How do you guys feel about Affirmative Action?

[finman13]

while on this topic. someone please tell me why we refer to black americans as "african americans". who started that shit. i dont here italians being called "italian americans" or people whose parents were born in london, but they themselves were born here calling themselves "english americans". totally and utterly rediculous. 99.99999% of the people of color werent even born in africa and a lot of them, after many generations have any ancestorial link to africa, yet because they are black they are "african americans". if you are a citizen of america you are american plan and simple. enough of this shit

and by the way, essentially every nationality and ethnicity has been shit on throughout history...irish, jews, asians (ww2). enough with affirmative action

 

[finman13]

i meant to say, dont have an ancestrial link to africa

 

[tkim11]

The better question to ask is this:

Why, for generations and generations, have immigrants (white, black, asian, hispanic) been able to come into the US and succeed where American poor (white, black, hispanic and to a lesser extent asian) have not been able to break the cycle of poverty?

Immigrants (even white immigrants in the early 19th century) are discriminated against and fight against many of the same obstacles American poor fight against and many, many more (from not knowing anyone to not knowing the language to being less educated).

To me, the answer is simple, they are willing to work their asses off and accept whatever jobs (including shitty ones) with their mind on the long term goal of providing for their families and putting their children in the situation to get an education and have a more successful financial life than they have had. Affirmative Action, for whatever you think about, isn't going to resolve that issue and frankly, that is much of the reason it hasn't worked.

Well fucken put. :thumbsup:

 

[finman13]

amen to that. there is no easier country, and no its not easy in the sense of the word, to succed than this country. work you ass off and make a better life for you or at least your children. asian people, including a koren friend of mine's family came over from korea and worked their ass off, fighting through many obstacles, and now they own a golf course.

the main problem in the black community is the illigitimacy rate. its appalling to me that the idiotic rappers perpetuate this wretched situation by glorifying premarital sex and taking advantage of women as much as possible. they rake in millions while their people and now many other races are caught in a vicious cyle of poverty.

 

[Doug]

I wouldn't trade my life for anyone elses, but i'd rather be chris rock over a guy with one arm. Maybe if the black leaders ended this race war we could actually make some progress.

Why are jobs targetted for the AA though? Why not friendships? I think it'd be more beneficial to force you to be friends with black people.


I'm not quite sure, it makes sense that there'd be a bunch of crappy white qbs because there are so many more white people in population that there'd be some normal distrubtion of crappy, average and above average qbs. It just seems that there should be more great black qbs because they are faster, stronger than whites. Everyone here will deny that, but they won't be able to explain why, at 86% of the population, we don't have a single white RB in the NFL.

I think that 86% is way high

 

[Doug]

while on this topic. someone please tell me why we refer to black americans as "african americans". who started that shit. i dont here italians being called "italian americans" or people whose parents were born in london, but they themselves were born here calling themselves "english americans". totally and utterly rediculous. 99.99999% of the people of color werent even born in africa and a lot of them, after many generations have any ancestorial link to africa, yet because they are black they are "african americans". if you are a citizen of america you are american plan and simple. enough of this shit

and by the way, essentially every nationality and ethnicity has been shit on throughout history...irish, jews, asians (ww2). enough with affirmative action

The Italians are about the only group that does stick with Italian-American. They act like they could just move to Italy and blend right in, because they have a name like Richitelli, even though they don't speak the language.

http://www.italian-club.org/

 

[finman13]

interesting that there are complaints about lack of blacks in baseball now. what do we do, just arbitrarily get rid of the amazing amount of hispanic players, or just get rid of the rest of the causasians? fact is the hispanics love baseball and play it from near birth.

there isnt one complaint about lack of whites in the nba as most "whites" are european. i get so sick of the whining.

 

[finman13]

yes i do here some say italian americans, mostly new yorkers. however my sister's in laws and some of my friends are italian and none of them do this

 

[FatTony]

yes i do here some say italian americans, mostly new yorkers. however my sister's in laws and some of my friends are italian and none of them do this

You're friends aren't Italians, they're Americans.

