Should the Joe Paterno Statue Come Down in Happy Valley?

[azbob]

you can get Penn State's attention if you go after their sponsors...ask Nike to end sponsorship

http://www.change.org/petitions/nik...ium=email&utm_campaign=petition_created_email

 

[kaiz]

Joe Pa didn't rape those boys...the old man just made some bad decisions that will haunt his family for years to come...

Penn State is and will forever be a great University of academic excellence and its students will go on and lead productive lives....

Joe's judgement in error(and yes it was a grave one) will overshadow all the good he has ever done at Happy Valley...I voted to keep the statue around, but I can see why others voted the other way....

I hope the judicial system will take care of the scumbag who started all this mess and I hope the government goes after the Catholic Church with the fever that it did with Penn State...but I wouldn't hold my breath...

Sandusky should rot in hell....

VD- not sure where the government has gone after Penn St. in this case. I would say if they did earlier- the D.A. back in 98- this would not be an issue today. I don't understand why you keep bringing in the Catholic Church into this argument-apples and oranges- hopefully we can have this discussion over beers in a month or two- Just need to get off my ass and make the trip from BKK.

 

[PatsFanatic]

I agree 100% VIEJO and appreciate your comments. I would never in 100 years defend Sandusky or support Paterno's non actions during this entire ordeal. You're right, some have missed the point.

No...you have defended Penn St./local authorities for not doing anything. That you have done.

 

[Enfuego]

No...you have defended Penn St./local authorities for not doing anything. That you have done.

Never done that once but feel free to show me if you'd like.

I've only defended Joe Paterno being accused of covering this up. That's it. Nothing more.

I've said over and over throughout 16 pages, the leadership displayed poor judgement, bad decision making, irresponsibility, no leadership and on and on but not once have I have defended what they did.

 

[CHOPTALK]

So ENFUEGO, do you still think that if JOEPA was still alive he would not be charged with a crime?

But everyone else besides JOEPA in the higher ups of PSU has been charged.

 

[Enfuego]

So ENFUEGO, do you still think that if JOEPA was still alive he would not be charged with a crime?

But everyone else besides JOEPA in the higher ups of PSU has been charged.

Would the DA be able to prove Jo Pa lied or covered up Sandusky's crimes in any way shape or form?

Have you ever shown me either from the Freh report or subsequent interviews or court documents that he lied or covered anything up? Didn't think so.

Negligent in not following up on his initial report YES, failure to report a crime and act NO.

 

[Enfuego]

HARRISBURG, Pa. – Gov. Tom Corbett said Tuesday he plans to sue the NCAA in federal court over sanctions imposed against Penn State in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse scandal.

The Republican governor scheduled a news conference for Wednesday on Penn State's campus in State College to announce the filing in U.S. District Court in Harrisburg.

The sanctions, agreed to by the university in July, included a $60 million fine that would be used nationally to finance child abuse prevention grants. State and federal lawmakers have raised objections to the money being spent outside Pennsylvania.

A message seeking comment on the expected lawsuit was left with the NCAA on Tuesday.

Last month, a Pennsylvania congressman said he was unhappy with how the NCAA responded to a request from the state's U.S. House delegation that the whole

$60 million in Penn State fines be distributed to causes within the state.

NCAA president Mark Emmert had said in a Dec. 12 letter that a task force had been charged with allocating at least 25 percent of the fine money to programs in Pennsylvania.

Republican Rep. Charlie Dent said days later in a statement that Emmert's response was "unacceptable and unsatisfactory."

The NCAA said then that it stood by what Emmert said.

The fine was just part of college sports' governing body's sanctions on Penn State for its handling of the abuse scandal involving Sandusky, a former assistant under head football coach Joe Paterno. The landmark sanctions also included a four-year ban from postseason play and significant scholarship cuts for the marquee football program, which avoided being suspended, the so-called death penalty.

Sandusky, a former defensive coordinator, was convicted in June on charges he sexually abused 10 boys, some on campus. The 68-year-old was sentenced to 30 to 60 years in state prison.

Eight young men testified against him, describing a range of abuse they said went from grooming and manipulation to fondling, oral sex and anal rape when they were boys.

Sandusky didn't testify at his trial but has maintained his innocence, acknowledging he showered with boys but insisting he never molested them.

​

 

[mplastered]

Torn on this one. Don't want a politician involved, but think the students and players got screwed.

