How do you guys feel about Affirmative Action?

[fhmesq44]

I don't think IQ varies much by race, more like you need the IQ and the ability to attend ( pay for) college in order to become a doctor or something.

The poor black kid in Detroit may have the IQ ( born with it) but goes to SHIT schools, and doesn't get nearly as much chance for a scholarship, so then if/when he even graduates HS, he has to go right to work at Walmart, and becoming a doctor doesn't have much hope. He could join military, but that is still a much harder path to college.

The middle class white kid has an easier path, likely goes to much better schools, and possibly can go right to college after HS.

Any source of IQ by race ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence_(test_data)

IQ test score gap in the US

In the United States, the mean IQ score among Blacks has at times been measured as approximately 85 and the mean IQ score among Whites has at times has been measured as approximately 100;<sup id="_ref-IQconsensus_0" class="reference">[13]</sup> the mean IQ score of Latinos has been reported to be measured as approximately 89 for unspecified dates.<sup id="_ref-12" class="reference">[14]</sup>
The mean score for people of East Asian and Jewish descent is usually higher than the mean score of Whites, but the extent of that difference is not precisely known. However, several studies place the median IQ of Ashkenazi Jews (who make up the overwhelming majority of American Jews<sup class="noprint Template-Fact">[citation needed]</sup>) at approximately one standard deviation above the mean for other Whites, with the primary Jewish advantage in verbal reasoning and the East Asian advantage primarily in spatial reasoning. In The Bell Curve, Herrnstein and Murray report mean IQ scores for East Asians and Jewish Americans of 106 and 113 (on a scale where Whites = 103), respectively.
Similar gaps are seen in other tests of cognitive ability, including university admission exams such as the SAT and GRE as well as employment tests for corporate settings and the military (Roth et al. 2001).

 

[themanej2001]

I'm not going to read the whole thread but I will chime in after a few things I read.

Levi- Stupid, ludicrous, and idiotic are words I could use to describe you. I grew up in an area that is wealthy and middle class in the same sense. I went to a high school with 3800 students probably 35% of them black. And there are more then probably 150 African American kids from my grade alone with names like Laquisha who went on to Universities that are much more prestigious then the one you attend or attended. Names have nothing to do with it that is just flat out dumb.

Now onto Affirmative Action. One of the best ideas this country ever had, but not completely the right concept. In my opinion it should be done by income, because there were millionaire black kids at my high school who had the same opportunity as me and other kids but got into better schools because they were black.

If Affirmative Action was done by income it may help more. Let me ask you this, if you think AA is unfair do you think the ACT is unfair. I know personally I got into a lot good schools because of my ACT test. I know kids that GPA's were a point higher then mine and they didn't get into half the schools I got into because they were bad test takers. A lot of things in the college selection process aren't fair.

But if there was no Affirmative Action in life, then things could get bad quick. There are still plenty of racist business owners out there that would rather have no one work then someone of a different color. So then you present yourself with other problems. You have business' that are predominantly white and lack diversity. In my opinion Diversity is a key to succeed in society.

The quickly jump into the black cop comment, a lot of police officers will tell you they would rather have the African American cop that grew up living a tough life as their partner, over the White cop from suburbia. This is because being a cop is all about street smarts, not some dumb academy test.

Society is not fair, but AA is not one of the more unfair things. As I said it should be done by household income because I agree that some people don't have equal opportunities but who is to say that all those people are black or Hispanic. The problem is in the inner city and those people are not wealthy. Why should a kid who is White that grows up in the inner city not have the same benefits of getting out as other inner city kids.

Affirmative Action is tough to debate but that is my feeling on it as a whole. Work places need to have a balance of diversity to meet its maximum potential. People really underestimate what diverse viewpoints can do in a work place.

 

[bigtendominator]

I'm not going to read the whole thread but I will chime in after a few things I read.

Levi- Stupid, ludicrous, and idiotic are words I could use to describe you. I grew up in an area that is wealthy and middle class in the same sense. I went to a high school with 3800 students probably 35% of them black. And there are more then probably 150 African American kids from my grade alone with names like Laquisha who went on to Universities that are much more prestigious then the one you attend or attended. Names have nothing to do with it that is just flat out dumb.

