Will Smith thinks his black friends are representative of the American black community? gotta love the narcissism and ignorance of entertainers
Unreal. He's like: "WHY???!!??"
we can't have Media be Exalting Black Fathers?
Too Much LEAD flying, Blood being SHED, Stale Prince.
I wanted to say "Thanks" for your last comments RollTide in the other thread on:
Rubicon and Dustin Hoffman's Leading Role in "Luck" and especially on your thots about how that Series tempted to Lift The Curtain oh Horse Racing.
Censorship is among the most fascinating concepts to me and I must admit....your Brief Posts on 'Luck'
have caused me to Think. Wonder.
Thanks for your very Sharp Input. :toast:
OK You got me. You're Very "talented". Last Time you manage this though and this last one just to say:
"its not gonna work"
Put me in your Signature, Insult ACEBB, Zit, The Centaur, Mountain, Boss415, Sheriff Joe Arapaio
or any other Excellent Posters here, guys who without whom RX Farm would be a Dilapidated Ghost Town flooded with Boring No Thing.
"its not gonna work"
New Day Rising Shiterd, on RX Farm, New Day Rising Sun of that New Day Gun' 'Luminate a VitTurd-less Farm.
Bell be Tollin', Useless.
You should begin Running Now.
New Day Rising Shiterd, on RX Farm, New Day Rising Sun of that New Day Gun' 'Luminate a VitTurd-less Farm.
Bell be Tollin', Useless.
You should begin Running Now.
"New Day" rising
Elsewhere
as well.
Light Will Come.
Your Grandchildren will not Abide Our Darkness, Our Primitive Ways
these will Fall Away. Like Worm to Butterfly, Cocoon.
You'd be so Proud of Her, or Him. Words = No Hope to describe, relate to You how Proud you'd be or How Incredible what your Great Great Granchid does.
We be like: Ancient Mesopotamia, Messed Up Pot of Tamia (Spice, from The Hebrew) Our "Spice" be Tired, Dried Out, Bad
but Your Great Great GrandChild's Spice, what they bring
We are gonna seem like Ancient Mesopotamia compared to what we saw in The Jetsons, what they Bring here.
No Nostradamus stuff this. Research what the advent of the New Communication brought by The Printing Press did to Humanity, how some guy inventing a means of Mass Communication between Humans affected (transformed) Humanity.
Internet, iPhone etc.
Whats come Communication-wise within our lifetime
is a Billion Times that Printing Press.
So Thus, the effect....what it does, the eventual Impact
will be what we saw with Printing Press times Infinity. Simple Handicapping....."The Game" called Life here.
OK You got me. You're Very "talented". Last Time you manage this though and this last one just to say:
"its not gonna work"
Put me in your Signature, Insult ACEBB, Zit, The Centaur, Mountain, Boss415, Sheriff Joe Arapaio
or any other Excellent Posters here, guys who without whom RX Farm would be a Dilapidated Ghost Town flooded with Boring No Thing.
"its not gonna work"
New Day Rising Shiterd, on RX Farm, New Day Rising Sun of that New Day Gun' 'Luminate a VitTurd-less Farm.
Bell be Tollin', Useless.
You should begin Running Now.
did you say joe, mountain, acebb, centaur and boss are excellent posters. Lmao. Thank god you have no credibility anywhere or you would have just lost it. They are some of the worse here. If not the worst.
Please show us how you came to that conclusion with one of your nonsense YouTube videos.
Damn Woah Chillingly On-Point: This one here (video Below).
Big Part of the Handicapping of this contest as well....
Black Youth be bringing such Deep Introspective Words about their Situation
The Realities of whats been Presented Them
Doe it really seem at all Logical that them 2, 3 Generations from now: Black Kids
are gonna be Bumpin' Evil
Still Writing Songs about "Bitches", Banging Those as a Badge of Merit?
Slangin' Death (Dope) In The Streets, destroying one's Brain with Purple Drank?
Shooting small pieces of Metal into other humans? From Guns?
Should be frikkin' easy to see that a new day is indeed coming. This Song here by way On Point, to Nature/Nurture Dialog. As so many songs are.
Us White Folks fully KNOW that Black Kids join The Gang for Specific Reasons.
And We 100% Know that Real Progress will never get made and Zero Real Lasting Hand Up to Black Youth
will ever come if we do not manage somehow to massively REDUCE the Flow of Cocaine and Heroin into this country.
Most Important thing we know is that if ever that happens, likely its not gonna come within OUR Lifetimes bcuz:
Our Politicians, Police and People who give them MONEY
are Never Ever Gonna Allow US to Escape That Demon.
You are a Complete Liar if you come off in here as being Unaware of why so much Death (Drugs) manages to get into USA
You know its bcuz Our Government Fully Allows this.