 

[PatsFanatic]

^ They never would have got srewed had the university/coach/AD did the right thing in the first place and told police what happened (the whole truth) and showed Sandusky the door. The university would have taken a minor hit (publicity wise) but shit would have blown over quickly. Then Sandusky would have found it more difficult to molest more children, would not have had Penn st. as a lure to these young boys and plenty of lives could have been changed. But instead the worst case scenario played itself out.

Penn St. got what they deserved. And yes the players got screwed but not by the NCAA, by everyone in charge at their own school.

 

[mplastered]

^ They never would have got srewed had the university/coach/AD did the right thing in the first place and told police what happened (the whole truth) and showed Sandusky the door. The university would have taken a minor hit (publicity wise) but shit would have blown over quickly. Then Sandusky would have found it more difficult to molest more children, would not have had Penn st. as a lure to these young boys and plenty of lives could have been changed. But instead the worst case scenario played itself out.

Penn St. got what they deserved. And yes the players got screwed but not by the NCAA, by everyone in charge at their own school.

Then go after the assholes that lied and covered the shit up, and leave the kids out of it.

 

[PatsFanatic]

OH they are. But the University had to be punished in some way. I understand that you think it was unfair. My opinion is that it wasn't unfair.
Regardless, Penn st. will be just fine.

 

[VIEJODINOSAUR]

Penn State going 8-4 this year was miraculous....but they have 10 less scholarships to give each year for the next four years than other Division One teams...they shouldn't be penalized for that....penalize the people who covered it up....

 

[Wrigley]

All players had a chance to leave so there not being penalized, PSU should have been given the death penalty

 

[Murphy8276]

All players had a chance to leave so there not being penalized, PSU should have been given the death penalty

they are fighting it with the ncaa but I believe the amount of bans and vacated wins and things punishes the football program enough.. fry sandusky and whoever personally you want more (I fully agree) but the school football program itself I think has been quite shamed...

-murph

 

[Enfuego]

All players had a chance to leave so there not being penalized, PSU should have been given the death penalty

I think the Cubs should be given the death penalty for being shitty for the last 100 years.

 

[CHOPTALK]

Maybe the guy didn't do all he could do in the situation but your post indicating the coach was all about himself is ludicrous. The guy had millions of dollars yet lived in a shitty house all the while donating a ton of that money to the university. He created scholarships for PSU students and took a deep interest in the football team graduation rates.

If he was all about himself he would've left this job years ago and hundreds of former athletes wouldn't have attended his funeral service.

Your post couldn't be more off.

Look, I think the coach used some poor judgement in this entire situation. I think he had some information that something inappropriate was taking place with Sandusky and reported it but didn't look into it any further which I think he had an obligation to do. The million dollar question is should that poor judgement override his 50+ years of legend? In my opinion, no it should not.

And I think you guys are giving a free pass to the guy that should really get his ass kicked. McQuery should never coach college football again for witnessing what he witnessed and walking away. How can you have the opinion that Joe Paterno's statue should be taken down but nothing happen to a guy that witnesses a kid getting raped in a shower and walks home and calls his dad? That's absurd.

How does this show he was all about himself? Bad judgement? Yes. Selfish? Hardly.

The guy was getting old and we all know that but the program was getting recruits and the team was winning. There's no denying that. To call him selfish or say he was all about himself is out in left field.

Do you follow Penn St. at all? How have they been shit the last few years? As early as 2009 they were 11-2. Bowl games in 2010 and 2011.

Is it Paterno's job to take action or Paterno's boss that should take action? Shouldn't the president of the school be the authority to take action in this case after reported?

And again, how did he cover it up? I must admit that I'm not read in on all the up-to-date emails so if there was a blatant cover up by the coach then I'm wrong.

Joe Paterno was told of a possible inpropriety that took place in the football showers. He took that information and reported it to his boss...the university president. Should he have done more after he realized nothing was reported to the police? Yes.

What Joe Paterno did was not criminal. Bad judgement yes but not criminal. Your comparison of his lack of judgement being the same as an accomplice during a bank robber isn't in the same city, county, state or area code. It's not even close to being the same thing.

Cliff notes. More to come

 

[CHOPTALK]

Joe Paterno didn't witness a crime and the crime he was told about was described as "horsing around."

