WAMUQ -- Your Guide to Early Retirement

[kuwlness]

the first of many coming. I think JD knew what was coming for him and figured a good time to walk away..

Go Wamu...

From Mordicai the all-knowing:

"well the stock price went from 23 cents to 11 cents presumably on the fdic threat. The motion the fdic filed today shows the fdic has realized that they cannot do anything with out permission of walrath. Otherwise, the fdic would have simply written a letter to JPM instructing them to turnover the deposit to the fdic with a cc to walrath. Hope the market wises up to the fact that the fdic cannot tell walrath what to do . Walrath tells the fdic what to do. Remember that silly Notice of Divestiture filed by JPM. This motion is sillier. And why would JPM ever turn the money over to the fdic....JPM is going to have claims against the fdic because JPM will have to turn assets back to the holding company under the avoidance powers of the bankruptcy court and JPM is going to say hey we want the purchase price to be adjusted accordingly to give us the benefit of our bargain. I said months ago the fdic and jpm would end up being adversaries and I think that day has come."

 

[snoop]

Wamu lawyers have to up their games to end this soap opera asap.

 

[kuwlness]

Here's a write-up from someone who attented yesterday's DC hearing:


DanBB

"11/04/09 DC Hearing (astock/danbb) (corrected)

THJC - The Honorable Judge Collyer
THJMW - The Honorable Judge Mary Walrath

I've tried to keep my opinions in []'s.

I arrived at the courthouse around 1:40PM. I was behind our attorneys while going through security; it was just them and me.. very quiet day at the courthouse. Attorney's are permitted laptops and blackberry's. I didn't even try bringing my phone.

I entered the court room around 1:50PM to find attorneys on both sides ready to go. I sat on the left side, the WMI side. From 1:50PM-2:10PM the main Quin attorney, Carlinsky, paced near their table seemingly going over arguments in his head. The FDIC and JPM counsel seemed very relaxed and smiled a lot towards each other.

The principal WMI attorney's were Mr. Carlinsky from Quin and Mr. Swarshek(sp?) from Weil. JPM's speaker was a Ms. Friedman. FDIC Receivership's speaker from Piper was Mr. John Clark.

THJC entered around 2:20PM and asked the attorney's to identify themselves. WMI had 5 attorney's at the table (a mix of Quin and Weil) and 5 attorney's on the bench. FDIC/JPM had 6 attorney's at the their table (1 Fed from FDIC for FDIC Corporation, 2 FDIC from Piper for FDIC Receiver, and 3 from JPM) and about another 5 on the bench. There was also an attorney for the WMB Bond Holders on the FDIC side.

As opposed to a THJMW hearing where they methodically step through the agenda, THJC did not worry about the agenda. On multiple occasions THJC stated she had read all the briefs and was familiar with the arguments from both sides. It was apparent from nearly the start that THJC had a pretty good idea as to what questions she wanted answered and what she wanted the attorney's to argue. THJC directed both sides limit re-stating their arguments from their briefings. THJC wanted to hear, from both sides, the recent happenings from the BK court.

[WMI's goal was to stay as many counts/issues as possible. FDIC/JPM wanted all counts to proceed or even removed arguing the counts by WMI were not pleaded correctly according to rule 11; this didn't go very far in the hearing.]

Discussion proceeded on all the counts as the attorney's jumped among the different counts. Discussion ensued on the $1.88B sale of the bank. WMI pointed out the huge disparity between the $1.88B sale price and the liquidation value. THJC asked WMI if it matters if it matters if the FDIC undersold, hypothetically, by $500k or by $20B. WMI stated it matters when comparing it to the size of the assets and whether the FDIC comparatively undersold by a little or by a lot (i.e. small mistake or big mistake). FDIC argued that Congress gave them the right to take action without oversight from any court. THJC gave a very questioning look towards the FDIC and asked if the FDIC can undersell something for $20B and not be answerable for it. FDIC said he would give an indirect answer; he went on to explain that Lehman had fallen 10 days prior to WMB and that in the 2 weeks before WMB being seized it had a run of $16B; WMB had ~ $160B deposits and the FDIC only had $31B at the time, hence the justification for urgent action. THJC stated she was very interested in how Wachovia was handled by the FDIC, with the FDIC ready to sell Wachovia only to have the deal fall through because a buyer bypassed the FDIC with a much higher offer.