Now onto Affirmative Action. One of the best ideas this country ever had, but not completely the right concept. In my opinion it should be done by income, because there were millionaire black kids at my high school who had the same opportunity as me and other kids but got into better schools because they were black.

If Affirmative Action was done by income it may help more. Let me ask you this, if you think AA is unfair do you think the ACT is unfair. I know personally I got into a lot good schools because of my ACT test. I know kids that GPA's were a point higher then mine and they didn't get into half the schools I got into because they were bad test takers. A lot of things in the college selection process aren't fair.

But if there was no Affirmative Action in life, then things could get bad quick. There are still plenty of racist business owners out there that would rather have no one work then someone of a different color. So then you present yourself with other problems. You have business' that are predominantly white and lack diversity. In my opinion Diversity is a key to succeed in society.

The quickly jump into the black cop comment, a lot of police officers will tell you they would rather have the African American cop that grew up living a tough life as their partner, over the White cop from suburbia. This is because being a cop is all about street smarts, not some dumb academy test.

Society is not fair, but AA is not one of the more unfair things. As I said it should be done by household income because I agree that some people don't have equal opportunities but who is to say that all those people are black or Hispanic. The problem is in the inner city and those people are not wealthy. Why should a kid who is White that grows up in the inner city not have the same benefits of getting out as other inner city kids.

Affirmative Action is tough to debate but that is my feeling on it as a whole. Work places need to have a balance of diversity to meet its maximum potential. People really underestimate what diverse viewpoints can do in a work place.

well said. I like the idea based on income, that is a very valid, regardless of race.

 

[guitarjosh]

That's unrealistic. People are still racists and don't care if people are qualified or not. It's not as bad as 20 years ago, but it's still out there. There are white people who think that no matter what is written on a resume, that black people are inferior or they're going to have some kind of problems by hiring them.

Did you ever see the 20/20 where they had people calling up asking for jobs? They first used black sounding names like "Keyshaun" and asked if a job was still available and they were told "no, sorry". When they called back as "Jason Ross"......"Sure the position is still open, come on down".

Look at this forum as an example. How many people, in here, still feel that blacks can't win as quarterbacks?

Did you see the 20/20 about 10 years ago about ugly/pretty people? The better looking people got the jobs quicker, made more money, were rated higher in job performance, even were found not guilty in the tests they ran. Maybe they need AA for ugly people.

 

[Doug]

tall helps too

Most US presidents are on the tall side.

AA for short ?

 

[levistep]

Levi- Stupid, ludicrous, and idiotic are words I could use to describe you. I grew up in an area that is wealthy and middle class in the same sense. I went to a high school with 3800 students probably 35% of them black. And there are more then probably 150 African American kids from my grade alone with names like Laquisha who went on to Universities that are much more prestigious then the one you attend or attended. Names have nothing to do with it that is just flat out dumb.

3800*.35*.25= 332 blacks named Laquisha. So 50% of the blacks named Laquisha went on top universities? I highly doubt that. Btw, it's funny that you argue that blacks named Laquisha from your school went on to great universities in AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION THREAD.

Additionally, your anecdotal experience from your privileged high school doesn't line up with the rest of the country. Those urban black names are a lot more common among inner-city, poor, single parent households.

Let me ask you this, if you think AA is unfair do you think the ACT is unfair. I know personally I got into a lot good schools because of my ACT test. I know kids that GPA's were a point higher then mine and they didn't get into half the schools I got into because they were bad test takers. A lot of things in the college selection process aren't fair.

Apparently, those schools value ACT test-taking ability over GPA. High GPA usually means work hard while high ACT/SAT means more natural ability. How is that unfair?

But if there was no Affirmative Action in life, then things could get bad quick. There are still plenty of racist business owners out there that would rather have no one work then someone of a different color.

Then let them go broke because of their racism. They might actually figure out that if they close their mind to blacks that they will go broke. Instead of letting them come to that conclusion themselves, we force the racist to hire the black guy, and he'll continue to hate blacks because of it.