They get Kickbacks (Massive $$$$) from the sale of Drugs, on Local level (Police, Mayors, Senators, Congressman)
and TPTB, Private Prison Companies, make a Crap Ton if Money off Jailing Drug Offenders.
Medical Companies, Yuge $$$$ from Illegal Deadly Drugs successfully getting to USA
so as to Mess People Up.
Just the NARCAN Heroin Overdose Injectors that now every Police & Fire Departments, every EMT Paramedic Ambulance must carry, and several of them, they have to have bcuz H. Overdoses are so Rampant, due to the Fentynal thats coming from CHINA so Cheaply
How much Money do you imagine is getting spent on just those NARCAN Injectors?
Pfizer is making Big Money off of those. Or Whoever.
We will never be Brave Enough to Cut Off the MASSIVE BUSINESS, Yuge Economy, that is DRUGS.
Until We Do, No Real Change is Gonna Come to The Ghettos, The Inner Cities of USA.
Thats Reality.
So Is This:
For The Black Child:
In Part solely bcuz of Drugs. And The Industry that Drugs are. The big $$$$ that Our Politicians, Police Depts and Powerful others
earn from fuggin' Illegal Deadly Drugs.
They are Martyring People, for Money. Simple as that.
Big Part of the Handicapping of this contest as well....
Black Youth be bringing such Deep Introspective Words about their Situation
The Realities of whats been Presented Them
Doe it really seem at all Logical that them 2, 3 Generations from now: Black Kids
are gonna be Bumpin' Evil
Still Writing Songs about "Bitches", Banging Those as a Badge of Merit?
Slangin' Death (Dope) In The Streets, destroying one's Brain with Purple Drank?
Shooting small pieces of Metal into other humans? From Guns?
Should be frikkin' easy to see that a new day is indeed coming. This Song here by way On Point, to Nature/Nurture Dialog. As so many songs are.
Us White Folks fully KNOW that Black Kids join The Gang for Specific Reasons.
And We 100% Know that Real Progress will never get made and Zero Real Lasting Hand Up to Black Youth
will ever come if we do not manage somehow to massively REDUCE the Flow of Cocaine and Heroin into this country.
Most Important thing we know is that if ever that happens, likely its not gonna come within OUR Lifetimes bcuz:
Our Politicians, Police and People who give them MONEY
are Never Ever Gonna Allow US to Escape That Demon.
You are a Complete Liar if you come off in here as being Unaware of why so much Death (Drugs) manages to get into USA
You know its bcuz Our Government Fully Allows this.
They get Kickbacks (Massive $$$$) from the sale of Drugs, on Local level (Police, Mayors, Senators, Congressman)
and TPTB, Private Prison Companies, make a Crap Ton if Money off Jailing Drug Offenders.
Medical Companies, Yuge $$$$ from Illegal Deadly Drugs successfully getting to USA
so as to Mess People Up.
Just the NARCAN Heroin Overdose Injectors that now every Police & Fire Departments, every EMT Paramedic Ambulance must carry, and several of them, they have to have bcuz H. Overdoses are so Rampant, due to the Fentynal thats coming from CHINA so Cheaply
How much Money do you imagine is getting spent on just those NARCAN Injectors?
Pfizer is making Big Money off of those. Or Whoever.
We will never be Brave Enough to Cut Off the MASSIVE BUSINESS, Yuge Economy, that is DRUGS.
Until We Do, No Real Change is Gonna Come to The Ghettos, The Inner Cities of USA.
Thats Reality.
So Is This:
For The Black Child:
In Part solely bcuz of Drugs. And The Industry that Drugs are. The big $$$$ that Our Politicians, Police Depts and Powerful others
earn from fuggin' Illegal Deadly Drugs.
They are Martyring People, for Money. Simple as that.
F%$&kin' Fu%#&khead knows absolutely NoF%$@ing thing about F%&*$ing Dragons, either.
Damn. Pharrell Betrayed me COMPLETELY with the Message there, Wrong Song. I was wanting that one where he rapped about "Reaching For The Sky"
Clueless, No Clue how that song instead, wound up there.
Great Example for HOW TIRED Preaching to Black Youth: "Slanging and/or Doing Dope" is something they should try to do.
Or they need to try to be a Rap Star
cuz them things are all that a Black Kid can possibly succeed at. has any hope at all of using to Pull Themselves UP"
(Thanks, Pharrell)
Glorification of that and other Crap, the "thinking" that Sabotages Young Black People, sinks their Battle Ships like they in a Chess Match against Nazí Nodarovna Paikidze.
Pharrell Trips. Penthouse to the Outhouse sooperfast.
So, just to be clear, you're suggesting blacks (as a whole) are intellectually inferior to whites by NATURE. Like, from birth. Some kind of frontal cortex deficiency like Vlad used to argue?
Jayzus. Rewind on this Song "Young Nation" by Tru-Paz
Toronto-based hip hop group. Canada.