THJC then seemed very set on the attorney's arguing one principal thing.. what they thought should be heard in her court and what should be stayed. WMI and JPM all agreed that any stay should have a time limit. WMI argued for all 6 counts to be stayed. FDIC/JPM argued for all 6 to proceed; and JPM specifically argued all 6 proceed -but- if a stay was to happen JPM thought only 4 should stay and stay only short-term.

THJC then set the stage for everyone by stating, "let me give a shot across the bow" and stated that Judge THJMW has already been moving along and had made rulings that made it clear THJMW felt her court had jurisdiction over certain things; particularly "what assets belong to the estate". JPM kept arguing that Congress gave only the DC court jurisdiction over the FDIC. THJC agreed that DC has the jurisdiction over the FDIC but that THJMW has already made rulings regarding the estate assets and that she (THJC) would not go against the BK court asserting jurisdiction over estate assets. THJC stated that if FDIC/JPM wants those items argued in DC then they need to get THJMW's decisions overturned. Otherwise it remains in BK court.

THJC continued to state many times to JPM that she (THJC) will not take jurisdiction away from the BK court where the BK court has decided it has jurisdiction. THJC said she does not want two courts deciding the same issues. THJC stated all claims arising out of receivership would be decided in DC.

The question then arose whether the FDIC Corp. needs to remain a defendant. FDIC Corp. wants out but WMI argued that they want FDIC Corp. in because both the FDIC Corp, and FDIC Receivership sign the P&A. WMI stated they want to ensure someone can pay in the end. THJC questioned the FDIC regarding this point as to who would pay if the FDIC were found to have done wrong. (This got into a discussion about the role of each FDIC entity. FDIC Rec. said they would only pay out what the Receivership held; THJC asked "$1.8B?" FDIC Rec. said yes. [I think THJC will probably keep the FDIC Corp. in the suit; it was my opinion THJC didn't like that answer.])

THJC said she would not rule and take it all under advisement. Court adjourned.

MY PERSONAL OPINION

Like THJMW, THJC is a -very- fair and good judge. These are not traffic court judges and I do believe they want what is both right and just.

It looks clear to me that THJC will probably stay 4 counts and will watch what happens in the BK court. It is also clear to me from THJC's statements that THJC will defer to THJMW on anything that THJMW feels is the BK court's jurisdiction.

I think the $4B is of -huge- importance to the WMI attorney's (I may have overheard something regarding this. ok. I know I did) And appeals are expected with it but WMI just needs the initial ruling as a huge win.

It also seems clear to me that non-WMB assets will be decided in DE, while WMB related receivership issues will be decided in DC. DC will eventually proceed since it has jurisdiction over the FDIC. Questions about the $1.88B fire sale to JPM will be decided in DC. I also don't think the FDIC will ever pay a penny until they have exhausted the court system. However, I think JPM on the other hand would be more willing to negotiate as the chips fall against them. Only JPM can make this entire thing go away.. WMI is looking to pile up the wins and build pressure for JPM to deal. IMHO.

In all, I think this hearing went very much in WMI's favor.

note: JPM attorney stated she will be in the same courthouse for the Insurance Company vs. JPM on Friday. I'm thinking of attending. "

 

[kuwlness]

Quick run-down:

Advanta just entered Chap 11 ... A judge ruled that the $100MM Advanta had was theirs and they can use as they wish, so the FDIC didnt get its dirty hands on it.

This now sets precedence for the judge to rule in favor of WMI aka WAMUQ. When and if that decision happens be prepared for new highs on WAMUQ.

 

[BigDon]

Fucking "a" right !!!

 

[snoop]

It's trading at very unusual low volume in Germany. What is going on?

 

[kuwlness]

It's trading at very unusual low volume in Germany. What is going on?

Those are Euros, not cents : )

 

[kuwlness]

Here's an article on that Advanta topic I was talking abotu yesterday:

10-11-2009 21:58 =DJ Advanta Gets Court OK To Use Cash, Cover Payroll In Chapter 11

WILMINGTON, Del. (Dow Jones)--Advanta Corp. (ADVNB) Tuesday won court permission to continue tapping its cash, funds that aren´t tied up in the company`s endangered banking unit, according to William Rosoff, president of the troubled credit-card marketer.

