Interesting thread...a very complex situation here...
I would be interested in whether evidence exists to prove that wsex did indeed try to send an email before the start of the match. Or maybe a witness or two!?
Personally, if I were the manager, I would make sure to have SOME evidence BEFORE the start of the game to show my intention to cancel the bets. If nothing else, call a few people like the Rx mods for example (or any neutral party) before the game and tell them you are cancelling the bets. At least you will have some witnesses in that case.
If there is no evidence, then I would be inclined to believe that it was discovered too late.
If WSEX cannot provide evidence, then I think they should be candid about their past acceptance of multiple bets, particularly in soccer. What has been the practice in the past? The more openness we have here the more we have to go on to decide what is fair. A haphazard or ad hoc policy would not look too good and a no comment would certainly arouse suspicion.
I should say I think Revere is a complete idiot for making those bets. It should be obvious that he's getting himself into trouble. It is obvious that soccer is a less important sport than baseball at WSEX. This is clear from the number of betting options, the position on the list, the number of times it's referenced etc. The 500 max. per entry on the betting screen compared to baseball's 2500 should also give a clue. If WSEX accepts up to 2500 for soccer, then why wouldn't they make the wagering screen look the same as baseball? In any case, nobody in his right mind could expect that the maximum bet accepted for soccer would be higher than the 2500 posted limit for baseball, so unless WSEX has accepted larger wagers from Revere in the past (ie. more than 5x the maximum on one screen), there is no way one could justify a larger payment than $3000 to Revere, and even that is a stretch IMO. He simply had to KNOW that this would happen. It is obvious even to a total fool. And being stupider than a total fool is no excuse, even if it were true.
I think the key thing we need next is a statement from WSEX answering my questions above and then we can proceed from there.
Just my 2c with a mod hat on.
I would be interested in whether evidence exists to prove that wsex did indeed try to send an email before the start of the match. Or maybe a witness or two!?
Personally, if I were the manager, I would make sure to have SOME evidence BEFORE the start of the game to show my intention to cancel the bets. If nothing else, call a few people like the Rx mods for example (or any neutral party) before the game and tell them you are cancelling the bets. At least you will have some witnesses in that case.
If there is no evidence, then I would be inclined to believe that it was discovered too late.
If WSEX cannot provide evidence, then I think they should be candid about their past acceptance of multiple bets, particularly in soccer. What has been the practice in the past? The more openness we have here the more we have to go on to decide what is fair. A haphazard or ad hoc policy would not look too good and a no comment would certainly arouse suspicion.
I should say I think Revere is a complete idiot for making those bets. It should be obvious that he's getting himself into trouble. It is obvious that soccer is a less important sport than baseball at WSEX. This is clear from the number of betting options, the position on the list, the number of times it's referenced etc. The 500 max. per entry on the betting screen compared to baseball's 2500 should also give a clue. If WSEX accepts up to 2500 for soccer, then why wouldn't they make the wagering screen look the same as baseball? In any case, nobody in his right mind could expect that the maximum bet accepted for soccer would be higher than the 2500 posted limit for baseball, so unless WSEX has accepted larger wagers from Revere in the past (ie. more than 5x the maximum on one screen), there is no way one could justify a larger payment than $3000 to Revere, and even that is a stretch IMO. He simply had to KNOW that this would happen. It is obvious even to a total fool. And being stupider than a total fool is no excuse, even if it were true.
I think the key thing we need next is a statement from WSEX answering my questions above and then we can proceed from there.
Just my 2c with a mod hat on.
STEVE LETS BE RESONABLE MEN HERE IF REVERE HAD LOST HIS WAGERS COULD YOU SEE WSEX SAYING HERE YOU GO REVERE ENJOY YOUR 39,500 DOLLARS WE ARE PUTTING BACK INTO YOUR ACCOUNT AND THANKS FOR TRYING TO SCAM US WE REALLY ENJOY YOUR BUSINESS,THANKS FOR TRYING TO ROB US REVERE BUT WE WANT TO RETURN YOUR MONEY,YOUR PAL STEVE FROM WSEX.LETS LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD HUH STEVE ITS A CUT THROAT BUSINES AND YOUR BLEEDING LIKE A BASTARD PAY UP.