Canadian Hip Hop. "What will Mankind invent next?"
Quoted that stuff above cuz Ladeda's Reply Post was Massively +EV to The Dialog.
RePosting this Song cuz it slid by Beneath The Radar as a Vid I posted in support of that YUGE Evolution that
WE WILL SEE
amidst Black Youth, in coming generations
but what this song also says
does not only SUPPORT Prop(osition) brought to this conversation about whether +EV may exist in Repatriation
(a suggestion that will get a guy crucified then the cross that poor guy who is just proposing Option of maybe Solution's Cross they nail him to lit up set ablaze...)
but a certain line in this song Proves a Convo that includes discussion of potential Value in Repatriation, is possible to have. With some Black Intelligentsia anyways.
Lo and Behold, heres some Black Men saying the same thing, Broaching The Subject.
1:30 to 1:39 which concludes with, just prior to that 1:39 Mark:
"The Resurrection of Marcus (Garvey)
Messiah is Near."
Jesus.
This Proves that A Dialog is Possible. Black People, a few anyways, are willing to Discuss all possible Answers, possible Solutions. This proves that there are some Black People who are not gonna let themselves get Hung Up on "taboo" thus Limiting a Dialog thus Torpedo'ing Possible Progress
before We even sit down at the damn table.
1:30 to 1:39....My Lord. That was a Bomb. Tru-Paz dropped a Bomb there. Among the best and most Lethal damn Bombs made of Words, thats ever been dropped.
Someone Twit or Message via Fakebook them Kids at UofWisconsin with Link to this Thread. And lets get this Discussion ON. Lets Hear from those who began this conversation here. I know they have some Ideas, some Input they'd like to make.
And I'd Love to Hear that.
238 Views, over the course of 5 Years and 3 months, since November 2011. On this Video which is on the Actual YouTube of this Brilliant Canadian Band.
WTF Planet am I on here?
how tf has this great video with such a deep amazing message only got 238 Views over the course of 1876 Days
I suck at Math but feels like that is One (1) view every about 7 days.
If So: Lord. Take Us to The River Lawd. Throw us in The Water.
1:37-1:39 bahBoom.
Tru-Paz been recording and releasing hip hop music since 2001.
Give 'em some Love Yo.
Tru-Paz's YouTube Channel
"and now the time has come....Revolution." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eybrCrgYYkk
irrelevant? hardly. Actually glad you made that statement-- i see it time and time again with people trying to advance a position with identical twin studies . Casually throw it in. Needless to say, the Dutch study which looked at the last 50 yrs of available twin studies was very telling
in this case its clear you were trying to use twin studies as support to your claim that black's are inferior intellectually and THEN make the leap that because such, they have a higher failure rate (imprisonment) rate in society. Correct? You can conclude whatever you want, but please be clear the twin studies dont advance your cause. And for the record neither does that longitudinal study you posted-- actually, the authors themselves made no conclusion
how can two people who have identical genes become so different?
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jun/02/twins-identical-genes-different-health-study
barbara Oliver has had an intriguing relationship with her identical twin sister, Christine, over the decades. Throughout their childhoods, they were effectively treated as two versions of the one person: they were dressed in exactly the same manner and were given the same hairstyles. "Our parents did everything to stress how similar we were," Barbara recalls.
But when Barbara and Christine reached adolescence in the 60s, the pattern changed. The girls could choose their own clothes and adopted very different fashions. "I wore short skirts. Christine had longer dresses and jackets," says Barbara. At the same time, differences in their personalities became more apparent. "Christine is more conscientious about what she does. I am more confident. That became increasingly obvious as the years went by," says Barbara.
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The Guardian's Science Weekly Is emergent quantum mechanics grounded in classical physics? - Science Weekly podcast
Does strange quantum behaviour emerge from run-of-the-mill classical physics? If so, what does this tell us about the fundamental nature of reality?
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</aside>Christine agrees. "I am more self-conscious and I suffer from serious depression. There is no sign of that in Barbara. We may be identical twins but we are very different in many ways."
Such a divergence might seem odd. After all, as identical twins, the pair have exactly the same genes. They are clones of each other. They also had an upbringing that accentuated their similarities. Nature and nurture would appear to have dealt them identical hands. Yet Barbara and Christine have ended up as dissimilar individuals.
Nor are they unusual, says Professor Tim Spector, head of twin research at King's College, London. Barbara and Christine, who enlisted with the college's twin studies unit several years ago, are like many identical twins. In some ways, they are very, very alike, in looks, for example. But in other ways, they are noticeably dissimilar – and that is far harder to explain. "We see it in so many different ways," says Spector. "For example, our research has shown that twins rarely die of the same disease. Yet they share many other features, such as height. It is not a straightforward business."
