The NE Patriots team is "mediocre at best"?

[X-Files]

You know there is a big gap between "Being as good as you were when you won the superbowl last year" and "mediocre", right?

It depends on how you define the statement that "a team is mediocre". Mediocre in what way? In talent? In record? In stats? In wins against quality healthy opposition (0-1?)?

Yeah bro, that last post just convinced me that you're right. They're around between the 15-18th best team in the NFL.

I don't recall anyone posting in this thread saying NE is mediocre. Last i checked earlier today, no one in the poll did.

To have a meaningful discussion about the topic the concept would have to be properly defined. Does beating up on the bottom 3rd of teams in the league make a team better than mediocre?

That's why they're giving almost a TD against Dallas next week.

How mediocre is Dallas? They beat the Gi-ants twice & the Deadskins. Whoopee. And lost to the Jets who lost to the Dolphucks. The same trash that the Patriots have been padding their record with.

The line was 7 last week, 6.5 yesterday, 5.5's & 6's across the board today. :think2:

Frankly, when i first saw the 7 i thought it was a bit too low. I might have to do some research & rethink that now ;

 

[PatsFan1283]

Umm....You started a poll asking if a team is mediocre that is consensus top 3 in any power ranking metric. As well as even money to win their conference in the betting markets.

Start a real fucking thread about football if you want to have a real discussion about the intrinsic value of the team and their future prospects.

I cant reply to your hogwash and gibberish ESPN.

 

[X-Files]

PItt with Ben
Buffalo
Philadelphia

That would be 3-1 at least

Pittsburg's (5-5) record was 0-0 vs NE, so not a winning team or necessarily good (top third of the NFL) even with Ben.

Buffalo had a winning record when facing NE, but whether or not they are "good" is still in question. Who have they beaten...Dolphins (twice), Deadskins, Jets, Giants & Titties. That recalls NE's list of wins. Nothing impressive there. Besides NE, Buffalo also lost to Philly (5-5) & the 4-6 Browns.

Philly had a winning record, but with all those injuries (pregame & in-game) how good were they on that day? NE was down 10-0 before those in-game injuries.

 

[X-Files]

Umm....You started a poll asking if a team is mediocre that is consensus top 3 in any power ranking metric.

To understand in what regard the question about mediocrity is meant requires reading & understanding the quote in the OP in context. I doubt very many people did that.

As for NE being "top 3 in any power ranking metric" what is that based on? Beating up on the bottom feeders of the NFL, the Dolphins. Deadskins, Giants & Jets?

Their biggest test of the year was against the Ravens & they got a big fat F. They would have also lost that game if it were played in Foxborough. Many considered NE fortunate to get a W at Buffalo. Also the Philly game could very easily have been another loss. And now they are a mere 5.5-6 point favorite at home against who? The Ravens, Packers, 49ers, Saints, Vikings or Chiefs? No, the Cowboys, who like the Pats, have been feasting on cellar dwellers.

As well as even money to win their conference in the betting markets.

That price is largely due to huge amounts of dollars wagered when NE had Antonio Brown & Gostkowski. At this point in time many people would put the Ravens & other teams ahead of NE.

 

[Doug]

Brady is like first ballot hall of fame, and I don't even like football, retire his number and build a statue

 

[PatsFan1283]

That price is largely due to huge amounts of dollars wagered when NE had Antonio Brown & Gostkowski. At this point in time many people would put the Ravens & other teams ahead of NE.

No, that isn't how futures markets work at all. They strive for efficiency but given the material I've seen ITT and in other threads over the years, I would be drawing stone dead to explain such a simple concept to you.

Yeah man, the current lines for futures are still influenced by Antonio Brown being on the Pats.

 

[PatsFan1283]

To understand in what regard the question about mediocrity is meant requires reading & understanding the quote in the OP in context. I doubt very many people did that.

As for NE being "top 3 in any power ranking metric" what is that based on? Beating up on the bottom feeders of the NFL, the Dolphins. Deadskins, Giants & Jets?

Their biggest test of the year was against the Ravens & they got a big fat F. They would have also lost that game if it were played in Foxborough. Many considered NE fortunate to get a W at Buffalo. Also the Philly game could very easily have been another loss. And now they are a mere 5.5-6 point favorite at home against who? The Ravens, Packers, 49ers, Saints, Vikings or Chiefs? No, the Cowboys, who like the Pats, have been feasting on cellar dwellers.

If you think the Pats aren't close to a top 3, 4, 5 team and that the books are wrong in pricing them that way, then just monetize that shit.

What's so hard to understand about this concept?

PFF, DVOA, FPI, any sports book pricing model....If you think these are all wrong and NE is a paper tiger, then handle it.

 

[Willie99]

Did you know? People have been starting threads like this every year. A few guys have been doing it themselves every year. They're called overrated every year.

