Kobe Needs His Face Crushed

[festeringZit]

Rupert:

Heres a look at the stats of both players thru age 24 in the league ..
Kobe PPG 21.5
Lebron PPG 27.5

KOBE REB PG 5.0
Lebron REB Pg 7.0

KOBE ASSISTS pg 4.2
Lebron Assists pg 6.7

KOBE FG % .455
LEBRON .471


'Nuf said.

I wonder what KobeFan will try to come up with now...

 

[TomGshotput]

kobefan, where would you rank Bryant among all-time greatest basketball players in history?

 

[festeringZit]

kobefan, where would you rank Bryant among all-time greatest basketball players in history?

He had a chance to have a much greater legacy if he wasn't such
a dumb-ass, running Shaq out of LA.

 

[steaktartar]

Rupert:

Heres a look at the stats of both players thru age 24 in the league ..
Kobe PPG 21.5
Lebron PPG 27.5

KOBE REB PG 5.0
Lebron REB Pg 7.0

KOBE ASSISTS pg 4.2
Lebron Assists pg 6.7

KOBE FG % .455
LEBRON .471


'Nuf said.

I wonder what KobeFan will try to come up with now...

I LIKE LEBRON more as player but those stats much like your poly forum stats are misleading.....shaq was the number one option for bryants early years in LA.........and kobe had more of a complete team around him early on.........lebron from the minute he walked on the floor was the only option and he did perform....kobe on a shit team early would've averaged 35 a game......but i still prefer lebron at least this year

 

[festeringZit]

I LIKE LEBRON more as player but those stats much like your poly forum stats are misleading.....shaq was the number one option for bryants early years in LA.........and kobe had more of a complete team around him early on.........lebron from the minute he walked on the floor was the only option and he did perform....kobe on a shit team early would've averaged 35 a game......but i still prefer lebron at least this year

They aren't my stats, they are Rupert's, I was just quoting them.

 

[RupertPupkin]

I got an answer for steak too , but Im heading to greenshoes , it will have to wait til tommorrow ...

I GOT ANSWERS FOR EVERYBODY , WHEN IT COMES TO THE KING , KEEP EM COMING BIATCHES !!!!

 

[kobefan08]

This is sooooo funny... you guys are using stats where Kobe was the 2nd option to prove that lebron is the better player???

I mean god no one is gonna argue with you that Lebron has better stats... its quite obvious hes gonna have much better stats since he was given the franchaise player tag since day 1 , but if you're gonna use it as a basis for Lebron being a better basketball player FACTUALLY then the discussion is basically over since either wilt or oscar have to be the GOAT

Somehow when Lebron gets swept in the finals its "ancient history" but when the lakers lose 4-2 then its because kobe fails without shaq

Again, im sorry that opinions from some of the best players in the league mean nothing... at the end of the day

your opinion >

Lebron, Phil Jackson, Lamar Odom, Stephon Marbury, Gilbert Arenas, Tracy Mcgrady, Derek Fisher, Amare Stoudemire, Mickael Pietrus, Darius Miles, Paul Davis, Nick Van Exel, Chris Kaman, Bonzi Wells, Monta Ellis, Al Thornton, Emeka Okafor, Pat Riley, Greg Popovich, Doc Rivers, Kiki Vandeweghe, Stephen A. Smith, Barack Obama, Andre Iguodala, Shane Battier, Al Jefferson, Billy Thomas, Kenyon Dooling, Lindsey Hunter, Chris Webber, Dwayne Wade, Carlos Boozer, Steve Nash, Nick Collison, Chauncy Billups, Chris Bosh, Charlie Villanuava, Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Tyson Chandler, Ira Newble, Jason Terry, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Jerry Sloan, Kevin Harlan, Michael Redd, Jerry West, Mychal Thompson, John Celestand.

 

[festeringZit]

Yet another statistical category this season (and last season)
where LeBron beats out Kobe.

