Olympics Boxing Thread and Discussion

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Rx. Senior
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Denniz,
First ready my letter to NBC in the other thread and read what happens.

To answer your question,
When there is a draw in the score the criteria is they go to the judges raw scores (meaning the five individual judges scoring punches, every time they hit the button).

They throw out the high and low scores for each boxer and come up with a score with the three remaining judges.

The boxer with the higher score gets the decision.
 

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In the welterweights, Jung-Joo Kim advanced over Jack Culcay-keth 11-11 on scoring criteria.

In the featherweights, Luis Porozo advanced over Roberto Navarro 3-3 on scoring criteria.
 

EL BANDITO
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Conyo...talk about thourough..those were the two I was missing..Now my brackets are complete and I am a man again..thks
 

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Comments on early session of flyweights and bantamweights:

One small upset in the flyweights as the Dominican Republic's Juan Carlos Payano defeated veteran and medal contender Jerome Thomas of France. The younger, quicker Payano sent Thomas with the sidelines via a 10-6 decisive victory. Italy's Vincenzo Picadrdi was impressive in winning his opening bout as well.

The bantamweights saw another upset as young Hoorshid Tojibaev upset veteran German Rustamhodza Rahimov. Tojibaev completely frustrated Rahimov in an 11-2 win. Gu Yu of China pleased the hometown crowd with a decisive 17-7 win over Great Britain's Joe Murray. Venezuela's Hector Rangel was the winner in the bout of the day with a narrow 13-10 decision over Ghana's Issah Samir.
 

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The final three weight classes get under way Tuesday night/Wednesday morning, Light Flyweight, Heavyweight, and Super Heavyweight.

A preview of those classes with bets.
 

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A closer look at the light flyweights:

China's Shiming Zou has already been anointed the champion and perhaps the most outstanding boxer of the tournament already by many pundits. As the biggest favorite in the Olympics, Zou will not want to disappoint the hometown crowd. Zou should bring home the gold, with the operative word being should as this is the Olympics and anything can happen as we have already seen.
There are several worthy contenders should Zou stumble. Harry Tanamor of the Phillipines and European Champ David Ayrapetyan of Russia will battle it out in a murderous bottom quarter of the bracket. Ayrapetyan has a tough first round bout with Ukraine's Georgiy Chygayev and a possible second round encounter with Yampier Hernandez of Cuba. Thailand's Amnat Ruenroeng looms as a possible semifinal opponent for whoever comes out of that quarter of death. Zou should face Nourdine Oubaali of France in his second bout. Oubaali should give Zou his toughest test until the finals. A first round bout between Hungary's Pal Bedak and Kazakhstan's Birzhan Zhakypov merits mentioning as it pits two fringe contenders.
 

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Betting outlook for light flyweights:

Shiming Zou is the obvious chalk and should bring home the Gold. That being said a price of upwards of -250 to -300 does not merit any serious value considerations. The other contenders all face each other early and may be beat up by the time they face Zou in the finals.
Rungroeng at +4000 and Hernandez at +5000 represent the best values for a lottery ticket type hit. Still not enough for me to play them though. I will sit on the sidelines and be a spectator in this division for now.

No bets.
 

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A closer look at the Heavyweight Division:

The Olympic blind draw brings us another juicy opening round matchup pitting World Champ Clemente Russo of Italy against second-ranked Viktor Zuyev of Belarus. The winner should have a pretty clear path to the finals while the loser will go home disappointed as an eliminated medal contender. The heavyweight division only has 16 boxers, so the first round will be the round of 16.

The other half of the bracket has a strong first round matchup of its own. Asian Games champ Ali Mazaheri of East Timor goes against the powerhouse Russian squad's representative Rakhim Chakheiv. Pan Am games champion Osmay Acosta of Cuba looms in the top part of the bracket as a semifinal contender for the winner of the Chakhkeiv/Mazaheri bout.
 

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Betting outlook for heavyweights:

Russo and Chakhkeiv are the top two betting choices but they both have tough first round opponents. Their opponents Mazaheri and Zuyev are both extremely live at +2500, but will need to score an opening upset to stay alive.
Cuba is historically strong at the heavier weights, think Teofilo Stevenson and Felix Savon. Acosta has the only clear cut path to the semifinals of the top contenders. He will have to win two tough bouts from there, but having easier first two fights could make him fresher.

