are you blind? you start getting on people about writing or communication skills... maybe you should check your comprehension skills
Sorry that trusting LBJ + actual NBA players opinions MORE than opinions of armchair GMs on the offshore forum means that means my opinion is whatever LBJ says
God if you're gonna try to nitpick and be a dick at least learn how to read first
As bad as Lebron was against the Spurs in his first and only finals at age 22
Kobe wasn't much better when the Pistons embarrassed his Lakers 4-1 back in 2003.
Kobe lost to the Pistons 4-1 in the Finals and his team was outscored by 45 pts ( including the win ...) 53 pts in the 4 losses , average of 13 pts per game ...
Lebron did get swept true ( but lost all 4 games by 24 pts ..) including a combined total of 3 pts in his final two losses .. with both games coming down to the wire ...
whats my point? Not really sure ... but you act like Kobe never stunk it up in the finals , I got news for you 4-1 is as bad as 4-0 and I highly doubt the Lakers were braggin in the offseason about their one win and how they saved face and didnt get swept ... and Kobe lost his games in that series by 12 , 20, 8 and 13 ( they won by 8 in OT in their only win ...) Maybe you forget another classic Kobe choke job ..Kobes lakers had 3-1 lead over PHoenix in the 1st round 3 years ago , You'd figure the best player on the planet would be able to win 1 of 3 to close the deal right , but no they choked , including losing game 7 by 31 pts (and this was during the year Kobe averaged 35 a game ... Didnt help them too much though , did it ?) .... And the very next year they got Phoenix iagain in round 1 , Revenge time for Kobe right , WRONG... they lost 4-1.
Lebron was terrible against the Spurs in the finals 22.0 ppg on 36 % shooting ...
Kobe was equally bad losing to the Pistons in the finals 22.4 ppg on 38% shooting ....
Chew on those stats Bub
Kobe wasn't much better when the Pistons embarrassed his Lakers 4-1 back in 2003.
Kobe lost to the Pistons 4-1 in the Finals and his team was outscored by 45 pts ( including the win ...) 53 pts in the 4 losses , average of 13 pts per game ...
Lebron did get swept true ( but lost all 4 games by 24 pts ..) including a combined total of 3 pts in his final two losses .. with both games coming down to the wire ...
whats my point? Not really sure ... but you act like Kobe never stunk it up in the finals , I got news for you 4-1 is as bad as 4-0 and I highly doubt the Lakers were braggin in the offseason about their one win and how they saved face and didnt get swept ... and Kobe lost his games in that series by 12 , 20, 8 and 13 ( they won by 8 in OT in their only win ...) Maybe you forget another classic Kobe choke job ..Kobes lakers had 3-1 lead over PHoenix in the 1st round 3 years ago , You'd figure the best player on the planet would be able to win 1 of 3 to close the deal right , but no they choked , including losing game 7 by 31 pts (and this was during the year Kobe averaged 35 a game ... Didnt help them too much though , did it ?) .... And the very next year they got Phoenix iagain in round 1 , Revenge time for Kobe right , WRONG... they lost 4-1.
Lebron was terrible against the Spurs in the finals 22.0 ppg on 36 % shooting ...
Kobe was equally bad losing to the Pistons in the finals 22.4 ppg on 38% shooting ....
Chew on those stats Bub
RP, my recollection of the Detroit series was that Bryant did very well, the problem was the Lakers were playing 2-5. O'Neal was the best player on the court that series, but the Pistons five starters all did great. Just shows how much championships can be dependent on teammates
Still, to be considered one of the best players in history, your team needs to reach a high level regardless of the teammates. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Russell all won with very good teammates. Lebron made it to the finals with an otherwise below average team. Bryant won championships as the second guy. When he finally became The Guy, the Lakers struggled for a while, now they are merely a contender. This next month will tell us a lot
Still, to be considered one of the best players in history, your team needs to reach a high level regardless of the teammates. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Russell all won with very good teammates. Lebron made it to the finals with an otherwise below average team. Bryant won championships as the second guy. When he finally became The Guy, the Lakers struggled for a while, now they are merely a contender. This next month will tell us a lot
wow. you guys are still going back and forth over this. how about this. both players will be 2 of the best you ever see in your lifetime. both are great competitiors. both get the job done, and i'd take either in a second. people dont like kobe because he's cocky, but that's one of the reasons I like him over lebron. cockiness with bryant is confidence that you cant stop him.
these people like rupert, tomgshotput, that try to marginalize bryant are kidding themselves. hell lebron is my favorite player but right now i'd take bryant to win a championship.
each player has advantages over the other.