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It sounds baffling. After all, identical twins have the same genes, share the same womb and usually experience the same childhoods. "Most of the twins recruited to our study went to the same school and lived together, eating the same food for the first 18 or so years of their lives," says Spector, whose pioneering study celebrates its 21st birthday next month. "But the outcomes of their lives are often very different indeed."
It is an intriguing discovery and it forms the core of a new awareness of the behaviour of genes and their interactions with the environment, one that may explain the baffling roots of human variation, though Spector, when he started his study, had slightly less ambitious goals. In the 1990s, he was studying the roots of common ailments such as cataracts and arthritis. At the time, doctors dismissed these conditions as the results of wear and tear on patients' bodies as they grew older. These ailments were just something that people had to put up with. "However, I wanted to know why some people got hit quite early and not others," says Spector.
And that is where his study of twins began. By comparing identical and fraternal twins and their sensitivities to illnesses, it is possible to separate the genetic roots of conditions from their environmental influences. So Spector began recruiting them for his research and set up his unit at St Thomas' hospital, London. He did so at a time when the first breakthroughs in modern genetics were taking place. In the late 80s and early 90s, researchers – using the tools of modern molecular biology – were starting to pinpoint single genes that were responsible for deadly but relatively uncommon inherited ailments such as cystic fibrosis, Huntington's disease and muscular dystrophy. The roots of widespread ailments such as heart disease and diabetes, although more complex and possibly involving up to a dozen genes, would soon follow, it was expected.
"Scientists would analyse genes and find a link between a group of them with a disease," says Spector. "Thousands of these gene studies were carried out but most of them were false because the researchers did not or could not replicate their results. This was an era of hype. If you got a negative result, you simply didn't publish it: 90% of publications turned out to be rubbish."
One such study involved Spector's twin research. Work with them suggested that the vitamin D receptor gene was the single genetic cause of osteoporosis. An error in one variant of the gene made people susceptible to the condition, it appeared. The story made the cover of Nature, every scientist's dream, except that in this case, as in many others, the claim proved to be wrong. "It was a false dawn," Spector says. "We were simply mistaken."
Then came the Human Genome Project, in which the entire 3bn units of DNA that make up an individual's set of genes were decoded. That sequencing technology and more rigorous replication has transformed the study of individual variation and the work of the twin studies group. "We have 7,000 individual twins – and therefore 3,500 pairs of siblings – on our books here. Of these, about half have had their entire genome sequenced," added Spector.
Every year, day-long measuring sessions are held for groups of twins and a host of different parameters are studied. Blood samples are taken, bone density is calculated, lung function is assessed, x-rays taken and full body scans carried out, along with series of psychometric tests. "We go to these events about once a year and they are really great fun. I get to spend all that time with my sister," says Christine.
But what was thrown up by these sessions and the research carried out on the twins left geneticists puzzled. Instead of finding a dozen or so genes for common conditions such as obesity, researchers found that hundreds were involved. "In the case of osteoporosis, which we once thought was caused by a single mutant gene, we now believe that there may be 500 genes involved – interacting to trigger the disease in people at different ages," says Spector.
"These are genes that individually only account for 0.1% of susceptibility for a condition. And even then, these genes, in total, only seem to account for a fraction of the variance we see in the prevalence and severity of these conditions in the population. This phenomenon has a name: it is called missing heritability."
It is an effect you can see directly from the studies of identical twins carried out at St Thomas'. "We now began to look not at the similarities between identical twins but the differences. It was a shift in perception really. Our work shows that the heritability of your age at death is only about 25%. Similarly, there is only a 30% chance that if one identical twin gets heart disease the other one will as well, while the figure for rheumatoid arthritis is only about 15%."
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It is a baffling observation: individuals with identical genes and often very similar conditions of ubringing but who experience very different life outcomes. What could be the cause? The answer, says Spector, came to him in a Damascene moment four years ago. The causes of these differences were due to changes in the human epigenome, he realised.
"Essentially, epigenetics is the mechanism by which environmental changes alter the behaviour of our genes," he says. "This involves a process known as methylation, which occurs when a chemical known as methyl, which floats around the inside of our cells, attaches itself to our DNA. When it does so, it can inhibit or turn down the activity of a gene and block it from making a particular version of a protein in our bodies." Crucially, all sorts of life events can affect DNA methylation levels in our bodies: diet, illnesses, ageing, chemicals in the environment, smoking, drugs and medicines.
Thus epigenetic changes produce variation in disease patterns. And recent experiments carried out by Spector and his colleagues, in which they have looked at methylation levels in pairs of identical twins, back the theory. "We have studied identical twins who have different tolerances to pain and shown that they have different states of methylation. We have also produced similar results for depression, diabetes and breast cancer. In each case, we have found genes that are switched on in one twin and switched off in the other twin. This often determines whether or not they are likely to get a disease."