Darryl.. I was wondering also why a big time bettor like revere would not "call" the entire thing in instead of all the little bets. im not saying he was wrong to make all of them that is his choice but if im betting 40,000 or whatever im calling and talking to someone....Just my opinion
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wsexsteve:
The bets weren't cancelled officially off
our system until after the match. There were 2 reasons for this. First there was no supervisor in at the time who could cancel wagers. The second reason was I wanted to speak with him and decide how much action we were going to accept at that number.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good thing that you are honest,but if a reputable book cancels a bet after the match,then maybe we should all quit gampling offshore!
The bets weren't cancelled officially off
our system until after the match. There were 2 reasons for this. First there was no supervisor in at the time who could cancel wagers. The second reason was I wanted to speak with him and decide how much action we were going to accept at that number.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good thing that you are honest,but if a reputable book cancels a bet after the match,then maybe we should all quit gampling offshore!
The second reason was I wanted to speak with him and decide how much action we were going to accept at that number.
so you already know that you wont take that much action, so you'll just let it ride and pay out only 500 if he wins?!
it's a flipp'n England Premier soccer game!!! you're a top 10 book, out of like 1800 of them. you make it sound as if he's the only guy with 50k on the game. if he phone beted it, it woulda been a 3-5 minute conversation tops.
so you already know that you wont take that much action, so you'll just let it ride and pay out only 500 if he wins?!
it's a flipp'n England Premier soccer game!!! you're a top 10 book, out of like 1800 of them. you make it sound as if he's the only guy with 50k on the game. if he phone beted it, it woulda been a 3-5 minute conversation tops.
Why is everyone concerned about the timing of the cancellation.
The line was a correct line. WSEX accepted the bets. They had no business cancelling the bets in the first place.
The only exception would be is if Revere went over the limits, but it doesn't appear that he did.
I'd like to know what Rever's betting patterns were in the past with WSEX. If WSEX accepted such betting patterns in the past, they had no business cancelling the bets even if they were before the game started. Period.
The line was a correct line. WSEX accepted the bets. They had no business cancelling the bets in the first place.
The only exception would be is if Revere went over the limits, but it doesn't appear that he did.
I'd like to know what Rever's betting patterns were in the past with WSEX. If WSEX accepted such betting patterns in the past, they had no business cancelling the bets even if they were before the game started. Period.
Darryl, very good points.
I've mentioned the past playing pattern question at least twice before this, and the player has said nothing (and the book probably isn't at liberty to mention without the player's okay).
This does have a LOT to do with this.......If this guy never bet more than $2K a game until this one......um, see ya.
I've mentioned the past playing pattern question at least twice before this, and the player has said nothing (and the book probably isn't at liberty to mention without the player's okay).
This does have a LOT to do with this.......If this guy never bet more than $2K a game until this one......um, see ya.
Darryl Parsons
Great post, but, it is difficult for the two of them to come to an agreement, when the player continues to refuse to communicate with the book.
Maybe it is just me, but, reveres refusal to call WSEX, as requested several times by Steve over the last gew hours, doesn't make Revere's case any stronger, to say the least.
Great post, but, it is difficult for the two of them to come to an agreement, when the player continues to refuse to communicate with the book.
Maybe it is just me, but, reveres refusal to call WSEX, as requested several times by Steve over the last gew hours, doesn't make Revere's case any stronger, to say the least.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wsexsteve:
D2bets,
It is a little complicated. I was notified about 30 minutes before the match about the problem. I instructed the girls to contact him
and cancel the bets. We were unable to reach him. The bets weren't cancelled officially off
our system until after the match. There were 2 reasons for this. First there was no supervisor in at the time who could cancel wagers. The second reason was I wanted to speak with him and decide how much action we were going to accept at that number.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, well now we get to the heart of the matter. 30 mins before the match was around 6:30 and if Revere's cut and paste was accurate they were cancelled at 11:30. That's 5 full hours after you were aware bets were wrongly placed. So you are saying that there was no way you could have had these wagers cancelled within those 5 hours? I'll leave that up to others in terms of reasonableness.
