Should the Joe Paterno Statue Come Down in Happy Valley?

[Enfuego]

The evidence comes from e-mails between Curley, Spanier and Schulz:

"After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday - I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps."

That refers to a plan in 2001 to bring in authorities after Sandusky was caught raping a kid in shower. That incident came years after Paterno was involved in Sandusky's first child-molestation investigation in 1998.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...o-penn-state-covered-up-sex-abuse-all/?page=2

http://deadspin.com/5925408/freeh-report-joe-paterno-knew-in-1998

Piecing everything together, here's what is known with no longer any doubt:

1. Paterno knew since 1998 that Sandusky was suspected to have raped children.
2. Paterno did nothing to limit Sandusky's access to Penn State facilities OR to stop him from bringing children there.
3. After being informed in 2001 of Sandusky having been caught raping a kid in the Penn State showers, Paterno asked the PSU brass not to bring in authorities.
4. Paterno still did little to nothing to limit Sandusky's access or to stop him from bringing children there.

Here's what it says right at the top of page 5 of Freeh's statement on the report:

The evidence shows that these four men also knew about a 1998 criminal investigation of Sandusky relating to suspected sexual misconduct with a young boy in a Penn State football locker room shower. Again, they showed no concern about that victim. The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno was made aware of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky, followed it closely, but failed to take any action, even though Sandusky had been a key member of his coaching staff for almost 30 years, and had an office just steps away from Mr. Paterno’s. At the very least, Mr. Paterno could have alerted the entire football staff, in order to prevent Sandusky from bringing another child into the Lasch Building. Messrs. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley also failed to alert the Board of Trustees about the 1998 investigation or take any further action against Mr. Sandusky. None of them even spoke to Sandusky about his conduct. In short, nothing was done and Sandusky was allowed to continue with impunity.

Based on the evidence, the only known, intervening factor between the decision made on February 25, 2001 by Messrs. Spanier, Curley and Schulz to report the incident to the Department of Public Welfare, and then agreeing not to do so on February 27th, was Mr. Paterno’s February 26th conversation with Mr. Curley.​

This is where we'll disagree. It's ok to disagree but just disagree.

The evidence you show in emails between Curley, Spanier and Shulz shows nothing in the least bit that Paterno tried to keep authorities from investigating. If nothing else, it's complete hearsay. Are there emails from Joe Paterno saying this? I've said all along he's guilty of not doing all he could do to prevent this from happening. He's guilty of doing nothing.

1) Paterno did know since 1998. We know this because the mother of the victim contacted the campus police and we know that. That is indisputable.
2) You are 100% correct. He did nothing to limit Sandusky's access and that is disgusting.
3) Please show me the page number and quote from the report that shows Paterno asked PSU brass not to alert authorities.
4) You are correct. He did nothing just like you said in point 2.

Again, they did know about the 1998 incident and that incident was reported and investigated with the district attorney deciding not to file charges based on lack of evidence in the case.

Please show me where Paterno asked PSU authorities not to alert authorities. If he did, I'm completely wrong. I'd like to read it though. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

 

[YourAllAmerican]

3) Please show me the page number and quote from the report that shows Paterno asked PSU brass not to alert authorities.

Freeh makes references to the e-mail on page 5 of his statement regarding the report. The actual text of that e-mail is on page 227 of the report. (Exhibits on pages 219-225 help with the context of that e-mail.)

Both are available in full download here:
http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/

 

[CHOPTALK]

This is where we'll disagree. It's ok to disagree but just disagree.

The evidence you show in emails between Curley, Spanier and Shulz shows nothing in the least bit that Paterno tried to keep authorities from investigating. If nothing else, it's complete hearsay. Are there emails from Joe Paterno saying this? I've said all along he's guilty of not doing all he could do to prevent this from happening. He's guilty of doing nothing.

1) Paterno did know since 1998. We know this because the mother of the victim contacted the campus police and we know that. That is indisputable.
2) You are 100% correct. He did nothing to limit Sandusky's access and that is disgusting.
3) Please show me the page number and quote from the report that shows Paterno asked PSU brass not to alert authorities.
4) You are correct. He did nothing just like you said in point 2.

Again, they did know about the 1998 incident and that incident was reported and investigated with the district attorney deciding not to file charges based on lack of evidence in the case.

Please show me where Paterno asked PSU authorities not to alert authorities. If he did, I'm completely wrong. I'd like to read it though. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

So what are we arguing about then?

You admit yourself that he did not to do anything to prevent access to PSU (which you say is disgusting) which he had 100% ability to do so if he wanted to.
You admit yourself admit that he did nothing which is wrong.

So what are we arguing about then?

You just admit all this stuff that he did and did not do but yet you say he should still be held in high esteem with his statue to remain on campus.
I dont understand your logic.

What what JoePa had to have done in your estimation to deserve the statue coming down? Would he have had to join Sandusky in a threesome gangbang?

I just dont understand anymore.