Epigenetic changes are not just simple environmental changes, however. They influence a person's genes and can have an effect that can last for two or three generations in extreme cases. For example, studies of the children and grandchildren of pregnant women who endured starvation in the second world war and in China in the 50s have revealed they tended to be smaller and more prone to diabetes and psychosis. These trends are put down to epigenetic changes.
"Essentially, they are a way to make short-term changes to a generation," says Spector. "A famine strikes but you cannot instantly alter your genes. But epigenetic changes allow you to produce children who are fatter or skinnier or whatever is best suited to the new circumstances. These changes will last for at least two or three generations, by which time you would hope the change in the environment will have passed. It may not, of course."
If nothing else, the idea of epigenetic changes explaining the variability in twin behaviour and illness strikes a chord with Christine. "The idea that I am different from my identical twin sister being due to life events makes sense. Barbara got married first. Many twins will tell you that when that happens the other twin is left grieving. That is how it felt to me. And later I suffered from leukaemia and I have also been divorced. That would leave a mark on anyone. Luck plays its part."
.................
just playing devil's advocate here............. We don't know what we don't know
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jun/02/twins-identical-genes-different-health-study
barbara Oliver has had an intriguing relationship with her identical twin sister, Christine, over the decades. Throughout their childhoods, they were effectively treated as two versions of the one person: they were dressed in exactly the same manner and were given the same hairstyles. "Our parents did everything to stress how similar we were," Barbara recalls.
But when Barbara and Christine reached adolescence in the 60s, the pattern changed. The girls could choose their own clothes and adopted very different fashions. "I wore short skirts. Christine had longer dresses and jackets," says Barbara. At the same time, differences in their personalities became more apparent. "Christine is more conscientious about what she does. I am more confident. That became increasingly obvious as the years went by," says Barbara.
<aside class="element element-rich-link element-rich-link--tag element--thumbnail element-rich-link--upgraded" data-component="rich-link-tag" data-link-name="rich-link-tag" style="float: left; margin: 0.3125rem 1.25rem 0.75rem -15rem; clear: both; width: 13.75rem; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: "Guardian Text Egyptian Web", Georgia, serif; font-size: medium;">
The Guardian's Science Weekly Is emergent quantum mechanics grounded in classical physics? - Science Weekly podcast
Does strange quantum behaviour emerge from run-of-the-mill classical physics? If so, what does this tell us about the fundamental nature of reality?
<svg width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" class="inline-arrow-in-circle__svg inline-icon__svg"></svg>
Listen
</aside>Christine agrees. "I am more self-conscious and I suffer from serious depression. There is no sign of that in Barbara. We may be identical twins but we are very different in many ways."
Such a divergence might seem odd. After all, as identical twins, the pair have exactly the same genes. They are clones of each other. They also had an upbringing that accentuated their similarities. Nature and nurture would appear to have dealt them identical hands. Yet Barbara and Christine have ended up as dissimilar individuals.
Nor are they unusual, says Professor Tim Spector, head of twin research at King's College, London. Barbara and Christine, who enlisted with the college's twin studies unit several years ago, are like many identical twins. In some ways, they are very, very alike, in looks, for example. But in other ways, they are noticeably dissimilar – and that is far harder to explain. "We see it in so many different ways," says Spector. "For example, our research has shown that twins rarely die of the same disease. Yet they share many other features, such as height. It is not a straightforward business."
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It is an intriguing discovery and it forms the core of a new awareness of the behaviour of genes and their interactions with the environment, one that may explain the baffling roots of human variation, though Spector, when he started his study, had slightly less ambitious goals. In the 1990s, he was studying the roots of common ailments such as cataracts and arthritis. At the time, doctors dismissed these conditions as the results of wear and tear on patients' bodies as they grew older. These ailments were just something that people had to put up with. "However, I wanted to know why some people got hit quite early and not others," says Spector.
And that is where his study of twins began. By comparing identical and fraternal twins and their sensitivities to illnesses, it is possible to separate the genetic roots of conditions from their environmental influences. So Spector began recruiting them for his research and set up his unit at St Thomas' hospital, London. He did so at a time when the first breakthroughs in modern genetics were taking place. In the late 80s and early 90s, researchers – using the tools of modern molecular biology – were starting to pinpoint single genes that were responsible for deadly but relatively uncommon inherited ailments such as cystic fibrosis, Huntington's disease and muscular dystrophy. The roots of widespread ailments such as heart disease and diabetes, although more complex and possibly involving up to a dozen genes, would soon follow, it was expected.
"Scientists would analyse genes and find a link between a group of them with a disease," says Spector. "Thousands of these gene studies were carried out but most of them were false because the researchers did not or could not replicate their results. This was an era of hype. If you got a negative result, you simply didn't publish it: 90% of publications turned out to be rubbish."
