Do you hit with 12 when dealer is showing a 2?

[festeringZit]

ive only been dealing for like 6 days and far from claiming to be some great player, just in my personal opinion i dont mind doubleing down on a 12 vs a strong bust card for the dealer

Unless you are counting, every single time you deviate from
basic strategy, you are pissing away EV.

In other words, that is a stupid play.

 

[festeringZit]

kidman yes of course it will change what they otherwise got that hand... but it can just as easily help or hurt. a bad player can just as easily help or hurt. he has no influence over the long run of a winning or losing BJ player.

Not quite true. If you are a counter (like I am), you don't want idiots at the table eating up extra cards by splitting hands and playing multiple hands. when the count
is positive. That being said, you want them eating up cards when the count is negative...

 

[CHOPTALK]

Can someone explain to me the negative and positive of card counting?

I have a really good memory so I would be good at counting cards if I know how.

 

[festeringZit]

my stragety chart from our dealer instructor has the player doubleing on 12 vs a 4-6, so maybe that is was is altering my view, like i said, i was never a big bj player before hand

I have never seen any basic strategy chart that says that (double 12 for any reason). So, I'm skeptical. In any case, if it says that, it is 100% wrong.

 

[CHOPTALK]

I have never seen any basic strategy chart that says that (double 12 for any reason). So, I'm skeptical. In any case, if it says that, it is 100% wrong.

Thats the dealer strategy guide.
Maybe its a guide for dealers to encourage players to make dumb moves.

 

[kidman232]

so if im dealing to 2 players and they are doing pretty good in the shoe (6-8 decks) and a new player sits down at the table and they ask him to wait for the shoe to end and he comes in anyway, your saying they had no reason to ask him to wait nor should they have right. if i still have the chart, ill scan it in and post it that she gave us

 

[kidman232]

Thats the dealer strategy guide.
Maybe its a guide for dealers to encourage players to make dumb moves.

our instructor did not work for harrahs, our class was at a community college through harrahs, but our instructor had never worked for them, she worked for argosy casino for years and now runs her own casino party business so all the stuff was from her

 

[mnmike]

If you dont hit that 12, you made a mistake. It may or may not work out, but it's the wrong thing to do, period. Now if you are a card counter and have some reason to deviate,l that's different, but would have nothing to do with this discussion anyway.

 

[kidman232]

If you dont hit that 12, you made a mistake. It may or may not work out, but it's the wrong thing to do, period. Now if you are a card counter and have some reason to deviate,l that's different, but would have nothing to do with this discussion anyway.

hit the 12 vs what?

 

[mnmike]

so if im dealing to 2 players and they are doing pretty good in the shoe (6-8 decks) and a new player sits down at the table and they ask him to wait for the shoe to end and he comes in anyway, your saying they had no reason to ask him to wait nor should they have right. if i still have the chart, ill scan it in and post it that she gave us

The players have the right to ask, and the new guy has the right to refuse, I'll usually say I'll wait until you lose a hand, but no way am I sitting there 10 min if it's just barely into the shoe.

 

[mnmike]

hit the 12 vs what?

Huh? This thread is about 12 vs a 2, is it not?

 

[festeringZit]

Can someone explain to me the negative and positive of card counting?

I have a really good memory so I would be good at counting cards if I know how.

There is no negative, other than it takes more concentration, and if you're there to gamble, you may not want to take the effort. If you are drastically
spreading your bets along with the count you do risk getting booted.

A hi/low count is very simple. You start with a 0 count whenever there is a shuffle, and for every 10 or Ace that comes out, you add 1 to the count, and
for every 2-6 you subtract one from the count. You then have to estimate the amount of decks left, and divide the
"running count" by the amount of estimated decks left to get a "true count." So, if you are playing single deck, and the running count
is 2 and you are half-way through the deck, the "true count" is 2/.5 = 4. If you are playing 6 deck, and the running count is 6
and there are 3 decks left, then the "true count" is 6/3 = 2.

After you get better at it, it becomes second nature. I don't even count each card in my counting process, because after a while you can just scan the
table and your brain notices that 10-3-2-10 (bust) hand for example cancels itself out, so your brain doesn't even do the math, it just ignores that hand.

I start raising my bets as high as I think I can get away with when the true count gets above 2. There are also lots of basic strategy adjustments that you
can make along with the count, the most common one is deciding to hit/stand on 16 vs dealer 10. If the count is positive you stand, if negative you hit.

Look up Don Schlessinger's Illustrious 18 for the first 18 strategy adjustments to learn when counting.

http://bjmath.com/bjmath/tcindex/i18index.htm

Those are the basics.

 

[kidman232]

Huh? This thread is about 12 vs a 2, is it not?

no, most of it has been about a 12 vs a 5/6. i didnt see a problem with doubleing down on the 12 vs a 5/6 and they are trying to educate me on why im stupid

 

[mnmike]

my stragety chart from our dealer instructor has the player doubleing on 12 vs a 4-6, so maybe that is was is altering my view, like i said, i was never a big bj player before hand

Let me guess, that strategy card says that players should take even money too? It's amazing sometimes the dumb comments that come from dealers(not talking about you, but in general)

 

[CHOPTALK]

I have access to a 2 deck table close to me.
I dont know of any 1 decks.
So you are saying at the beginning of the shoe divide by 2 then after the shoe is to the halfway mark divide by one?

 

[terps1313]

Not quite true. If you are a counter (like I am), you don't want idiots at the table eating up extra cards by splitting hands and playing multiple hands. when the count
is positive. That being said, you want them eating up cards when the count is negative...

Couldnt the idiot just as easily eat up low cards making the count even juicier?

 

[kidman232]

its just the standard chart that u see online, but had the double down on 12 on it. if i come i see it in my papers ill have to put it up against a standard one i see online

 

[CHOPTALK]

no, most of it has been about a 12 vs a 5/6. i didnt see a problem with doubleing down on the 12 vs a 5/6 and they are trying to educate me on why im stupid

I would not even take a hit there much less a DD.

 

[mnmike]

no, most of it has been about a 12 vs a 5/6. i didnt see a problem with doubleing down on the 12 vs a 5/6 and they are trying to educate me on why im stupid

doubling a 12 is madness, simple as that, it is never, ever the right thing to do. a dealer will never bust even half the time with a 5 or 6 showing. Quite frankly, there is no discussion, there's a right way to play, and a wrong way, discussion is irrelevant.

 

[boatboatboat]

a dealer will never bust even half the time with a 5 or 6 showing.

What are the odds with a EV deck/card count that a dealer WILL bust with a 5 showing and also with a 6 showing?