 

[BadCo]

Anyone remember Allan Botche I think his name was.

U.C. Davis

 

[FairWarning]

I'm not going to read the whole thread but I will chime in after a few things I read.

Levi- Stupid, ludicrous, and idiotic are words I could use to describe you. I grew up in an area that is wealthy and middle class in the same sense. I went to a high school with 3800 students probably 35% of them black. And there are more then probably 150 African American kids from my grade alone with names like Laquisha who went on to Universities that are much more prestigious then the one you attend or attended. Names have nothing to do with it that is just flat out dumb.

Any AA kid can write their ticket to most any major university, just see the University of Michigan for example.

Now onto Affirmative Action. One of the best ideas this country ever had, but not completely the right concept. In my opinion it should be done by income, because there were millionaire black kids at my high school who had the same opportunity as me and other kids but got into better schools because they were black.

Good points, but then again many schools give points on admission tests when you fill the box that DOESN'T say Caucasian.

If Affirmative Action was done by income it may help more. Let me ask you this, if you think AA is unfair do you think the ACT is unfair. I know personally I got into a lot good schools because of my ACT test. I know kids that GPA's were a point higher then mine and they didn't get into half the schools I got into because they were bad test takers. A lot of things in the college selection process aren't fair.

ACT and SAT testing are a joke and should be abolished.

But if there was no Affirmative Action in life, then things could get bad quick. There are still plenty of racist business owners out there that would rather have no one work then someone of a different color. So then you present yourself with other problems. You have business' that are predominantly white and lack diversity. In my opinion Diversity is a key to succeed in society.

I don't agree at all. I went to a high school with zero AA's or Asians, and one Mexican. Should we just import some for racial harmony?

The quickly jump into the black cop comment, a lot of police officers will tell you they would rather have the African American cop that grew up living a tough life as their partner, over the White cop from suburbia. This is because being a cop is all about street smarts, not some dumb academy test.

I see both sides of the story here.

Society is not fair, but AA is not one of the more unfair things. As I said it should be done by household income because I agree that some people don't have equal opportunities but who is to say that all those people are black or Hispanic. The problem is in the inner city and those people are not wealthy. Why should a kid who is White that grows up in the inner city not have the same benefits of getting out as other inner city kids.

Affirmative Action is tough to debate but that is my feeling on it as a whole. Work places need to have a balance of diversity to meet its maximum potential. People really underestimate what diverse viewpoints can do in a work place.

This has been a good thread.

 

[goodbadugly]

Americas problem is that everything has to go accordingly. Just another way of discrimination. I would say somewhat more civilized. Just the other day i hear on ESPN there are only 8% of African Americans playing in the mlb and thats not right etc. But if there were 40% African Americans in the league everybody would complain how it's the 'blacks' league and we dont like to watch it etc. Like its the case with the NBA. Now, im not saying that the US is the only country in the world that discriminates but it is the only country that pretends like it doesnt but it does.

 

[chick'sfridge]

Bad Co.

The UC Davis case went to the supreme court in the early 60's. Bakke was denied entrance into the Davis Medical School, while minorities with lesser test scores were admitted. The court finally ruled to overturn the University's position.

Handed down on June 28, 1978, the decision of the Court was announced by Justice Lewis Powell. The court ruled 5-4 that race could be one, but only one, of numerous factors used by discriminatory boards, like those of college admissions. Powell found that quotas insulated minority applicants from competition with the regular applicants and were thus unconstitutional because they discriminated against regular applicants.Reverse discrimination. Powell however stated that universities could use race as a plus factor. He cited the Harvard College Admissions Program which had been filed as an amicus curiae as an example of a constitutionally valid affirmative action program which took into account of all of an applicant's qualities including race in a "holistic review."
The decision was indeed split with four justices firmly against all use of race in admissions processes, four justices for the use of race in university admissions, and Justice Powell, who was against the UC Davis Medical School quota system of admission, but found that universities were allowed to use race as a factor in admission. The nature of this split opinion created controversy over whether Powell's opinion was binding. However, in 2003 in Grutter v. Bollinger and Gratz v. Bollinger, the Supreme Court affirmed Powell's opinion.
After eight months, a vote of 5-4 decided that Bakke be admitted to the medical school at Davis