One such study involved Spector's twin research. Work with them suggested that the vitamin D receptor gene was the single genetic cause of osteoporosis. An error in one variant of the gene made people susceptible to the condition, it appeared. The story made the cover of Nature, every scientist's dream, except that in this case, as in many others, the claim proved to be wrong. "It was a false dawn," Spector says. "We were simply mistaken."
Then came the Human Genome Project, in which the entire 3bn units of DNA that make up an individual's set of genes were decoded. That sequencing technology and more rigorous replication has transformed the study of individual variation and the work of the twin studies group. "We have 7,000 individual twins – and therefore 3,500 pairs of siblings – on our books here. Of these, about half have had their entire genome sequenced," added Spector.
Every year, day-long measuring sessions are held for groups of twins and a host of different parameters are studied. Blood samples are taken, bone density is calculated, lung function is assessed, x-rays taken and full body scans carried out, along with series of psychometric tests. "We go to these events about once a year and they are really great fun. I get to spend all that time with my sister," says Christine.
But what was thrown up by these sessions and the research carried out on the twins left geneticists puzzled. Instead of finding a dozen or so genes for common conditions such as obesity, researchers found that hundreds were involved. "In the case of osteoporosis, which we once thought was caused by a single mutant gene, we now believe that there may be 500 genes involved – interacting to trigger the disease in people at different ages," says Spector.
"These are genes that individually only account for 0.1% of susceptibility for a condition. And even then, these genes, in total, only seem to account for a fraction of the variance we see in the prevalence and severity of these conditions in the population. This phenomenon has a name: it is called missing heritability."
It is an effect you can see directly from the studies of identical twins carried out at St Thomas'. "We now began to look not at the similarities between identical twins but the differences. It was a shift in perception really. Our work shows that the heritability of your age at death is only about 25%. Similarly, there is only a 30% chance that if one identical twin gets heart disease the other one will as well, while the figure for rheumatoid arthritis is only about 15%."
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"Essentially, epigenetics is the mechanism by which environmental changes alter the behaviour of our genes," he says. "This involves a process known as methylation, which occurs when a chemical known as methyl, which floats around the inside of our cells, attaches itself to our DNA. When it does so, it can inhibit or turn down the activity of a gene and block it from making a particular version of a protein in our bodies." Crucially, all sorts of life events can affect DNA methylation levels in our bodies: diet, illnesses, ageing, chemicals in the environment, smoking, drugs and medicines.
Thus epigenetic changes produce variation in disease patterns. And recent experiments carried out by Spector and his colleagues, in which they have looked at methylation levels in pairs of identical twins, back the theory. "We have studied identical twins who have different tolerances to pain and shown that they have different states of methylation. We have also produced similar results for depression, diabetes and breast cancer. In each case, we have found genes that are switched on in one twin and switched off in the other twin. This often determines whether or not they are likely to get a disease."
Epigenetic changes are not just simple environmental changes, however. They influence a person's genes and can have an effect that can last for two or three generations in extreme cases. For example, studies of the children and grandchildren of pregnant women who endured starvation in the second world war and in China in the 50s have revealed they tended to be smaller and more prone to diabetes and psychosis. These trends are put down to epigenetic changes.
"Essentially, they are a way to make short-term changes to a generation," says Spector. "A famine strikes but you cannot instantly alter your genes. But epigenetic changes allow you to produce children who are fatter or skinnier or whatever is best suited to the new circumstances. These changes will last for at least two or three generations, by which time you would hope the change in the environment will have passed. It may not, of course."
If nothing else, the idea of epigenetic changes explaining the variability in twin behaviour and illness strikes a chord with Christine. "The idea that I am different from my identical twin sister being due to life events makes sense. Barbara got married first. Many twins will tell you that when that happens the other twin is left grieving. That is how it felt to me. And later I suffered from leukaemia and I have also been divorced. That would leave a mark on anyone. Luck plays its part."
.................
just playing devil's advocate here............. We don't know what we don't know
Here is an article I kept in archives from the Times, I do not know what year it was from
As the New York Times put it, "...the difference in I.Q. points between the groups is quite significant. It means that
the top sixth of blacks score only as well on I.Q. tests as do the top half of whites."
IQ distribution by race/ethnicity:
• Ashkenazi Jews = 115
• East Asians = 106
• Whites = 100
• South East Asians = 87
• Non-White Hispanics = 86
• American Blacks = 85 (average 25% White admixture)
• Middle East and North Africans = 84
• Sub-Saharan Blacks = 67 (Only 2% of Whites score this low)
• Australian Aborigines = 62
Ok dude, i get you want to play devil's advocate but again you are just posting irrelevant links and texts about expression of disease. The next time you want to post something like this kindly summarize what your point is and/or the relevant info. I just read all that about epigenetics producing variation in disease patterns and it still has nothing to do with the discussion. My reference earlier in this thread to separated identical twins was in regards to scholastic and economic performance. For some reason you can't divorce yourself from unrelated studies of traits and disease.how can two people who have identical genes become so different?