Sunday, Advanta sought protection in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Del., with nearly $100 million to cover debts of $331 million.

"That $100 million is not at Advanta Bank," Rossof said following the brief debut court hearing in Advanta`s Chapter 11 proceeding.

At the hearing in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Judge Kevin Gross authorized Advanta to use its existing bank accounts, cover payroll and pay other necessary bills as it attempts to work out a Chapter 11 plan to pay creditors.
Before filing for bankruptcy protection, Advanta cut off capital contributions to the Spring House, Pa., company`s bank, Advanta Bank Corp. The bank doesn`t have capital at levels required by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

Earlier this year, the FDIC ordered the Draper, Utah-based bank, a niche operation that issued loans through credit cards to small businesses, to stop taking deposits.

Advanta tried to find a way to keep the bank in business in the face of rising defaults, but none met with FDIC approval.

It is up to Utah banking regulators to find other sources of capital to keep Advanta Bank going. If that isn`t possible, Utah regulators will go to court to seize the bank. In a release, Advanta said the bank likely will end up in the hands of the FDIC.

Court documents say Advanta`s money is in accounts at Republic First Bank (FRBK) and Wachovia Bank, where it cant easily be tied up by the FDIC if and when Advanta Bank is placed into receivership.

That could be a relief to creditors, including institutional investors that bought unsecured notes from Advanta. Creditors of Washington Mutual Inc. (WAMUQ), a bank parent company that lost its banking business to seizure, have been fighting the FDIC and the bank``s new owner, JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM), for more than a year to reclaim some $3.7 billion that was in the parent`s accounts at the banking unit when it was seized.

(Dow Jones Daily Bankruptcy Review covers news about distressed companies and those under bankruptcy protection.)

-By Peg Brickley, Dow Jones Daily Bankruptcy Review; <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = SKYPE /><SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_0 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +13025212266 mode=".modern" skypeid="0" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth="" type=".flex" path="file://C:/Users/kuwlness/AppData/Local/Temp/Low/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%" context="302-521-2266"><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_nop0 class=skype_v3_tb_nop> </SKYPE:SPAN><뤬⣍> <SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/kuwlness/AppData/Local/Temp/Low/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f0 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag> </SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN class=skype_v3_tb_nop> </SKYPE:SPAN> </뤬⣍><뤬⣍><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/kuwlness/AppData/Local/Temp/Low/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_m.modern.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_innerText0 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> 302-521-2266 </SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN class=skype_v3_tb_nop> </SKYPE:SPAN></뤬⣍></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_0 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">302-521-2266</SKYPE:SPAN>; peg.brickley@dowjones.com >

 

[plowboy]

Just wondering what happened in court today. Does anyone know?

 

[kuwlness]

Just wondering what happened in court today. Does anyone know?

Didnt know there was a court date today. Next court date is 11/28 Omnibus. If there was a court date today, it's news to me, lol. Unless it was the TX court hearing, I havent been paying attention to those much.

I dont really follow the WaMu board much either. Dont need to, I know WAMUQ will be worth much more in the near-term future.

 

[MTL_Expos2003]

Didnt know there was a court date today. Next court date is 11/28 Omnibus. If there was a court date today, it's news to me, lol. Unless it was the TX court hearing, I havent been paying attention to those much.

I dont really follow the WaMu board much either. Dont need to, I know WAMUQ will be worth much more in the near-term future.

Ok let's say I'm a noob to the stocks market, but this seems interesting. How much do you need to invest to get a good return long-term, and are the WAMUQ shares still affordable?

 

[kuwlness]

Ok let's say I'm a noob to the stocks market, but this seems interesting. How much do you need to invest to get a good return long-term, and are the WAMUQ shares still affordable?

Plz read the entire thread. If you're a n00b, I want to make sure you know what you're buying. This is an ultra speculative play with very high risk/reward. PPS for WAMUQ ranges from $2 - 30+ ... I believe we'll get somewhere around $10/share.

This could take days, weeks, months, years longer though. However, you're buying now at around the original price I recommended (.10) before the big run-up to .40+ ... I'd say you're getting in at a safe price.

Buy some shares, sit back and enjoy the circus show the court, JPM, and the FDIC will be putting on for us in coming days/weeks.