Bet to win gold:

Osmay Acosta (CUB) +325
 

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A closer look at the Super Heavyweights:

Another top heavy division with four solid contenders for the gold. World Champ Roberto Cammarelle of Italy leads the field of contenders and has a favorable draw that should see him through to the semifinals. European Champ Islam Timurziev drew tough British fighter David Price in the opening round and is on pace to collide with Cammarelle in the semifinals.

The other half of the bracket features another marquee opening bout in Pan Am champion Robert Alfonso of Cuba versus third-ranked Vyacheslav Glazkov of the Ukraine. Jose Payares of Venezuela looms for the winner and China's Zhilei Zhang gives the host nation another medal prospect.

Barring upsets, the semifinals should shake up as Cammarelle versus Timurziev and the winner of Glazkov/Alfonso versus Zhang. Zhang is probably a notch below the other four but has the home crowd working to his advantage. The other four are very close in talent and whomever has their best day in the ring will emerge.
 

Rx. Senior
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With four competitors as close as these are, the odds often make the difference. All four come from countries with solid Super Heavyweight pedigrees. Rolling the dice a bit and hoping the unproven Cuban can get past Glazkov in the first round, +2000 is too enticing to pass up. Should Alfonso win, he will be favored to get to the finals. That, or it will be a quick verdict and homeward bound.

To win gold in Super Heavyweight division:
Robert Alfonso (CUB) +2000
 

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Here's the final bet rundown for all divisions. Unsure what boxing odds and bets will be available from this point on.

Status of Bets

All are to win the Gold Medal:

E. Correa (CUB) +1000 Middleweight *2 units Won First Round Match
E. Alvarez (COL) +4000 Light Heavyweight First Round Bye
K. Egan (IRE) +8000 Light Heavyweight Won First Round Match
M. Boonjumnong (THA) +415 Light Welterweight First Round Bye
B. Georgiev (BUL) +1600 Light Welterweight Won First Round Match
B. Sarsekbayev (KAZ) +1250 Welterweight Won First Round Match
N. Boonjumnong (THA) +1000 Welterweight First Round Bye
A. Killici (TUR) +5000 Welterweight LOST First Round
A. Tischenko (RUS) +170 Lightweight *3 units Won First Round Match
S.G. Kim (PRK) +1600 Lightweight LOST First Round
W. Petchkoom (THA) +2000 Bantamweight First Round Bye
S. Vodapyanov (RUS) +210 Bantamweight *2 units Won First Round
O. Acosta (CUB) +325 Heavyweight
R. Alfonso (CUB) +2000 Super Heavyweight

Note: Tischenko was changed from two units to three units and Correa and Vodapyanov were changed to two units to more accurate reflect amounts bet on them.
 

RX Senior
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Confusion reigns in Warren's stunning defeat

American boxer falls after taking it easy when he thought bout was in hand

200808120654248695989-pf.h2.jpg

Murad Sezer / AP
The United States' Rau'shee Warren thought he was in the lead late even though his coaches and teammates were yelling for him to stop dancing and go for points against Lee Oksung.
<SCRIPT>getCSS("3053751")</SCRIPT><LINK href="/default.ashx/id/3053751/" type=text/css rel=stylesheet>By Mike Celizic

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</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=boxBI_3027626>Mike Celizic
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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>BEIJING - Rau’shee Warren pulled his shirt up out of his boxing trunks, buried his head in it and sobbed.
He had to say something. Six or eight reporters who had been following his Olympic Dream were waiting to hear exactly how it had died in the Worker’s Gymnasium. They wanted to know why he danced around the ring for the final half-minute of the final round, not even trying to throw a punch when he was down a point to his Korean opponent, why he threw his glove in one direction and his headgear in another.
A USA Boxing press aide took him in her arms and whispered something in his ear. She tried to tell him that it would be all right. But it wasn’t. It was all wrong.
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>dap('&PG=NBCMSN&AP=1089','300','250');</SCRIPT>

Four years ago, Warren had come out of Cincinnati to make the U.S. Olympic team at the age of 17. He had lost in the first round, a victim of youth, inexperience and eventual bronze medalist Zou Shiming of China. And then he had done something no American Olympic boxer had done for 32 years. He decided to remain an amateur, stay with the Olympic team, fight for a chance to win the gold medal that’s filled his dreams since he gave his age in single digits.
He became world champion at 112 pounds last year, punched his ticket to Beijing, and was favored to win a medal. Tuesday night, he stepped into the ring for his first match.