Remember that can't win since they were caught cheating? Never mind their incredible won / loss record and two last minute defeats in the SB, brilliant football analysts told us they need to spy, and those guys don't even know the facts about spygate.

They lose a game, they're done. Kinda like the Ravens game this year. Remember when the Chiefs kicked their ass on Monday night? It was on to Cincinnati? The Bengals came into Foxboro a favorite, the Patriots annihilated them and went on to win the SB.

They start 2-2 in September? It's over

The oldest thread like this was started in 2005, it was bumped this football season.

Last year Desert Devil predicted their demise, he laughed about it afterwards, good guy. I joked that instead of starting a new thread next year about their demise, people should just bump this thread. Well that advice was obviously not taken.

So what are Patriots' fans supposed to think about this? That a 9-1 team with the best record in football and 7-3 ATS is really overrated?

This time it's real, this is it, "it's the big one Elizabeth" !!!!!!!!!

Their run will end, but we already know it's not ending this year. It's too late for that

 

[PatsFan1283]

Nothing wrong with thinking a team is overrated obviously. During the course of the season several teams values ebb and flow, good teams regress to the average all the time in the NFL. UnusualSuspects has the right idea, if you think a team is overrated relative to the lines then just say that and state why.

But starting a thread with an ESPNesque headline, getting 0 votes, using all this transitive property BS about who played who w/o really speaking to the abilities/effectiveness of the team and being semantical/evasive the entire thread is just lame.

Also, his take that the futures for the AFC are priced the way they are because money came in when Antonio Brown was on the team was legitimately 1 of the dumber things I've ever read on this forum. But whatever, I'm starting to sound too harsh.

But it is what it is as BB would say

 

[PatsFanatic]

Big Fat F, cause they lost to a good team on the road lol......Okay dokey

Bias much?? :nosepicki

 

[JackStraw77]

Right now it would be hard to give them a chance against the Ravens even at Foxboro. Ravens own the tiebreaker. Pats must stop a Cowboys who can run the ball down their throat this Sunday.

 

[Willie99]

The Ravens are playing great, they can go all the way. When I say their run is obviously NOT over, I mean they're in the mix and they're contenders.

Nobody can win the SB every year, only the Patriots have contended every year

For 19 years and counting

I happen to think it's more about Belichick than Brady, and their defense is a testimony to that

 

[PatsFan1283]

It would be hard to give the Patriots a chance vs the Ravens? Wtf? They play for 3 hours and it is football. In the other thread people say Lamar Jackson isn't making a superbowl because he's a fake flash in the pan.

The hyperbole is out of control

 

[Willie99]

Every year the Patriots play their best in January. Belichick never shows his hand. I know they're working on things for the post season

Can they be beat? Of course they can

Are they mediocre? Of course NOT

 

[CHOPTALK]

what matters is that they are overrated by the bookmakers. they have major issues on offense at left guard, tight end, fullback, running back, qb mobility and major issue with the place kicking. defense has carried them but should digress with 4 tough games coming up consecutively. they will do handstands if they can go 2-2 during this stretch. that will put them at 10-3 with 3 cupcakes (bengals, jets, bills) to close out the season. then they will have to knock off the chiefs and ravens in the playoffs. not likely.

overated by the sport books?
Yet they 7-3 vs the spread ?
lol

 

[CHOPTALK]

If the saints make the Super Bowl I would much rather play Baltimore or KC
Just saying

 

[skins85]

this conversation continues to happen year after year. the playoffs are always tough but if the sky is falling for a 9-1 team whose only loss came on the road against the MVP then they are fine. baltimore is hot right now but it still has to continue for 2 more months. i still think the patriots are the best in the AFC.

 

[CHOPTALK]

If the saints make the Super Bowl I would much rather play Baltimore or KC
Just saying

maybe I should not have said this .

I actually want to play NE because I want to beat the best .

But I think the saints odds of winning are better if they play Baltimore or KC

 

[X-Files]

T
That price is largely due to huge amounts of dollars wagered when NE had Antonio Brown & Gostkowski. At this point in time many people would put the Ravens & other teams ahead of NE.

No, that isn't how futures markets work at all.

Wrong. That's exactly what happened when news of Antonio Brown coming to the Pats was released. The line hasn't moved much since that HUGE move at that time & for a brief period afterwards. I watch line movements & i know what happened.

Yeah man, the current lines for futures are still influenced by Antonio Brown being on the Pats.

What utter nonsense is that statement?

 

[CHOPTALK]

Wrong. That's exactly what happened when news of Antonio Brown coming to the Pats was released. The line hasn't moved much since that HUGE move at that time & for a brief period afterwards. I watch line movements & i know what happened.






What utter nonsense is that statement?

wtf
you honestly think the line on the pats has anything to do with a player they had in week 3?

omg