I guess you were there right? For those of us that were not present for McQueary and Paterno's conversation, this is what McQueary testified in a preliminary hearing he said to Paterno after the incident. He did not tell Paterno Sandusky had the kid pinned against the wall and was raping him. But of course you know Paterno knew of other incidences but just can't prove it right?

"He said he would not have used words like sodomy or intercourse with Paterno; he did not get into that much detail out of respect for the coach, he said.
Paterno told the grand jury that McQueary said he saw Sandusky doing something of a “sexual nature” with the youngster but that he didn’t press for details. “I didn’t push Mike . . . because he was very upset,” Paterno said.

“I knew Mike was upset, and I knew some kind of inappropriate action was being taken by Jerry Sandusky with a youngster.”

I'm not dense man, I'm just telling you what McQueary and Paterno both testified to the grand jury before the trial. Not my version of what happened but their version and their versions match each other.

McQueary sees something in the shower. He goes home and calls his dad who tells him to report it to Paterno. He calls Paterno and goes to his house and says he saw something inappropriate in the shower between Sandusky and a young boy. At this point it's clear he is not explicit in his description of what happened "out of respect for the coach." Paterno then calls Curley and reports what McQueary just told him.

I'm not sure what is hard to understand about this. McQueary was clearly embarrassed he had to tell Coach Paterno what he saw. He testified in court he told Paterno he saw something "sexual in nature."

You guys are assuming McQueary walked up to Paterno and said "hey coach, I just saw a kid getting but raped in the shower by Jerry Sandusky." That's clearly not what he said to him. Maybe if he did say that, Paterno would've done more. I don't think he did enough but McQueary clearly didn't tell the coach exactly what he saw in that shower that night.

Word for word from the Sandusky Grand Jury Findings.

"Paterno called Tim Curley, Penn St. athletic director and Paterno's immediate superior to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

I've been consistent throughout this entire thread in saying he exercised bad judgement in not following up on his report to Curley.

more to come

 

[CHOPTALK]

Guys, it's very clear many of you have not read the grand jury testimony which is an open document that all of you have access to just by doing a little research online.

It's obvious because many of you are guessing at what YOU THINK McQueary told Joe Paterno. The fact is that the grand jury document explains exactly what McQueary says he told Coach Paterno.

Instead of guessing, just do a little research on your own. Again, I'm not saying Paterno is innocent and should not have done more but you guys think McQueary went over and told Paterno he saw a kid being raped in the shower. According to McQueary's own testimony, this is not what he reported. Read it for yourselves.

And again, I'm not really sure what your point is. McQueary tells Paterno he witnessed something and he reported to the AD what McQueary told him. Did Paterno cover up the crime? Did he attempt to sweep it under the rug? No but of course he should've followed up and that was his mistake.

I ask again, how did Joe Paterno cover this up? If he did, wouldn't he have been charged?

All you can do as a poster is voice your opinion to the facts you have at your disposal at the time you post on these boards. When I commented on Zimmerman/Martin, I had read every document and looked at all the evidence out at that time. How in the world can I anticipate and comment on evidence that has yet to be released? That would be irresponsible as a poster and just stupid.

Your comment is irrelevant.

Who's ever said Jo didn't know anything?

more to come

 

[CHOPTALK]

Not at all Chop. I just have a problem saying he covered the situation up when he actually walked into his boss' office, sat down and told him exactly what McQueary reported to him about what he saw.

A cover up to me is Joe Paterno saying "Hey McQueary, you didn't see anything tonight in those showers so keep your mouth shut." He had information and reported it to his boss which is what we're all trained to do.

But...on the flip side...if you see Sandusky lifting weights in your building after the incident had been reported I surely would've been way more involved in finding out exactly what the outcome of the situation was. That is where all of these guys failed. How can you not ask what the victim's name is and if he's ok at the very least? How can you not go straight to authorities especially given the 1998 report and how do you allow him to keep coming into the Lasch Building? All of that boggles my mind.

wow
lets just agree to disagree.

How can you say what you say and not point any fault to JP?

Why do you think I point no fault at JP? Of course he's guilty for not doing the following (I've been steadfast in saying it throughout the entire thread).

A) No even finding out if the kid was hurt or who he was.
B) Not following up on his report and asking what the outcome was.
C) Allowing Sandusky to use his facilities even after what he reported to his boss.

With Joe Paterno being the godfather of the program, it was his duty to follow up on his report to ensure the case was properly investigated and he didn't do that. Of course Joe has fault. They all do.