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/jun/02/twins-identical-genes-different-health-study
barbara Oliver has had an intriguing relationship with her identical twin sister, Christine, over the decades. Throughout their childhoods, they were effectively treated as two versions of the one person: they were dressed in exactly the same manner and were given the same hairstyles. "Our parents did everything to stress how similar we were," Barbara recalls.
But when Barbara and Christine reached adolescence in the 60s, the pattern changed. The girls could choose their own clothes and adopted very different fashions. "I wore short skirts. Christine had longer dresses and jackets," says Barbara. At the same time, differences in their personalities became more apparent. "Christine is more conscientious about what she does. I am more confident. That became increasingly obvious as the years went by," says Barbara.
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</aside>Christine agrees. "I am more self-conscious and I suffer from serious depression. There is no sign of that in Barbara. We may be identical twins but we are very different in many ways."
Such a divergence might seem odd. After all, as identical twins, the pair have exactly the same genes. They are clones of each other. They also had an upbringing that accentuated their similarities. Nature and nurture would appear to have dealt them identical hands. Yet Barbara and Christine have ended up as dissimilar individuals.
Nor are they unusual, says Professor Tim Spector, head of twin research at King's College, London. Barbara and Christine, who enlisted with the college's twin studies unit several years ago, are like many identical twins. In some ways, they are very, very alike, in looks, for example. But in other ways, they are noticeably dissimilar – and that is far harder to explain. "We see it in so many different ways," says Spector. "For example, our research has shown that twins rarely die of the same disease. Yet they share many other features, such as height. It is not a straightforward business."
It sounds baffling. After all, identical twins have the same genes, share the same womb and usually experience the same childhoods. "Most of the twins recruited to our study went to the same school and lived together, eating the same food for the first 18 or so years of their lives," says Spector, whose pioneering study celebrates its 21st birthday next month. "But the outcomes of their lives are often very different indeed."Advertisement<iframe id="ClearTag_1605301158994115_YmlvYkViMU9YV25KVFJzPQ_Req" name="ClearTag_1605301158994115_YmlvYkViMU9YV25KVFJzPQ_Req" scrolling="no" width="0px" height="0px" marginheight="0px" marginwidth="0px" allowtransparency="true" style="border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; margin: 0px;"></iframe>
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It is an intriguing discovery and it forms the core of a new awareness of the behaviour of genes and their interactions with the environment, one that may explain the baffling roots of human variation, though Spector, when he started his study, had slightly less ambitious goals. In the 1990s, he was studying the roots of common ailments such as cataracts and arthritis. At the time, doctors dismissed these conditions as the results of wear and tear on patients' bodies as they grew older. These ailments were just something that people had to put up with. "However, I wanted to know why some people got hit quite early and not others," says Spector.
And that is where his study of twins began. By comparing identical and fraternal twins and their sensitivities to illnesses, it is possible to separate the genetic roots of conditions from their environmental influences. So Spector began recruiting them for his research and set up his unit at St Thomas' hospital, London. He did so at a time when the first breakthroughs in modern genetics were taking place. In the late 80s and early 90s, researchers – using the tools of modern molecular biology – were starting to pinpoint single genes that were responsible for deadly but relatively uncommon inherited ailments such as cystic fibrosis, Huntington's disease and muscular dystrophy. The roots of widespread ailments such as heart disease and diabetes, although more complex and possibly involving up to a dozen genes, would soon follow, it was expected.
"Scientists would analyse genes and find a link between a group of them with a disease," says Spector. "Thousands of these gene studies were carried out but most of them were false because the researchers did not or could not replicate their results. This was an era of hype. If you got a negative result, you simply didn't publish it: 90% of publications turned out to be rubbish."
One such study involved Spector's twin research. Work with them suggested that the vitamin D receptor gene was the single genetic cause of osteoporosis. An error in one variant of the gene made people susceptible to the condition, it appeared. The story made the cover of Nature, every scientist's dream, except that in this case, as in many others, the claim proved to be wrong. "It was a false dawn," Spector says. "We were simply mistaken."
Then came the Human Genome Project, in which the entire 3bn units of DNA that make up an individual's set of genes were decoded. That sequencing technology and more rigorous replication has transformed the study of individual variation and the work of the twin studies group. "We have 7,000 individual twins – and therefore 3,500 pairs of siblings – on our books here. Of these, about half have had their entire genome sequenced," added Spector.
Every year, day-long measuring sessions are held for groups of twins and a host of different parameters are studied. Blood samples are taken, bone density is calculated, lung function is assessed, x-rays taken and full body scans carried out, along with series of psychometric tests. "We go to these events about once a year and they are really great fun. I get to spend all that time with my sister," says Christine.