@)

 

[MTL_Expos2003]

Interesting... Forgive my ignorance, but what are the procedures in order to buy shares? Can we buy them online? And let's say I buy the shares at .10 each, how many should I buy? Thanks for the info

 

[cashgrinder]

you can buy shares at any online brokerage. Ameritrade.com, scotttrade.com, etrade.com etc.

Buy what you are comfortable with. I know people who hold 10k shares and i know people who have over 300k shares. This is a high speculative stock. you could make millions or your shares could get delisted and the amount you invest turn to 0 and be worthless.

With investing you should be diversified and have investments in a wide variety of categories to limit risk. I would do some research on your own before listening to anyone on a message board.

 

[UltF]

you can buy shares at any online brokerage. Ameritrade.com, scotttrade.com, etrade.com etc.

Buy what you are comfortable with. I know people who hold 10k shares and i know people who have over 300k shares. This is a high speculative stock. you could make millions or your shares could get delisted and the amount you invest turn to 0 and be worthless.

With investing you should be diversified and have investments in a wide variety of categories to limit risk. I would do some research on your own before listening to anyone on a message board.

And there are probably hundreds of people would only bought a couple thousand shares for $300 or so to see if it turns into twenty grand.
Many people think of it as a lotto ticket lol.
Big money! Big money! No whammy! No whammyyyyyy STOP!!
@)

Much better to buy some WAMKQ before buying any WAMUQ IMO

 

[kuwlness]

And there are probably hundreds of people would only bought a couple thousand shares for $300 or so to see if it turns into twenty grand.
Many people think of it as a lotto ticket lol.
Big money! Big money! No whammy! No whammyyyyyy STOP!!
@)

Much better to buy some WAMKQ before buying any WAMUQ IMO

Good observation UltF. As I stated a few posts back, I have switched my position largely to WAMKQs. I am 2/3s KQs and 1/3 UQs. I find the percentage return on the KQs to be much more interesting to me as it has a face value of $25 (16x what you invest at this point). While I keep the UQs as a wild card as they could see any crazy amount. I like the UQs also because theyre very liquid and they are likely to have more wild swings of 100% gains followed by 50% losses, lol. Easy to trade IMO.

I wish everyone the best of luck. I just dont post here much because I believe I've stated everything of importance/relevance and at this point it's just a wait-and-see scenario ... And enjoy the show

@)

 

[UltF]

Good observation UltF. As I stated a few posts back, I have switched my position largely to WAMKQs. I am 2/3s KQs and 1/3 UQs. I find the percentage return on the KQs to be much more interesting to me as it has a face value of $25 (16x what you invest at this point). While I keep the UQs as a wild card as they could see any crazy amount. I like the UQs also because theyre very liquid and they are likely to have more wild swings of 100% gains followed by 50% losses, lol. Easy to trade IMO.

I wish everyone the best of luck. I just dont post here much because I believe I've stated everything of importance/relevance and at this point it's just a wait-and-see scenario ... And enjoy the show

@)

.60 / 25 = 2.4%
That makes it 40X right? =)

 

[festeringZit]

When a guy that admits that he's a noob at stock investing,
starts trading in penny stocks, I'd call that gambling, not
investing - but that's just my 2 cents.

I've been trading stocks and bonds for 20 years, and the money
I put towards penny stocks recently I'm looking at as pretty
much a pure gamble.

 

[kuwlness]

.60 / 25 = 2.4%
That makes it 40X right? =)

Oops, i was using the wrong PPS. Yes, $25/.60 = 38.46x whatever you invest. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[MTL_Expos2003]

Good observation UltF. As I stated a few posts back, I have switched my position largely to WAMKQs. I am 2/3s KQs and 1/3 UQs. I find the percentage return on the KQs to be much more interesting to me as it has a face value of $25 (16x what you invest at this point). While I keep the UQs as a wild card as they could see any crazy amount. I like the UQs also because theyre very liquid and they are likely to have more wild swings of 100% gains followed by 50% losses, lol. Easy to trade IMO.

I wish everyone the best of luck. I just dont post here much because I believe I've stated everything of importance/relevance and at this point it's just a wait-and-see scenario ... And enjoy the show

@)

By the way, what's the difference between WAMKQ & WAMUQ... Has any of you guys made some serious money with this stocks market?