It sounds like to me that many of you guys who are so critical of people like me who believe with certainty that God exists that you are looking so hard for what you can tell we see and you are almost jealous that we have found it. THat has a negative tone, but it's not meant to be. I can sense the searching that is going on in many of these posts.
So, when someone asks me why I believe in God, I can't say "I just know".??? Why??? Why in the hell do I have to justify my belief in God to you?? Is that my duty? If you are searching for a reason to believe in Him, I understand, but in no way does that give you the right to be so vindictive and persecuting of my beliefs. It's like a game to some of you guys and you need to make it so analytic and academic. Some people believe because we believe. Because we have personal experiences with the God we know. All this fucking bull shit about "well so He helped you while 13 females got raped, an infant died in his mothers hands, etc etc etc."" fuck that. So, because all that other stuff happened that means that He didn't answer my prayer?? Or, an even more cognitive miser out there would claim that "God is letting that happen" or even "God did that to those people." Listen, there is more out there than just a heavenly spirit, there are plenty of evil spirits and satan manifests himself in many ways. Spritual warfare is going on at all times.
I just felt like chiming in because the persecution and evil tones are very very thick in this thread, it feels as though it is an attack.
So, when someone asks me why I believe in God, I can't say "I just know".??? Why??? Why in the hell do I have to justify my belief in God to you?? Is that my duty? If you are searching for a reason to believe in Him, I understand, but in no way does that give you the right to be so vindictive and persecuting of my beliefs. It's like a game to some of you guys and you need to make it so analytic and academic. Some people believe because we believe. Because we have personal experiences with the God we know. All this fucking bull shit about "well so He helped you while 13 females got raped, an infant died in his mothers hands, etc etc etc."" fuck that. So, because all that other stuff happened that means that He didn't answer my prayer?? Or, an even more cognitive miser out there would claim that "God is letting that happen" or even "God did that to those people." Listen, there is more out there than just a heavenly spirit, there are plenty of evil spirits and satan manifests himself in many ways. Spritual warfare is going on at all times.
I just felt like chiming in because the persecution and evil tones are very very thick in this thread, it feels as though it is an attack.
GameBreaker -
I have no problem with anyone believing that there is a god...but when someone uses the word "know," that irritates me. My definition of KNOWING something is that you have factual evidence that supports it. You can prove that water is essential to staying alive. You cannot prove that there is a god.
I fully understand that you BELIEVE that there's a god. But I don't see how you KNOW there is. Big difference, IMO.
Don't think anyone is trying to pick a fight in this thread, either...but it's a very sensitive topic, obviously. Tempers are bound to flare.
I have no problem with anyone believing that there is a god...but when someone uses the word "know," that irritates me. My definition of KNOWING something is that you have factual evidence that supports it. You can prove that water is essential to staying alive. You cannot prove that there is a god.
I fully understand that you BELIEVE that there's a god. But I don't see how you KNOW there is. Big difference, IMO.
Don't think anyone is trying to pick a fight in this thread, either...but it's a very sensitive topic, obviously. Tempers are bound to flare.
GameBreaker said:
Not trying to be critical here at all. How can you be angry at someone or attack someone for believing in God?
It's not your duty to convince anyone in your belief in God. You can participate in this thread, or you can choose to ignore it. But forgive me for trying to see what you see and know what you know and believe what you believe. Im trying to figure out what I am missing. You see, a lot of people say "I just know" because of nature/nurture. They grew up around it. The thought of God being a "fairytale" to control scoeity, was never brought up to them.
I want to see what other people see....and I'm trying to weed through to find the "true" believers so I can get some real opinions. Not, my mom was and my dad was so I was raised this way, and I actually dont know why I believe, I just do because it's all Ive ever known.
I think a lot of people believe in God because that was how they were raised. They were, for lack of a better word, "brainwashed" when they were young to believe in God because his parents did, and his parents had friends that did, and his parents friends had sons and daughters and their friends did. And they all went to church.
He sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you are awake. He knows if you've been bad or good so be good for goodness sake. He's making a list, he's checking it twice, he's gonna find out whos naughty or nice.
Sound familiar? Society is about control. Making sure there is good behavior. That people arent running around killing each other, stealing, murdering, raping. What if God is a glorified version of Santa Claus? Not saying it is, just a what if? Comes from the same religion.
My post to Chuck Luck is saying how is it a "LOCK" that God exists because he survived from an illness?
I dont know. Im just looking for something more than "He works in mysterious ways" everytime an issue arises that may potentially disprove God.
AM I trying to be critical of it? No. I'm trying to learn.
So, I'm trying to weed through the people that say they believe, because they just do. And find a guy like Blue Edwards, who seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject and hear out what a guy like him has to say.
Because Im trying to see the other side.
I just dont want to hear the "He works in mysterious ways" cop out. So, once again, I apologize if I sound critical.
Boxslayer32 said:
Well according to the good book it is his duty to convince people to believe in GOD.
The bible says to be a fisher of men, and to shine your light. Hes only doing what he is told to do in the good book.
So please forgive him and turn the other check.
By the way, I vote YES.
Although there is no 100% physical proof. Evolution is about the most ridiculous theroy ever created.
Proof enough is that Jesus was predicted to come to earth hundreds of years before he was born. Check Isaiah. and Daniel, etc.
Or were those lucky guesses?
There will never be "proof" for you non-believers until it is too late.
Until then, you can carry on in your own selfish ways going through life trying to please yourself-and then what? What did you accomplish?