And now it was over, and he didn’t know why.

He tried to talk again, broke down again, his audience of seasoned boxing writers trying not to break down with him. He walked a few feet away, put his head against a wall and was enveloped in another hug by the press aide. Finally, he faced the music he himself had composed.
“Right now it doesn’t seem real to me,” Warren said when he’d gotten himself together enough to talk. He words were clear and spoken aloud, not whispered, but his chin was on his chest, his eyes pointed at the floor but focused on nothing.

“I didn’t know I was down. I thought I was ahead,” he said.
That was it. He thought he was leading Lee Oksung on points, thought he was winning the fight, thought he’d outclassed and outboxed the Korean, thought he was moving on when he was only moving out.
How Warren came to his belief wasn’t clear. The score at Olympic boxing matches is displayed on a scoreboard above the ring. The fighters can’t see it, but their coaches and teammates in the stands can. For the final 50 seconds of the fight, it was 9 points for Lee and 8 for Warren. During that entire time, his coaches and teammates were screaming at him to attack.
<TABLE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 15px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=left border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><SCRIPT>getCSS("3053751")</SCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>“There was so much going on in the crowd, everybody was yelling and screaming,” he said. “I was looking at my teammates, and it sounded like they were saying move, and it also sounded like they were saying fight. I just thought I was up because I was scoring.”

He had been the aggressor in the fight, his opponent hanging back and scoring his points by countering Warren’s big punches. Like many American fighters, Warren does a lot of styling in the ring, carrying his hands low and dancing like a miniature Muhammad Ali. He’ll be able to do that as a pro, but in amateur bouts, if you don’t keep your guard up, you get hit. It doesn’t matter if the punch is hard or just a love-tap. If it’s clean, it’s a point. Warren threw scores — probably a couple hundred — of punches and landed a lot of them. But not enough of them were clean hits.

He did land the one punch that would have tied the bout, but it arrived at its destination a fraction of a second after the bell ended the fight. Even then, as Lee raised his arms in triumph, Warren still thought he’d won. He walked to his corner, where the team’s head coach, Dan Campbell, told him otherwise.

“My coach said that I lost by one point,” Warren said. That’s when he ripped off a glove and tossed it aside, then followed by flinging his headgear out of the ring.



“I started showing bad sportsmanship,” Warren said, another bit of psychic wreckage he’d have to live with.

The impulse to throw things was understandable. Warren said when he learned he’d lost, “it was hard. I was thinking about every day, every week, every month; four years I worked to get back for this.”

This was the Olympics. This was a shot at a gold medal. This was a ticket out of the hard life he wanted to leave behind. He’ll still turn pro, but it won’t be with the contract and money that comes with a gold medal. The road to riches for Rau’shee Warren had just gotten a lot harder and less certain than it might have been — if only he’d known the score.

Both Warren and Campbell questioned the scoring and said Warren should have been in the lead. They felt it was curious that every time Warren went a point ahead, the Korean almost immediately scored a point to tie it again. But Lee was countering when Warren was stylin’. The Korean’s strategy worked. Warren’s didn’t.

Olympic fighters are taught from Day 1 not to ever assume they are winning. Scoring is sometimes mystifying to observers — and the fighters themselves. “The thing guys got to know is they have to try to keep it out of the hands of the judges,” Campbell said. He called the loss “stunning.”

“It was just weird, weird scoring,” Campbell said later.
Still, the coach said he was mystified why his fighter stopped fighting in the final half-minute. “We were screaming at him to throw punches. We were screaming at him.”
It’s not been a good tournament for the U.S. Boxing Team. One of its best fighters, bantamweight Gary Russell Jr., was disqualified when he passed out from dehydration while trying to make weight. And now the team’s only other strong medal contender has danced his way out of the Games.

“It didn’t feel real,” Warren said before literally staggering away, the burden of loss too heavy for his legs to support. “I didn’t feel I lost in there.”


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Rx. Senior
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I started watching the taped broadcast and to be honest I had to turn it off. They showed the Warren bout and he lost. Simply, this kids is dumber than a box of rocks on an Oklahoma highway in the summer heat and he got beat.
Now they are crying about the judging and the scoring and then the coaching.
The Korean boxer beat him, plain and simple. There was no conspiracy, there was no fixed judging. End of story. He fought a better fight.