Lebron gets his team involved more. Can be a point guard floor general where kobe's job is to score mainly. sometimes kobe makes an effort to much of the time to get his teammates involved when i think he should just keep scoring.
Bron bron is the better rebounder. Bigger, stronger, faster then Kobe.
Kobe is the better shooter, that's the main reason why I choose Kobe over Bron.
Defensively both are solid, both in different ways. LeBron is better at blocking shots, Kobe is better at stripping the ball or anticipating the steal.
overall to argue between these 2 like you guys have for this long accomplishes nothing.
anyone who says either one of these players is not as good as the other either doesn't know basketball or just dislikes the other player. both have certain qualities that make them better in facets of the game over the other, but they equal out to a push. i personally like kobe's qualities more which is why i continue to state i'd take him to win it. doesn't mean he's better, means i think i have a better shot with kobe then bron, at least right now.
these people like rupert, tomgshotput, that try to marginalize bryant are kidding themselves. hell lebron is my favorite player but right now i'd take bryant to win a championship.
each player has advantages over the other.
Lebron gets his team involved more. Can be a point guard floor general where kobe's job is to score mainly. sometimes kobe makes an effort to much of the time to get his teammates involved when i think he should just keep scoring.
Bron bron is the better rebounder. Bigger, stronger, faster then Kobe.
Kobe is the better shooter, that's the main reason why I choose Kobe over Bron.
Defensively both are solid, both in different ways. LeBron is better at blocking shots, Kobe is better at stripping the ball or anticipating the steal.
overall to argue between these 2 like you guys have for this long accomplishes nothing.
anyone who says either one of these players is not as good as the other either doesn't know basketball or just dislikes the other player. both have certain qualities that make them better in facets of the game over the other, but they equal out to a push. i personally like kobe's qualities more which is why i continue to state i'd take him to win it. doesn't mean he's better, means i think i have a better shot with kobe then bron, at least right now.
I agree with your entire post , except that Kobe played well in the finals against Detroit , and Yes Shaq was the most dominant player on the floor in that series ( well any series played with Kobe for that matter ....)
Heres a look a Kobes FG/FG attempts in each game of that series...
GM1 10-27 25 pts 4 assists , 4 rebs
GM2 14-27 33 pts 7 assists , 4 rebs ( his best game of the finals, and only win)
GM3 4-13 11pts 5 assists ,3 rebounds
GM4 8-25 20 pts 2 assists , 3 rebounds
GM5 7-21 24 pts , 4 assist , 3 rebounds
After the series was tied 1-1 .. it looked like we might have a good one on our hands , but Bryant pissed it away at the Palace ... shooting 32 % in the 3 straight losses and averaging only 18 ppg. ( 7 below his career average )
And I disagree with the whole Kobe winning because of Shaq argument. Neither wins without the other.
People will say well you forget about Miami where Shaq won it there. They'll forget to mention how Wade was out of his mind and was the main reason behind them winning it.
You can just as easily say Shaq got lucky playing with 2 hall of fame guards, then saying Kobe and Wade got lucky playing with a hall of fame Center.
Kobe & Wade both outperformed Shaq in the finals anyways so I disregard that.
People will say well you forget about Miami where Shaq won it there. They'll forget to mention how Wade was out of his mind and was the main reason behind them winning it.
You can just as easily say Shaq got lucky playing with 2 hall of fame guards, then saying Kobe and Wade got lucky playing with a hall of fame Center.
Kobe & Wade both outperformed Shaq in the finals anyways so I disregard that.