So what are we arguing about then?

You admit yourself that he did not to do anything to prevent access to PSU (which you say is disgusting) which he had 100% ability to do so if he wanted to.
You admit yourself admit that he did nothing which is wrong.

So what are we arguing about then?

You just admit all this stuff that he did and did not do but yet you say he should still be held in high esteem with his statue to remain on campus.
I dont understand your logic.

What what JoePa had to have done in your estimation to deserve the statue coming down? Would he have had to join Sandusky in a threesome gangbang?

I just dont understand anymore.

I can almost buy your stance at the beginning of the thread before all this new info came out.
Your original stand was it was not proven that JoePa did anything to help Sandusky do his thing.

Now its completely proven that he knew, and completely proven that he not only did not stop him, he helped him victimize the kids.

I really am at a loss for words trying to understand your stance.

Basically what I think you are saying is that yes you realize he knew about it, and yes he helped Sandusky prey on these children, and yes its disgusting that he did not do nothing.

But so what JoePa is ok, lets leave the statue up. He was a good guy anyway because he told his boss about it.

Chop, real simple. I'm saying he was wrong and it's disgusting and all of that. I'm also saying he did not cover anything up. He went to his boss and reported the incident. Yes, he continued to let it happen and that's a damn shame and disgusting but I don't see anything that says he covered anything up. That's it.

Its just starting to get good.
Stay with me

 

[CHOPTALK]

This is where we'll disagree. It's ok to disagree but just disagree.

The evidence you show in emails between Curley, Spanier and Shulz shows nothing in the least bit that Paterno tried to keep authorities from investigating. If nothing else, it's complete hearsay. Are there emails from Joe Paterno saying this? I've said all along he's guilty of not doing all he could do to prevent this from happening. He's guilty of doing nothing.

1) Paterno did know since 1998. We know this because the mother of the victim contacted the campus police and we know that. That is indisputable.
2) You are 100% correct. He did nothing to limit Sandusky's access and that is disgusting.
3) Please show me the page number and quote from the report that shows Paterno asked PSU brass not to alert authorities.
4) You are correct. He did nothing just like you said in point 2.

Again, they did know about the 1998 incident and that incident was reported and investigated with the district attorney deciding not to file charges based on lack of evidence in the case.

Please show me where Paterno asked PSU authorities not to alert authorities. If he did, I'm completely wrong. I'd like to read it though. Maybe I'm overlooking something.

So what are we arguing about then?

You admit yourself that he did not to do anything to prevent access to PSU (which you say is disgusting) which he had 100% ability to do so if he wanted to.
You admit yourself admit that he did nothing which is wrong.

So what are we arguing about then?

You just admit all this stuff that he did and did not do but yet you say he should still be held in high esteem with his statue to remain on campus.
I dont understand your logic.

What what JoePa had to have done in your estimation to deserve the statue coming down? Would he have had to join Sandusky in a threesome gangbang?

I just dont understand anymore.

I can almost buy your stance at the beginning of the thread before all this new info came out.
Your original stand was it was not proven that JoePa did anything to help Sandusky do his thing.

Now its completely proven that he knew, and completely proven that he not only did not stop him, he helped him victimize the kids.

I really am at a loss for words trying to understand your stance.

Basically what I think you are saying is that yes you realize he knew about it, and yes he helped Sandusky prey on these children, and yes its disgusting that he did not do nothing.

But so what JoePa is ok, lets leave the statue up. He was a good guy anyway because he told his boss about it.

Chop, real simple. I'm saying he was wrong and it's disgusting and all of that. I'm also saying he did not cover anything up. He went to his boss and reported the incident. Yes, he continued to let it happen and that's a damn shame and disgusting but I don't see anything that says he covered anything up. That's it.

Hey dude.
When you are a person in charge like JoePa.
You dont need to tell someone to call the cops dammit.

You pick up the phone your damm self and call the cops, and why your are at call the cops on your boss to who told you to keep it quiet.

I cant even believe we are still talking about this.

FUCK YOUR BOSS!
If you boss dont call the cops. YOU call the cops.
Thats called covering up.

And then JoePa lets this evil man have unlimited access to the facility to do unlimited hurt to these kids.
But yet you say just because he told his boss he is not covering anything up?

Come on man. Please read what you are writing.

what?