admits in hindsight he wishes he did more. This after learning the actual evidence against Sandusky. So to destroy a man's life and legacy because the armchair life experts think he should have done more is insane. What they did to Joepa was sad. There is a reason they gave him his wins back, because there is no real evidence that he did anything wrong.

I said the same thing over all 19 of the pages in this thread. Could not have said it better.

 

[Tacopants]

I read what you typed out. You said "no grown ass man should be solo in the football locker room after hours with a 12 year old boy."

I disagree with that statement. That's all.

"FACT: Paterno knew Sandusky was hanging out with young boys in the football locker room after hours regardless of what the boy says happened today. Sorry, that is just plain wrong. No grown ass man should be solo in the football locker room after hours with a 12 year old boy, punto. Paterno was the head of the football program and godlike on campus. If he wanted Sandusky banned from the football locker rooms tomorrow he could have made it happen. Anything else is bullshit. Are you telling me Saban, Urb or Stoops do not have the power to kick a former assistant out of their football building? I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale if you believe that. He most likely did not ban him because that would have raised some reporters suspicion. Hey, why is Sandusky no longer hanging around campus?"

Nothing about showering in your statement at all.

Okay but you left I what I said previously "FACT: Paterno testified McQueary told him he saw Sandusky fondling a young boy in a "sexual nature" after hours in the football locker room showers." I was using it I the same context.

Okay, so if the statement above read Paterno knew Sandusky was showering with a 12 year old boy in the football locker room after hours. Does that change your opinion? Because that is what happened. And what did JoePa do about it? Did he ban Sandusky from using the Penn State football facilities. No. He told Sandusky, just don't bring those poor kids into the locker room after hours.

From Sandusky's own attorney "“He wasn't banned from using Penn State facilities until November 2011," after criminal charges were filed in the broader case, Amendola told FoxNews.com. "Jerry was using Penn State facilities right up until the week before charges were filed. It’s obvious Penn State didn’t consider him dangerous. In fact, he wasn’t.”

Dude was using the Penn State football facilities for 10 years after the incident, running his football camp out of his defacto office and the Penn State players were encouraged to support Sandusky's football camp. Did JoePa ever do anything about it? Sadly, no.

 

[Tacopants]

I've read most of the evidence in this case and the evidence against Joe Paterno is very weak. It basically comes down to a conversation he had with McQuery and people blaming him for not being Sherlock Holmes and investigating and arresting Sandusky himself... and Paterno even admits...

You know, he didn't want to get specific," Paterno said. "And to be frank with you I don't know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it."

I honestly don't understand what the problem with this is. He was what a 70 year old dude who coaches football. He relayed the information to people that are equipped to handle investigating or contacting the proper authorities to handle these kinds of accusations. Paterno also admits in hindsight he wishes he did more. This after learning the actual evidence against Sandusky. So to destroy a man's life and legacy because the armchair life experts think he should have done more is insane. What they did to Joepa was sad. There is a reason they gave him his wins back, because there is no real evidence that he did anything wrong.

Paterno wishes he did more because he did nothing. He could have and should have banned Sandusky from all Penn State related football activities once he was told that Sandusky was fondling a 12 year old boy in a sexual nature in the Penn State football locker room after hours. At least then it would have seemed like he cared. No he just passed the buck and said he informed the proper authorities.

Way to be a legend. Way to be a great leader of an organization people want to build statues for. Basically in a time when strong leadership and character is needed Paterno passes all responsibility to someone else. He could have done something and he did nothing. That is why there should be no statue or names on a trophy. Don't care about the wins but this guy was no legend and should not be held up as one. Keep the wins, keep the schollies, but don't bring back the statue or trophies in his name.

 

[GoSooners]

Paterno reported the incident, but when you are renowned as a WORLD CLASS human being by the way he was for years and years, the public expects you to live up to that. He chose to protect Penn State. I don't think he was protecting Sandusky because I think he forced him to retire, but he chose Penn State over rights of young men that Sandusky preyed upon. I honestly think that he did not and could not believe it. But that doesn't change my mind that he should have been following this up. HUGE mistake in my opinion. And keep in mind, this went on for years. People don't seem to get that your inactions can be just as much or more damaging than your actions. If you don't speak up on child molesters, they are going to continue doing what they do - rape children.

 

[Enfuego]

Paterno wishes he did more because he did nothing. He could have and should have banned Sandusky from all Penn State related football activities once he was told that Sandusky was fondling a 12 year old boy in a sexual nature in the Penn State football locker room after hours. At least then it would have seemed like he cared. No he just passed the buck and said he informed the proper authorities.

Way to be a legend. Way to be a great leader of an organization people want to build statues for. Basically in a time when strong leadership and character is needed Paterno passes all responsibility to someone else. He could have done something and he did nothing. That is why there should be no statue or names on a trophy. Don't care about the wins but this guy was no legend and should not be held up as one. Keep the wins, keep the schollies, but don't bring back the statue or trophies in his name.