"Clutch Points"

[SIZE=-1]For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:
[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1] 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points

2007 - 2008

[/SIZE]<table width="100%" bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"></tr><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"><td colspan="5"><center></center>
</td> <td colspan="14" bgcolor="#0000ff"><center>[SIZE=-1]Production per 48 Minutes of Clutch Time[/SIZE]</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Team[/SIZE]</td> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Player[/SIZE]</td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Gm[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Min[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]+/-[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]+/-[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Fga[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Fg%[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]3pA[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]3p%[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Fta[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Ft%[/SIZE]</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffcc00"><center>[SIZE=-1]Pts[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Ast'd[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Reb[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Ast[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]T/o[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Blk[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Stl[/SIZE]</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] CLE[/SIZE]</td> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] James[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 51 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 215 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 141 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]+31[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]36.1[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1].475[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]12.3[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1].309[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]22.5[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 79%[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#99ff99">[SIZE=-1]56.0[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 23%[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 9.6[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 8.2[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 3.6[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 2.2[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 2.9[/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#f0f0df"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] LAL[/SIZE]</td> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Bryant[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 39 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 136 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 31 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]+11[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]33.8[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1].448[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 4.6[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1].385[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]23.3[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 84%[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#99ff99">[SIZE=-1]51.8[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 23%[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 8.1[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 6.0[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 4.2[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 0.7[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 0.4[/SIZE]</td></tr></tbody></table>
[SIZE=-1]
2008 - 2009

[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1][SIZE=-2] Click on a column header to sort by that stat [/SIZE] [/SIZE]

<table width="100%" bgcolor="#cccccc" border="0" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"> <td colspan="5"><center></center>
</td> <td colspan="14" bgcolor="#0000ff"><center>[SIZE=-1]Production per 48 Minutes of Clutch Time[/SIZE]</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Team[/SIZE]</td> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Player[/SIZE]</td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Gm[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Min[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]+/-[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]+/-[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Fga[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Fg%[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]3pA[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]3p%[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Fta[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Ft%[/SIZE]</center></td> <td bgcolor="#ffcc00"><center>[SIZE=-1]Pts[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Ast'd[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Reb[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Ast[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]T/o[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Blk[/SIZE]</center></td> <td><center>[SIZE=-1]Stl[/SIZE]</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] LAL[/SIZE]</td> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Bryant[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 41 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 142 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 100 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]+34[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]39.1[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1].457[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]10.1[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1].400[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]18.2[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 92%[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#99ff99">[SIZE=-1]56.7[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 15%[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 8.4[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 5.7[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 3.0[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 0.0[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 1.0[/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#f0f0df"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] CLE[/SIZE]</td> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] James[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 31 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 111 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 103 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]+45[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]31.2[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1].556[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 8.2[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1].421[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]20.8[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 85%[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center" bgcolor="#99ff99">[SIZE=-1]55.9[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 20%[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]14.3[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1]12.6[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 4.8[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 1.7[/SIZE]</td> <td align="center">[SIZE=-1] 3.5[/SIZE]</td></tr></tbody></table>
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

 

[festeringZit]

And yet another statistical category where LeBron beats out
Kobe.

<table width="750" bgcolor="#ffffff" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#ffffff"><td><tr></tr><table width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td align="top"> [SIZE=-1] [/SIZE]<center> [SIZE=-1]Game Winning Shots[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]by Roland Beech, 82games.com
[/SIZE]</center> </td> <td align="top">