But what was thrown up by these sessions and the research carried out on the twins left geneticists puzzled. Instead of finding a dozen or so genes for common conditions such as obesity, researchers found that hundreds were involved. "In the case of osteoporosis, which we once thought was caused by a single mutant gene, we now believe that there may be 500 genes involved – interacting to trigger the disease in people at different ages," says Spector.
"These are genes that individually only account for 0.1% of susceptibility for a condition. And even then, these genes, in total, only seem to account for a fraction of the variance we see in the prevalence and severity of these conditions in the population. This phenomenon has a name: it is called missing heritability."
It is an effect you can see directly from the studies of identical twins carried out at St Thomas'. "We now began to look not at the similarities between identical twins but the differences. It was a shift in perception really. Our work shows that the heritability of your age at death is only about 25%. Similarly, there is only a 30% chance that if one identical twin gets heart disease the other one will as well, while the figure for rheumatoid arthritis is only about 15%."
It is a baffling observation: individuals with identical genes and often very similar conditions of ubringing but who experience very different life outcomes. What could be the cause? The answer, says Spector, came to him in a Damascene moment four years ago. The causes of these differences were due to changes in the human epigenome, he realised.Advertisement<iframe id="ClearTag_1605301158994115_Um1pQURYdmNzUjJDWlVZPQ_Req" name="ClearTag_1605301158994115_Um1pQURYdmNzUjJDWlVZPQ_Req" scrolling="no" width="0px" height="0px" marginheight="0px" marginwidth="0px" allowtransparency="true" style="border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; margin: 0px;"></iframe>
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"Essentially, epigenetics is the mechanism by which environmental changes alter the behaviour of our genes," he says. "This involves a process known as methylation, which occurs when a chemical known as methyl, which floats around the inside of our cells, attaches itself to our DNA. When it does so, it can inhibit or turn down the activity of a gene and block it from making a particular version of a protein in our bodies." Crucially, all sorts of life events can affect DNA methylation levels in our bodies: diet, illnesses, ageing, chemicals in the environment, smoking, drugs and medicines.
Thus epigenetic changes produce variation in disease patterns. And recent experiments carried out by Spector and his colleagues, in which they have looked at methylation levels in pairs of identical twins, back the theory. "We have studied identical twins who have different tolerances to pain and shown that they have different states of methylation. We have also produced similar results for depression, diabetes and breast cancer. In each case, we have found genes that are switched on in one twin and switched off in the other twin. This often determines whether or not they are likely to get a disease."
Epigenetic changes are not just simple environmental changes, however. They influence a person's genes and can have an effect that can last for two or three generations in extreme cases. For example, studies of the children and grandchildren of pregnant women who endured starvation in the second world war and in China in the 50s have revealed they tended to be smaller and more prone to diabetes and psychosis. These trends are put down to epigenetic changes.
"Essentially, they are a way to make short-term changes to a generation," says Spector. "A famine strikes but you cannot instantly alter your genes. But epigenetic changes allow you to produce children who are fatter or skinnier or whatever is best suited to the new circumstances. These changes will last for at least two or three generations, by which time you would hope the change in the environment will have passed. It may not, of course."
If nothing else, the idea of epigenetic changes explaining the variability in twin behaviour and illness strikes a chord with Christine. "The idea that I am different from my identical twin sister being due to life events makes sense. Barbara got married first. Many twins will tell you that when that happens the other twin is left grieving. That is how it felt to me. And later I suffered from leukaemia and I have also been divorced. That would leave a mark on anyone. Luck plays its part."
.................
just playing devil's advocate here............. We don't know what we don't know
I am not saying everything about a human is genetic or everything is environmental. I am pointing out that statistical and intuitive evidence points to the certain things we are discussing in this thread being more genetically dependent. Once again with the dunking a basketball example, any reasonable trainer/doctor/exercise scientist/etc. can concede that the ability to dunk a basketball is overwhelmingly genetically determined. I am not trying to say dunking a basketball is in any way linked to economic/scholastic success, I am using it as an example that certain abilities considered "successful" by society can be overwhelmingly determined by genetics, so when you recognize all the evidence people shouldn't be so defensive when academic/economic performance is said to be genetically predetermined.
okay, I was assuming you were leaning genetics as the overwhelming factor regarding higher black societal failure rate. I asked for clarification a few times, never got an answer. And it appears from the above, you are not saying this- so my assumption was wrong
and btw, i'm not defensive about anything. I took offense to your twin studies statement. It's use was wrong. Identical twins can grow up as entirely different people, despite same genes; one can be drug addict, the other a CEO. Just as that article I posted that u said was 'irrelevant'-- one sister had tremendous confidence was 'always that way'- her twin suffered from self-esteem issues, leading to 'serious' depression
its not black and white. An IQ test isnt the major barometer for whether one will end up in jail or not, or else Down Syndrome patients would fill our jails- ironically, nearly NONE of them are in jail..