Remember, though, the Lakers outside of Shaq and Bryant shot only 33%. Bryant scored 33 points in game two, while the rest of the Lakers were so unbelievably bad, none of them were able to score more than 32 in the entire series. And going against Tayshaun Prince, one of the best defensive swingmen in the league, it is actually to Bryant's credit that he was able to achieve that scoring average. Obviously no where near Jordan's level, but certainly better than even most All-Star level players
Look at Lebron James' stats against the Spurs
gtc, I don't try to marginalize Bryant, I try to look at him objectively. Refusing to believe that it is possible one player might help his team more than another is absolutely stupid. And I take the position that over his career Bryant has done more to help the Lakers than James has done to help Cleveland. How that marginalizes him, I haven't a clue
Look at Lebron James' stats against the Spurs
gtc, I don't try to marginalize Bryant, I try to look at him objectively. Refusing to believe that it is possible one player might help his team more than another is absolutely stupid. And I take the position that over his career Bryant has done more to help the Lakers than James has done to help Cleveland. How that marginalizes him, I haven't a clue
Of course virtually every player who has ever won a championship has done so with significant help from his teammates. No one questions that. The only question is how much did each player contribute. And when the Lakers were winning championships, O'Neal was contributing more that Bryant
"Kobe & Wade both outperformed Shaq in the finals anyways so I disregard that"
Absolute horseshit. Wade was the best player on the floor when the Heat won. Bryant never was
"Kobe & Wade both outperformed Shaq in the finals anyways so I disregard that"
Absolute horseshit. Wade was the best player on the floor when the Heat won. Bryant never was
"Is Kobe Bryant a dirty player?
Yes, yes he is."
Great article from Sports Illustrated. Shows what a scumbag dirty
player Kobe is.
I'm glad they're not afraid to call a spade a spade.
He's a dirty player, and a dirty person.
One man's opinion, but I stick by it.
I suppose the Kobe lemmings will now try and call Sports Illustrated
Kobe haters? ROFL.
Kobe has it all. He's filthy loaded, and kicks ass on the court making guys look like fools.
He is very arrogant and cocky though. It is natural for people to want to see a guy like that fall.
I for one, think he is a superb basketball player with uncanny abilities.
We can sit here for hours or days talking about what kind of person or player he is but in the end we are insignificant and he doesn't really care what some people on a gambling forum think of him as he is on top if the world.
Most of my friends hate the guy but none of them argue that he is fun to watch and is one of the best players of all time.
He is very arrogant and cocky though. It is natural for people to want to see a guy like that fall.
I for one, think he is a superb basketball player with uncanny abilities.
We can sit here for hours or days talking about what kind of person or player he is but in the end we are insignificant and he doesn't really care what some people on a gambling forum think of him as he is on top if the world.
Most of my friends hate the guy but none of them argue that he is fun to watch and is one of the best players of all time.
To put Lebrons game from last night in perspective
Nobody has had a similar line score in the last 18 years ... ( which includes Kobe, Jordan and a few other greats ...)
47 pts , 12 , 8 assists .... on the road
http://www.basketball-reference.com...c3val=8&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts
Nobody has had a similar line score in the last 18 years ... ( which includes Kobe, Jordan and a few other greats ...)
47 pts , 12 , 8 assists .... on the road
http://www.basketball-reference.com...c3val=8&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts
People forget how brutally dominating Shaq was in the late 90s/early 00s with the Lakers.. It wasn't even fair how easy it was for the Lakers to throw it down low to him and watch him just absolutely destroy anybody who tried to guard him. It was horrible to watch if your team had to play against him.
Larry Bird is the only one I can think of that put up numbers like these:
Bird recorded three 40-point triple double games in his professional career. The first was on February 14, 1986 in an overtime win against the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished that game with 47 points, 14 rebounds, and 11 assists. The second occurred on December 13, 1989 in a win over the Seattle SuperSonics (40 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists). The last was in a double-overtime win against the Portland Trail Blazers on March 15, 1992 where Bird finished with 49 points (second place for the most points scored while recording a triple double), 14 rebounds, and 12 assists.
Bird recorded three 40-point triple double games in his professional career. The first was on February 14, 1986 in an overtime win against the Portland Trail Blazers. He finished that game with 47 points, 14 rebounds, and 11 assists. The second occurred on December 13, 1989 in a win over the Seattle SuperSonics (40 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists). The last was in a double-overtime win against the Portland Trail Blazers on March 15, 1992 where Bird finished with 49 points (second place for the most points scored while recording a triple double), 14 rebounds, and 12 assists.