You made a million dollars? You got married and lived happily after?
You came into the world with nothing, and you will leave with nothing.
So tell me what gaining everything in this world for yourself is going to get you when you are gone?
Or were those lucky guesses?
There will never be "proof" for you non-believers until it is too late.
Until then, you can carry on in your own selfish ways going through life trying to please yourself-and then what? What did you accomplish?
You made a million dollars? You got married and lived happily after?
You came into the world with nothing, and you will leave with nothing.
So tell me what gaining everything in this world for yourself is going to get you when you are gone?
Evolution is real however it does not prove or disprove God.
The people who believe in a God are probably the smarter ones to an extent. If there is a God, then they will be able to stand tall in the afterlife and say "See I told you so" to everyone else. However if the people who do not believe are correct, no one will know because there will be nothing and no one around. So hedging your bet is probably not a bad choice here.
There may very well be a God and I hope there is, however the proof cannot be some fairy tale called the Bible or because some dude said he was the son of God over 2000 years ago but nothing else has happened remotely close since then.
About the chances of living and dying, that is life. Those are the chances and percentages. There are people that have a 5% chance of living that are going to pull through. There are people who are perfectly healthy that will die suddenly. Everyday life can explain this. Crazy shit happens everyday and things that people call miracles happen everyday. However the crazy shit and miracles are a lower percentage and tend to be on opposing sides of the bell shaped curve.
Holy shit I am hammered. I am going to bed now.
The people who believe in a God are probably the smarter ones to an extent. If there is a God, then they will be able to stand tall in the afterlife and say "See I told you so" to everyone else. However if the people who do not believe are correct, no one will know because there will be nothing and no one around. So hedging your bet is probably not a bad choice here.
There may very well be a God and I hope there is, however the proof cannot be some fairy tale called the Bible or because some dude said he was the son of God over 2000 years ago but nothing else has happened remotely close since then.
About the chances of living and dying, that is life. Those are the chances and percentages. There are people that have a 5% chance of living that are going to pull through. There are people who are perfectly healthy that will die suddenly. Everyday life can explain this. Crazy shit happens everyday and things that people call miracles happen everyday. However the crazy shit and miracles are a lower percentage and tend to be on opposing sides of the bell shaped curve.
Holy shit I am hammered. I am going to bed now.
I don't have my King James in front of me at the moment, but the Bible is very clear about this: Man is naturally in rebellion against God, His mere existence as creator defies logic. It's simply beyond human intelligence to grasp the concept of God. And that's the biggest mistake someone can make when trying to understand the Bible.. the moment we try "making sense" or applying human "logic" and modern-day "science" to the word of God, the further away we get. Some of the most brilliant minds in history like Einstein and Newton couldn't explain certain principles and could only conclude that they were the work of God.
Every word in the Bible comes from the mouth of God. The Bible not only serves as a timeline of history, but more importanty, as a guide to our individual salvation.
HARRIS:
you know you might try to think about taking jesus christ as your savior instead of foooling around with this shit.
DORN:
shit Harris
CERRANO
Ahhhhhh heysus......i like him very much...but he no help with curve ball.
HARRIS:
Are you trying to say that jesus christ cant hit a curve ball?????
you know you might try to think about taking jesus christ as your savior instead of foooling around with this shit.
DORN:
shit Harris
CERRANO
Ahhhhhh heysus......i like him very much...but he no help with curve ball.
HARRIS:
Are you trying to say that jesus christ cant hit a curve ball?????
If you look at all the cultures of the world, from the most advanced like the American/European culture, right down to the most secluded and backward bushmen out there, almost every one of those cultures has a belief in some sort of higher being or god.
I think it is just human nature to believe such a thing exists.
I think it is just human nature to believe such a thing exists.
This is the way I've pretty much always looked at it. Absolutely can not stand organized religion. It's been said (Stanley Milgram, Generation X) that over 95% of all wars in recorded history were due to differences in relgious beliefs. Unreal. Something that you would think would draw people together only causes so much violence and death. Senseless killing over different fucking fairy tale stories.
I've always thought that the bible was created to produce social conformity, laws, etc. I think that was the original intention, along with accumulation of power and weath of course. Very easy to trick the people in a time where mass communication was very, very slow. Now organized religion is just a straight up money maker - has been always, I guess. One of the most successful scams ever? You bet. It's easy to convince people to believe what they want to believe...why not make shitloads of money off of it? You can never be disproven.
As far as the original question in this thread:
What is "god"? You tell me and I'll tell you if I believe or not. As fars as what the mainstream description of god...c'mon. I believe if I put a loaded gun to my head and pull the trigger I'm going to die. If I jump off a very high buidling I'm going to die. I believe in that shit. I don't believe in what society tells me god is. It all sounds nice, but c'mon.
I had a long conversation with my brother and dad about religion the other night. It is all very confusing. Speaking in absolutes, I believe, is where the danger begins. The bible is full of contradictions which must be recognized and I guess that is what makes it pretty confusing.
I think the rules a religion sets are contradictory because some Christians believe you must follow them, but God is the ultimate judge. All very confusing, but I am not ready to give up on the possibility of God just because religion has complicated some things. I guess we are all in a constant struggle, but I don't think I'll ever be sure.
I think the rules a religion sets are contradictory because some Christians believe you must follow them, but God is the ultimate judge. All very confusing, but I am not ready to give up on the possibility of God just because religion has complicated some things. I guess we are all in a constant struggle, but I don't think I'll ever be sure.