I can almost buy your stance at the beginning of the thread before all this new info came out.
Your original stand was it was not proven that JoePa did anything to help Sandusky do his thing.

Now its completely proven that he knew, and completely proven that he not only did not stop him, he helped him victimize the kids.

I really am at a loss for words trying to understand your stance.

Basically what I think you are saying is that yes you realize he knew about it, and yes he helped Sandusky prey on these children, and yes its disgusting that he did not do nothing.

But so what JoePa is ok, lets leave the statue up. He was a good guy anyway because he told his boss about it.

 

[mrganja]

This is where we'll disagree. It's ok to disagree but just disagree.

The evidence you show in emails between Curley, Spanier and Shulz shows nothing in the least bit that Paterno tried to keep authorities from investigating. If nothing else, it's complete hearsay. Are there emails from Joe Paterno saying this? I've said all along he's guilty of not doing all he could do to prevent this from happening. He's guilty of doing nothing.

1) Paterno did know since 1998. We know this because the mother of the victim contacted the campus police and we know that. That is indisputable.
2) You are 100% correct. He did nothing to limit Sandusky's access and that is disgusting.
3) Please show me the page number and quote from the report that shows Paterno asked PSU brass not to alert authorities.
4) You are correct. He did nothing just like you said in point 2.

Again, they did know about the 1998 incident and that incident was reported and investigated with the district attorney deciding not to file charges based on lack of evidence in the case.

Please show me where Paterno asked PSU authorities not to alert authorities. If he did, I'm completely wrong. I'd like to read it though. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

enfuego you are in denial. any reasonable person(judge,jury,etc) would say the exact same thing all american is. the guy said after he talked to the coach he changed his mind. what else do you need to know. lol.

 

[Enfuego]

Freeh makes references to the e-mail on page 5 of his statement regarding the report. The actual text of that e-mail is on page 227 of the report. (Exhibits on pages 219-225 help with the context of that e-mail.)

Both are available in full download here:
http://thefreehreportonpsu.com/

The email you're refering to is from Schulz to Spanier and Curley. Let's be clear that Paterno is not addressed on this email.

And after reading the entire email, anything about Paterno is pure hearsay. Here is the line about Joe Pa in the email from Tim Curley...

"After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday--I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps." That is it.

If that line in that email is evidence that Joe Paterno asked PSU brass to not take allegations of sexual abuse to the proper authorities, that case would be thrown out 5 minutes after filing took place.

 

[Enfuego]

So what are we arguing about then?

You admit yourself that he did not to do anything to prevent access to PSU (which you say is disgusting) which he had 100% ability to do so if he wanted to.
You admit yourself admit that he did nothing which is wrong.

So what are we arguing about then?

You just admit all this stuff that he did and did not do but yet you say he should still be held in high esteem with his statue to remain on campus.
I dont understand your logic.

What what JoePa had to have done in your estimation to deserve the statue coming down? Would he have had to join Sandusky in a threesome gangbang?

I just dont understand anymore.

I can almost buy your stance at the beginning of the thread before all this new info came out.
Your original stand was it was not proven that JoePa did anything to help Sandusky do his thing.

Now its completely proven that he knew, and completely proven that he not only did not stop him, he helped him victimize the kids.

I really am at a loss for words trying to understand your stance.

Basically what I think you are saying is that yes you realize he knew about it, and yes he helped Sandusky prey on these children, and yes its disgusting that he did not do nothing.

But so what JoePa is ok, lets leave the statue up. He was a good guy anyway because he told his boss about it.

Chop, real simple. I'm saying he was wrong and it's disgusting and all of that. I'm also saying he did not cover anything up. He went to his boss and reported the incident. Yes, he continued to let it happen and that's a damn shame and disgusting but I don't see anything that says he covered anything up. That's it.

 

[CHOPTALK]

Hey dude.
When you are a person in charge like JoePa.
You dont need to tell someone to call the cops dammit.

You pick up the phone your damm self and call the cops, and why your are at call the cops on your boss to who told you to keep it quiet.

I cant even believe we are still talking about this.

 

[Enfuego]

enfuego you are in denial. any reasonable person(judge,jury,etc) would say the exact same thing all american is. the guy said after he talked to the coach he changed his mind. what else do you need to know. lol.

Not denying anything at all. I just wish one of you guys would show me one piece of evidence that shows clearly that Joe Paterno covered up the abuse of children by Jerry Sandusky. Feel free to read the Freeh report and pull out any evidence you may have.

In the end, people are being charged in court and Joe Paterno would not have been charged. Again, he was guilty of being an idiot but if he covered something up, he'd have been charged with the rest of them.

 

[CHOPTALK]

Chop, real simple. I'm saying he was wrong and it's disgusting and all of that. I'm also saying he did not cover anything up. He went to his boss and reported the incident. Yes, he continued to let it happen and that's a damn shame and disgusting but I don't see anything that says he covered anything up. That's it.