</td> </tr> </tbody></table> [SIZE=-1]Ah yes, when it comes to requests for updated stats on features we've done in the past, nothing comes close to the clamor for another look at "game winning shots" in the NBA. The last time we investigated this was way back on 4/13/2006 as part of the Random Stat collection, and Carmelo Anthony came out on top for the most shots made by the definition we used (see below) as well as doing it with a wonderful .647 field goal percentage. That is a long time ago though, so let's see what the current word is! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]First off there's really one main issue -- what exactly do we want to define as a game winning shot? If we make it too restrictive, as in a real last second shot at the buzzer, then you are dealing with tiny, tiny sample sizes. So instead, we proposed the following filter: [/SIZE]
<table width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#f0f0df"><td>[SIZE=-1] Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points. [/SIZE]</td></tr></tbody></table>
[SIZE=-1]Why use this definition? [/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=-1]
   [*]With 24 seconds or less, then it truly is a "last possession" situation potentially
   [*]With a margin from tied to down 2, the team can take the lead with a made basket (including 3's)
   [*]By excluding a down 3 situation, we don't have the "gimme two point buckets" that defenses will sometimes yield to the quick bucket/intentional foul strategy option you often see exercised. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Obviously though this definition means a shot may not actually be a game winner -- it may only tie a game (if down two points) or it may allow enough time for the opponents to get a game winning shot of their own. Still it seems a reasonable compromise. [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Data sample
Regular Seasons: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08, '08-09 (thru 2/4)
Playoffs: '03-04, '04-05, '05-06, '06-07, '07-08 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]So we're looking at five full regular and playoff seasons, with additionally the current 08-09 season so far. [/SIZE]
<table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="9"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" width="68%"> [SIZE=-1] Leading "Game Winning Shot" Players
<table width="465" bgcolor="#ffffff" border="0" cellspacing="1"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#33cc33"> <td width="150"><center>[SIZE=-1]Player[/SIZE]</center></td> <td width="45"><center>[SIZE=-1]Fgm[/SIZE]</center></td> <td width="45"><center>[SIZE=-1]Fga[/SIZE]</center></td> <td width="45"><center>[SIZE=-1]Fg%[/SIZE]</center></td> <td width="45"><center>[SIZE=-1]Ftm[/SIZE]</center></td> <td width="45"><center>[SIZE=-1]Fta[/SIZE]</center></td> <td width="45"><center>[SIZE=-1]Ast[/SIZE]</center></td> <td width="45"><center>[SIZE=-1]T/O[/SIZE]</center></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffcc66"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] League Wide[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]853 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]2858 [/SIZE]</td> <td>[SIZE=-1]<center>.298</center>[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]610 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]815 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]352 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]296 [/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] LeBron James[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff99">[SIZE=-1]17 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]50 [/SIZE]</td> <td>[SIZE=-1]<center>.340</center>[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]14 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]20 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]6 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]4 [/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#f0f0df"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Vince Carter[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff99">[SIZE=-1]16 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]51 [/SIZE]</td> <td>[SIZE=-1]<center>.314</center>[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]10 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]11 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]3 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]4 [/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#ffffff"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Ray Allen[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff99">[SIZE=-1]15 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]39 [/SIZE]</td> <td>[SIZE=-1]<center>.385</center>[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]4 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]6 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]1 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]2 [/SIZE]</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#f0f0df"> <td align="left">[SIZE=-1] Kobe Bryant[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right" bgcolor="#99ff99">[SIZE=-1]14 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]56 [/SIZE]</td> <td>[SIZE=-1]<center>.250</center>[/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]12 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]15 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">[SIZE=-1]1 [/SIZE]</td> <td align="right">
</td></tr></tbody></table>[/SIZE]</td></tr></tbody></table>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

 

[TomGshotput]

This is sooooo funny... you guys are using stats where Kobe was the 2nd option to prove that lebron is the better player???

So you agree Bryant was never the best player on a championship team?

Bryant has obviously done more in 13 seasons than James has done in six. It is also obvious that the path James is on can certainly put him well ahead of Bryant over the next five to 10 years

James deserves a lot of credit for simply reaching the Finals with that wretched Cavs team, just as Bryant deserves credit for reaching the Finals and losing to a great Celtics team. Of course James did better against the Celtics than anyone on the Lakers did. Just because one was in May and the other was in June, doesn't mean there was really much of anything seperating the two last year

In Bryant's one MVP season, he was thuroughly outplayed in the Finals. Again, while he deservers credit for what he did in 2008, it still means his best year in the league was less than Bird or Magic's third or fourth best year. Or Jordan's seventh or eighth best year

 

[festeringZit]

So you agree Bryant was never the best player on a championship team?