 

[FairWarning]

Americas problem is that everything has to go accordingly. Just another way of discrimination. I would say somewhat more civilized. Just the other day i hear on ESPN there are only 8% of African Americans playing in the mlb and thats not right etc. But if there were 40% African Americans in the league everybody would complain how it's the 'blacks' league and we dont like to watch it etc. Like its the case with the NBA. Now, im not saying that the US is the only country in the world that discriminates but it is the only country that pretends like it doesnt but it does.

One thing ESPN never mentions is when 20-30 year olds were young, the biggest sport stars were Jordan, Barkley, and Barry Sanders. They grew up wanting to be like them. Thats the main reason they are not in baseball.

 

[goodbadugly]

One thing ESPN never mentions is when 20-30 year olds were young, the biggest sport stars were Jordan, Barkley, and Barry Sanders. They grew up wanting to be like them. Thats the main reason they are not in baseball.

WHAT??? Fuck me...

 

[goodbadugly]

why dont you open up a whites only forum and youll hear only things that you like to hear then.... and not ignore and manipulate every post that you dont like.

 

[FairWarning]

why dont you open up a whites only forum and youll hear only things that you like to hear then.... and not ignore and manipulate every post that you dont like.

Are you talking to me? I've been in and out for the last hour.

 

[goodbadugly]

Are you talking to me? I've been in and out for the last hour.

dont you think it was a bogus move to fine jackson $50,000?

 

[FairWarning]

dont you think it was a bogus move to fine jackson $50,000?

Heard about the fine but didn't see what happened. 9:00 bedtime for me. On the surface, seems pretty hefty.

 

[goodbadugly]

Heard about the fine but didn't see what happened. 9:00 bedtime for me. On the surface, seems pretty hefty.

It is high. But whats even worse they been talking about the ejections way more than what the warriors game looked like. its ureal. instead of praising their abilities they talk about what they do wrong. just sad.

 

[xpanda]

Affirmative action is an insult to the people it claims to help. As if women, blacks, hispanics, etc can't get work without the gov't forcing people to hire us.

Gimme a break.

 

[FairWarning]

Affirmative action is an insult to the people it claims to help. As if women, blacks, hispanics, etc can't get work without the gov't forcing people to hire us.

Gimme a break.

Congrats - it took three pages for someone to post the correct answer. :aktion033 People should be offended.

 

[goodbadugly]

Bad Co.

The UC Davis case went to the supreme court in the early 60's. Bakke was denied entrance into the Davis Medical School, while minorities with lesser test scores were admitted. The court finally ruled to overturn the University's position.

Handed down on June 28, 1978, the decision of the Court was announced by Justice Lewis Powell. The court ruled 5-4 that race could be one, but only one, of numerous factors used by discriminatory boards, like those of college admissions. Powell found that quotas insulated minority applicants from competition with the regular applicants and were thus unconstitutional because they discriminated against regular applicants.Reverse discrimination. Powell however stated that universities could use race as a plus factor. He cited the Harvard College Admissions Program which had been filed as an amicus curiae as an example of a constitutionally valid affirmative action program which took into account of all of an applicant's qualities including race in a "holistic review."
The decision was indeed split with four justices firmly against all use of race in admissions processes, four justices for the use of race in university admissions, and Justice Powell, who was against the UC Davis Medical School quota system of admission, but found that universities were allowed to use race as a factor in admission. The nature of this split opinion created controversy over whether Powell's opinion was binding. However, in 2003 in Grutter v. Bollinger and Gratz v. Bollinger, the Supreme Court affirmed Powell's opinion.
After eight months, a vote of 5-4 decided that Bakke be admitted to the medical school at Davis

thats the least they can do for the blacks. they were denied from entering school for centuries and now people expect them to be on the white peoples average, if the same black people had eligibilties to schools, Mr. Bakke would even had a chance cause the grades of the blackswould have been that good that he couldnt compete.