I'm pissed because I had to turn off the broadcast, I simply could not watch any more.

FUCK YOU TEDDY ATLAS.
FUCK YOU BOB PAPA/BILL PAPA, whatever the fuck your idiot name is.
and a GIANT HUMONGOUS FUCK YOU to Jim Gray.

These guys truly make you turn into a Railbird-esque anti-American. The borderline illiterate/retarded world champion from the US got beat. End of story. No need to go on and on about how we should have 12 year olds judging the fight, how it is unfair, and how everything was scored wrong and we got screwed.

Sorry, the better boxer won. I was rooting for Warren as an American but it was a close fight and in the end he lost.

SO FUCK YOU TO NBC. You should fire your broadcasters right now. Silence would be a better educator of the sport than these fucking clowns.

I am truly pissed. At some point during the next fight they actually apologized to Samir Mammadov of Azerbaijan who was putting on a masterful performance while they were going on and on about the injustices of retard boy Warren. At least they realized their agenda and what true idiots they were.

Utterly disapppointed here,
GD
 

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I think the NBC broadcasters, along with most American viewers, are lamenting over the change this competition has seen over the past 6 Olympics. A lot of us recall the skills displayed by a Cassisus Clay or a Sugar Ray Leonard and can see similair talent in a kid like Rau’shee Warren or a Floyd Mayweather. But it's frustrating to see that these skills are no longer rewarded in Olympic boxing like they use to be. I'm not sure why a kid who has this kind of talent would even waste his time getting humliated in Olympic boxing competition. His style is ideal for professional boxing, so he might as well start building up his record and remain in the sport he knows.
 

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Meanwhile, we better start learning this new style of boxing, because the world has clearly passed us by in this "evolved" Olympic sport.
 

Rx. Senior
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Wynn,
He's not that good and he got beat. The fact is the rest of the world has better boxers than the US. If that is because the better athletes play other sports, or that other countries have better amateur programs so be it.
It's not like Warren beat Lee up and down the ring and got a raw decision. It was a close fight, could have been scored either way, and with open scoring the fighter and his coaches should have had the wherewithal to try and win it.
Instead, I saw a stupid and unprepared fighter dance his way to defeat. As an American I wish he would have won, as a fan I think the Korean fighter fought hard and deserved the decision.
All the sour grapes and B.S. afterwards only fuels the reputation of Americans as sore losers. Be gracious in victory AND in defeat.
 

Rx. Senior
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Some analysis of what I saw and the results of the evening session (note: I turned it off after the announcing diarrhea-fest via NBC so am going off of internet reports for most of this):

Ali Hallab of France was upset in the bantamweights by Akhil Kumar of India. This was a pretty big shocker and opens the door for World Champ Sergey Vodopyanov of Russia to cruise to the fianls. His expected opponent there should be Badar-Uugan Enkhbat of Mongolia.

Raushee Warren's loss at flyweight makes the competition wide open. His conqueror, Ok-Sung Lee of South Korea, obviously vaults into serious contention. Azerbaijan's Samir Mammadov was particularly impressive in a dominant victory and has a marquee bout with Thailand's Smjoit Jongjohor in the next round in a bout that could have medal implications.
 

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Wynn,
He's not that good and he got beat. The fact is the rest of the world has better boxers than the US. If that is because the better athletes play other sports, or that other countries have better amateur programs so be it.
It's not like Warren beat Lee up and down the ring and got a raw decision. It was a close fight, could have been scored either way, and with open scoring the fighter and his coaches should have had the wherewithal to try and win it.
Instead, I saw a stupid and unprepared fighter dance his way to defeat. As an American I wish he would have won, as a fan I think the Korean fighter fought hard and deserved the decision.
All the sour grapes and B.S. afterwards only fuels the reputation of Americans as sore losers. Be gracious in victory AND in defeat.
GD, you're right, I am upset about the loss and I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Warren. I believe he has the physical skills to be a great pro but time will tell. However, my point is that the way the Olympic version of this sport is judged has changed substantially. This change does not reward the same boxing skills that it used to and the differences between Olympic and professional boxing are greater than ever. Fewer gold metalists go on to become world champions for reasons aside from the fact that pro boxing continues to be corrupt as hell. Combinations and power punches are just not given the same weight in Olympic boxing which neutralizes a lot of the advantages to having superior hand and foot speed and being able to hit from various angles. I thought this fight was a good case in point.
 

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