Bryant has obviously done more in 13 seasons than James has done in six. It is also obvious that the path James is on can certainly put him well ahead of Bryant over the next five to 10 years

James deserves a lot of credit for simply reaching the Finals with that wretched Cavs team, just as Bryant deserves credit for reaching the Finals and losing to a great Celtics team. Of course James did better against the Celtics than anyone on the Lakers did. Just because one was in May and the other was in June, doesn't mean there was really much of anything seperating the two last year

In Bryant's one MVP season, he was thuroughly outplayed in the Finals. Again, while he deservers credit for what he did in 2008, it still means his best year in the league was less than Bird or Magic's third or fourth best year. Or Jordan's seventh or eighth best year

"In Bryant's one MVP season, he was thuroughly outplayed in the Finals. Again, while he deservers credit for what he did in 2008, it still means his best year in the league was less than Bird or Magic's third or fourth best year. Or Jordan's seventh or eighth best year"

Bingo!!!

 

[sumday]

He had a chance to have a much greater legacy if he wasn't such
a dumb-ass, running Shaq out of LA.

All said and done, Kobe will leave a great legacy believe me. He is a bonafide superstar. Love him or hate him, you can't deny the intensity and love for the game he has and that's why I admire him along with his uncanny skills of course.

 

[guitarjosh]

He had a chance to have a much greater legacy if he wasn't such
a dumb-ass, running Shaq out of LA.

They had to get Shaq out of LA or he would have shipwrecked the team.

 

[festeringZit]

They had to get Shaq out of LA or he would have shipwrecked the team.

According to Phil Jackson in his book about the ordeal, the problem
was mostly Kobe.

 

[guitarjosh]

According to Phil Jackson in his book about the ordeal, the problem
was mostly Kobe.

I'm sure the fact that Shaq was 32 and wanted to be paid 20 million a year until he was 39 had nothing to do with the front office moving him. They did pretty well for it, getting Gasol, Odom and Farmar for it.

 

[festeringZit]

I'm sure the fact that Shaq was 32 and wanted to be paid 20 million a year until he was 39 had nothing to do with the front office moving him. They did pretty well for it, getting Gasol, Odom and Farmar for it.

Personally, I think I'll believe Phil Jackson's version of the story.

 

[guitarjosh]

Personally, I think I'll believe Phil Jackson's version of the story.

What exactly did Phil Jackson say?
I'll stick with logic, and the fact that after Kupchak said they wouldn't trade Kobe but would entertain offers for Shaq, Shaq demanded a trade.

 

[TomGshotput]

I'll stick with logic, and the fact that after Kupchak said they wouldn't trade Kobe but would entertain offers for Shaq, Shaq demanded a trade.

Logic should tell you the Lakers felt like they had to trade one. Logic would also agree that they might have given up O'Neal and kept Bryant because of the age difference more than anything else

 

[RobFunk]

Logic should tell you the Lakers felt like they had to trade one. Logic would also agree that they might have given up O'Neal and kept Bryant because of the age difference more than anything else

I think so also. Younger more electrifying player in Bryant.
If you can only have one or the other, then who would disagree that it was the right move.

 

[steaktartar]

I got an answer for steak too , but Im heading to greenshoes , it will have to wait til tommorrow ...

I GOT ANSWERS FOR EVERYBODY , WHEN IT COMES TO THE KING , KEEP EM COMING BIATCHES !!!!

dipshit i think lebron is better......but those stats before the age of 24 dont mean much because of circumstances........and(this may be too late) when out with greenshoes wear a condom