 

[bigtendominator]

interesting that there are complaints about lack of blacks in baseball now. what do we do, just arbitrarily get rid of the amazing amount of hispanic players, or just get rid of the rest of the causasians? fact is the hispanics love baseball and play it from near birth.

there isnt one complaint about lack of whites in the nba as most "whites" are european. i get so sick of the whining.

I could be wrong here, but i think baseball is more concerned with the athletes going to NBA, NFL. No major marquee black players in baseball, that are liked, popular and can sell the sport. Derek Jeter does not count, not meant in any racial way.

 

[fhmesq44]

You're telling me immigrants are succeeding at a much higher rate to poor blacks in this country? Based on what?



You're going to compare 19th century immigrants, to people who weren't even allowed to use the same water fountains as whites 50 years ago in this country?? These people had the same obstacles?



And what do you base Affirmative Action not working on?

1 - I don't have any empirical data. However, just look around. At one level or another most of us are immigrants. My father came to the US when he was 19 speaking no english. My wife's parents came to the US in their teens in the same situation. I don't know where you live, but here (Silicon Valley) all you have to do is drive around and you can see it with your own eyes. Walk on any corporate campus around here and a massive percentage of the workers are first generation or born outside the US and have high paying jobs. I read an article a while back comparing the lack of advancement of American blacks to that of Caribbean and West African blacks. Went on and on about how American blacks were being passed over by the others. Unfortunately I don't have it and can't find it. It is different mentalities. The poor generally have an excuse, someone to blame, an entitlement mentality with little work ethic. Immigrants are the exact opposite.

2 - Not 19th century, post WWI immigrants. You don't think Italians and Irish were discriminated against? How about Mexicans now and during the past 30 years? The govt passed immigration quotas to keep immigrants out after WWI. They changed their names so people wouldn't know they were Italian. Is it as bad as not drinking from water fountains and other discrimination faced by American blacks, no. But to think they faced no discrimination is misplaced. American poor were in schools, speaking the language, immigrants weren't.

3 - Depends what you mean by working. Has it provided more access to opportunities for minorities, yes, so it is working in that sense. However, it isn't working in the sense that it is an anti-meritocracy. Capable people get jobs and get into college, now capable people are being passed over for jobs and colleges are changing their admissions standards to attempt to avoid the affects of affirmative action. More qualified people are getting into lesser educational institutions b/c of some quota, what do you think the effect of that is? lesser economic productivity and advancements from more qualified people.

 

[levistep]

You're friends aren't Italians, they're Americans.

Try telling an Italian that he is an American and not an Italian.

 

[bigtendominator]

I don't believe this statement at all. There are many very intelligent people that post here.

I think there are a lot intelligent people here. My point is usually you get one person saying Bill Cartwright is the greatest center ever and they will point to 1 game for 800 posts.

Gamblers are generally intelligent people by nature.

 

[Doug]

You're friends aren't Italians, they're Americans.

or

Euro-Americans

 

[FatTony]

Try telling an Italian that he is an American and not an Italian.

Exactly. :lolBIG::lolBIG:

 

[Rawpimple]

Every single, race, ethnicity, and religion has suffered at one point or another. A lot of my ancestors suffered and were persecuted. I am not asking for free handouts. I busted my butt to get to where I am at and no one gave me anything. Stop crying, and whining and using every excuse you can in the book, and start working. Those are my thoughts.

 

[TheFalls]

Would have never guessed what a good thread this is so far....


-and my thoughts will be coming up later as well.

 

[finman13]

You're friends aren't Italians, they're Americans.

exactly my point

 

[FatTony]

exactly my point

But you don't get annoyed at them for saying they're Italian?

 

[finman13]

I could be wrong here, but i think baseball is more concerned with the athletes going to NBA, NFL. No major marquee black players in baseball, that are liked, popular and can sell the sport. Derek Jeter does not count, not meant in any racial way.

im not saying baseball itself is complaining, blacks and others playing the game or outside the game are complaining. not the leaders of mlb

by the way, jesse jackson and al sharpton do more damage for the black community than good...

oh al, waiting for the apology to the duke lacrosse players after you convicted them right from the get go.