FUCK YOUR BOSS!
If you boss dont call the cops. YOU call the cops.
Thats called covering up.

And then JoePa lets this evil man have unlimited access to the facility to do unlimited hurt to these kids.
But yet you say just because he told his boss he is not covering anything up?

Come on man. Please read what you are writing.

 

[Enfuego]

Hey dude.
When you are a person in charge like JoePa.
You dont need to tell someone to call the cops dammit.

You pick up the phone your damm self and call the cops, and why your are at call the cops on your boss to who told you to keep it quiet.

I cant even believe we are still talking about this.

Agree with you 100% Chop. That still doesn't mean he covered it up. An idiot yes but a criminal? No.

 

[CHOPTALK]

Not denying anything at all. I just wish one of you guys would show me one piece of evidence that shows clearly that Joe Paterno covered up the abuse of children by Jerry Sandusky. Feel free to read the Freeh report and pull out any evidence you may have.

In the end, people are being charged in court and Joe Paterno would not have been charged. Again, he was guilty of being an idiot but if he covered something up, he'd have been charged with the rest of them.

I will give you one piece of evidence that shows that Joe Peterno covered up the abuse.
There is no damm phone record of Joe picking up a telephone and calling the cops.
Theres your damm evidence.

 

[CHOPTALK]

Agree with you 100% Chop. That still doesn't mean he covered it up. An idiot yes but a criminal? No.

Why are you so wrapped up in this "but he still did not cover it up so he is ok" talk.

#1 I disagree that he he did not cover it up.

But lets just pretend that you are right and he did not cover it up.

That would be like saying yes OJ killed 2 people one day, but at least he did not rape them before he murdered them so that makes him ok.

 

[Salsantorre]

Enfuego, do you believe in air? You can't see it, therefore it must not be there.

 

[Enfuego]

Why are you so wrapped up in this "but he still did not cover it up so he is ok" talk.

#1 I disagree that he he did not cover it up.

But lets just pretend that you are right and he did not cover it up.

That would be like saying yes OJ killed 2 people one day, but at least he did not rape them before he murdered them so that makes him ok.

Chop, you know better than this. You put this line in quotes "but he still did not cover it up so he is ok" like I really said that? Really Chop? I never said that.

 

[Enfuego]

I will give you one piece of evidence that shows that Joe Peterno covered up the abuse.
There is no damm phone record of Joe picking up a telephone and calling the cops.
Theres your damm evidence.

That is incorrect. He reported it which shows he was not attempting to cover it up. It was not the correct course of action to take but that is not a cover up. If it were me, I would've called my boss and reported it and told him to either call the police or I would call the police. One or the other.

 

[Enfuego]

Enfuego, do you believe in air? You can't see it, therefore it must not be there.

Evidence has to be proven not guessed.

 

[CHOPTALK]

That is incorrect. He reported it which shows he was not attempting to cover it up. It was not the correct course of action to take but that is not a cover up. If it were me, I would've called my boss and reported it and told him to either call the police or I would call the police. One or the other.

He never called the cops.
Show me proof he called the cops.
I know he called his boss.
But that call was probably nothing more then a strategy meeting between him and his bosses to figure out the best way to cover it up which is exactly what they did.

Come on man.

I honestly have no clue what we are talking about man.

So you just admitted that Joe fucked up bad. Thats the whole point of this thread.

So what are we talking about then?

So now that we have that out of the way I ask the question.

Should Joe Pa have his statue removed from campus?

 

[Enfuego]

He never called the cops.
Show me proof he called the cops.
I know he called his boss.
But that call was probably nothing more then a strategy meeting between him and his bosses to figure out the best way to cover it up which is exactly what they did.

Come on man.

I honestly have no clue what we are talking about man.

So you just admitted that Joe fucked up bad. Thats the whole point of this thread.

So what are we talking about then?

So now that we have that out of the way I ask the question.

Should Joe Pa have his statue removed from campus?

Chop, this is just dumb and we'll never agree. I don't think it should be removed. I say he didn't cover it up you say he did. Conversation over I guess.

Not calling the cops was stupid but he did report it. He'd have been charged with a crime if the D.A. thought he covered it up. They were not charging Joe Paterno. I guess your definition of a cover up and mine are different.

No big deal and enjoy your Saturday!

 

[Salsantorre]

Okay, maybe you win your point in a very, very literal sense. Can you argue that he was not complicit in that after all that time he let the asshole run rampant on campus? He was complicit. No doubt. And almost as guilty ass Sandusky. Paterno was a low life scumbag. Any good he did means nothing after this.

 

[Enfuego]

Okay, maybe you win your point in a very, very literal sense. Can you argue that he was not complicit in that after all that time he let the asshole run rampant on campus? He was complicit. No doubt. And almost as guilty ass Sandusky. Paterno was a low life scumbag. Any good he did means nothing after this.

Complicit as the other three as I've said all along in this thread. His non actions were a disgrace.