As to the "second reason", I'm a little confused, you were going to "decide how much action to take"? Why should there need to be a decision? If you have a particular maximum, that is it. What is your maximum for that type of soccer match and is that info displayed on your site anywhere? I take it that (after the match) YOU ended up deciding how much action you were going to take, and it was $500. I don't suppose the decision might have been different if the wager had ended up being a loser? You can never expect to be able to get ahold of someone on short order like that to make such a decision. That is why there are rules. If your rules call for a $500 maximum, then that is it. Cancel all above $500, no questions asked. Do let the player know ASAP, but there should be no discusssion. If you ahev no rule, then that is a serious problem. You've clearly stated limits for many sports. If you do not for this sport then de facto the maximum is whatever was accepted by the system. However, even in such a case I'm willing to allow you to partially cancel IF and only IF you cancel IMMEDIATELY and notify the player immediately by all known means of contact. 5 hours is not reasonable. I'm sorry, I don't buy the 'no manager on duty' thing. Not for 5 hours. Maybe for 30 minuts, but not 5 hours. Time is of the essence and my opinion is you blew it.
In any case, if nothing else, I hope this incident convinces you to invest in some new software that will that will not allow bets to be accepted above your limits. That would avoid confusion and avoid this ugly affair from ever happening again. I've always believed that if a bet is accepted then it mus be within the book's limits because otherwise it woudln;t be accepted. Every other book that I'm aware of has this built into their software. How a supposed top book could not have this is beyond me.
Pay the man, boot the man (if you wish), learn from your mistake and invest in some new software. That's it.
D2bets,
It is a little complicated. I was notified about 30 minutes before the match about the problem. I instructed the girls to contact him
and cancel the bets. We were unable to reach him. The bets weren't cancelled officially off
our system until after the match. There were 2 reasons for this. First there was no supervisor in at the time who could cancel wagers. The second reason was I wanted to speak with him and decide how much action we were going to accept at that number.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, well now we get to the heart of the matter. 30 mins before the match was around 6:30 and if Revere's cut and paste was accurate they were cancelled at 11:30. That's 5 full hours after you were aware bets were wrongly placed. So you are saying that there was no way you could have had these wagers cancelled within those 5 hours? I'll leave that up to others in terms of reasonableness.
As to the "second reason", I'm a little confused, you were going to "decide how much action to take"? Why should there need to be a decision? If you have a particular maximum, that is it. What is your maximum for that type of soccer match and is that info displayed on your site anywhere? I take it that (after the match) YOU ended up deciding how much action you were going to take, and it was $500. I don't suppose the decision might have been different if the wager had ended up being a loser? You can never expect to be able to get ahold of someone on short order like that to make such a decision. That is why there are rules. If your rules call for a $500 maximum, then that is it. Cancel all above $500, no questions asked. Do let the player know ASAP, but there should be no discusssion. If you ahev no rule, then that is a serious problem. You've clearly stated limits for many sports. If you do not for this sport then de facto the maximum is whatever was accepted by the system. However, even in such a case I'm willing to allow you to partially cancel IF and only IF you cancel IMMEDIATELY and notify the player immediately by all known means of contact. 5 hours is not reasonable. I'm sorry, I don't buy the 'no manager on duty' thing. Not for 5 hours. Maybe for 30 minuts, but not 5 hours. Time is of the essence and my opinion is you blew it.
In any case, if nothing else, I hope this incident convinces you to invest in some new software that will that will not allow bets to be accepted above your limits. That would avoid confusion and avoid this ugly affair from ever happening again. I've always believed that if a bet is accepted then it mus be within the book's limits because otherwise it woudln;t be accepted. Every other book that I'm aware of has this built into their software. How a supposed top book could not have this is beyond me.
Pay the man, boot the man (if you wish), learn from your mistake and invest in some new software. That's it.
WHATS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT REVERES PAST BETTING STYLE THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT,IF HE WAS A NICKLE PLAYER AND JUST HIT THE LOTTERY OR INHERITED MILLIONS HE MIGHT HAVE DECIDED TO STEP IT UP.SO WHO CARES THE MAN PUT UP 40 GRAND AND MADE A BET IF HE LOST HE LOSES 40 THOUSAND DOLLARS HE GAMBLED AND WON SO HIS PAST BETTING STYLE MEANS NOTHING.
Is it me or everybody else, why were the bets cancelled. line manger sleeping....., why didn't you hedge of somewhere steve, you are showing yourself to be gutless.
It looks like your making alot of excuses for this , your book made error after error here in this case. Bullshit excuses no supervisor etc etc - just does not cut the mustard.
shrink should mediate this one
It looks like your making alot of excuses for this , your book made error after error here in this case. Bullshit excuses no supervisor etc etc - just does not cut the mustard.
shrink should mediate this one