Sandusky wasn't involved in football activities. He had a key and a desk to the gym per his retirement package with PSU which had nothing to do with Paterno. He did do something even though you say he did nothing. He reported what he was told to his direct supervisor immediately.

 

[Enfuego]

Paterno reported the incident, but when you are renowned as a WORLD CLASS human being by the way he was for years and years, the public expects you to live up to that. He chose to protect Penn State. I don't think he was protecting Sandusky because I think he forced him to retire, but he chose Penn State over rights of young men that Sandusky preyed upon. I honestly think that he did not and could not believe it. But that doesn't change my mind that he should have been following this up. HUGE mistake in my opinion. And keep in mind, this went on for years. People don't seem to get that your inactions can be just as much or more damaging than your actions. If you don't speak up on child molesters, they are going to continue doing what they do - rape children.

And what did he do to protect PSU? He never told anyone not to report this. He never told McQueary to keep quiet about what he saw. Could he have done more? Sure. Did he report the hearsay to his supervisor? Yes.

 

[GoSooners]

And what did he do to protect PSU? He never told anyone not to report this. He never told McQueary to keep quiet about what he saw. Could he have done more? Sure. Did he report the hearsay to his supervisor? Yes.

If you reported your next door neighbor molesting a child, and there wasn't anything done about it the first time and it continued to happen, would you have kept quiet and let him continue doing it to other children?

 

[Enfuego]

If you reported your next door neighbor molesting a child, and there wasn't anything done about it the first time and it continued to happen, would you have kept quiet and let him continue doing it to other children?

The analogy you've provided is different. I wouldn't report my next door neighbor was molesting a child to my supervisor. I would call the police.

 

[GoSooners]

The analogy you've provided is different. I wouldn't report my next door neighbor was molesting a child to my supervisor. I would call the police.

Child molesters very seldom get prosecuted based on one incident. It usually takes multiple incidents and a pattern before the light comes on with authorities. Nobody can tell me that people didn't know what went on with Sandusky. A friend of mine is on a university coaching staff. He says that football coaching staffs are one of the most tight knit groups that you'll ever see. They know everything that goes on with the other coaches. Sandusky should have been dealt with long ago.

 

[vitterd]

I've read most of the evidence in this case and the evidence against Joe Paterno is very weak. It basically comes down to a conversation he had with McQuery and people blaming him for not being Sherlock Holmes and investigating and arresting Sandusky himself... and Paterno even admits...

You know, he didn't want to get specific," Paterno said. "And to be frank with you I don't know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it."

I honestly don't understand what the problem with this is. He was what a 70 year old dude who coaches football. He relayed the information to people that are equipped to handle investigating or contacting the proper authorities to handle these kinds of accusations. Paterno also admits in hindsight he wishes he did more. This after learning the actual evidence against Sandusky. So to destroy a man's life and legacy because the armchair life experts think he should have done more is insane. What they did to Joepa was sad. There is a reason they gave him his wins back, because there is no real evidence that he did anything wrong.

They gave his wins back to avoid the lawsuit. It was basically a settlement. Joe was not just some old man football coach with superioros. Those superiors answered to him. 2 years prior they asked him to step down, he told them to fuck off. That sound like he has a boss? The first phone call on every issue regarding penn st went to joe...he would pressure faculty about his kids grades in the classroom, he bullied administrators and he ran that town. He knew Sandusky was a rapist and could have stopped it....one call from joepa stops it all...that's the kind of power he had. He wasn't some doddering old football coach....he ran the university.

 

[Enfuego]

Child molesters very seldom get prosecuted based on one incident. It usually takes multiple incidents and a pattern before the light comes on with authorities. Nobody can tell me that people didn't know what went on with Sandusky. A friend of mine is on a university coaching staff. He says that football coaching staffs are one of the most tight knit groups that you'll ever see. They know everything that goes on with the other coaches. Sandusky should have been dealt with long ago.

That's nice and all but we can't assume what Joe Pa knew or didn't know. We can't make assumptions.

 

[GoSooners]

They gave his wins back to avoid the lawsuit. It was basically a settlement. Joe was not just some old man football coach with superioros. Those superiors answered to him. 2 years prior they asked him to step down, he told them to fuck off. That sound like he has a boss? The first phone call on every issue regarding penn st went to joe...he would pressure faculty about his kids grades in the classroom, he bullied administrators and he ran that town. He knew Sandusky was a rapist and could have stopped it....one call from joepa stops it all...that's the kind of power he had. He wasn't some doddering old football coach....he ran the university.

I agree. i don't think you could fart at that school without Joe Pa knowing about it. I know they say he was keeping quiet to protect PSU. But I think it was just as much to protect his legacy. Hell, Penn State was his legacy.

 

[Enfuego]

I agree. i don't think you could fart at that school without Joe Pa knowing about it. I know they say he was keeping quiet to protect PSU. But I think it was just as much to protect his legacy. Hell, Penn State was his legacy.

Throughout history, there have been a lot of coverups. I've never heard one in which a guy gets information and then tells his direct supervisor what he heard. A coverup usually involves not telling someone what you know or have heard. Maybe we're in a new era of coverups?