PINO......you really should consider doing this....(inside)

[PatrickMcIrish]

I agree Tin. I said above if one goes down it does not necessarily impact the other books but that is probably misleading. They are connected as they all use the same line service which is where a big part of the problem lie. If the stronger books under the FutureBet umbrella can't make it than it's hard to feel good about the other books.

The problem is most think once football starts even the weaker of the weak will make it until the end of November. These days not sure that is a guarantee of anything.

 

[Pwar58]

Patrick,
edited

[This message was edited by Pino@SafariCasino.com on August 28, 2003 at 10:29 AM.]

 

[FatFrank]

Pino,

If you will... Answer my question on page one.

Thanks

 

[TTinCO]

Pino, why not "plug the hole" vulnerability wise and make this guy look like a whiny scamming asshole?

Don't tell me it's some "double top secret elaborate scheme".

Let's hear it...until then, you're a stiff book.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pino@SafariCasino.com:
Patrick,
For one thing I could probably burry you with cash so money is not the issue. That fact that I do not need your cash or anyone else’s is the reason I can afford to stand my ground for $953. People will learn to understand that I stick to my word. You can call it what ever you want. I got swindled for a few dollars. I will be damned if I got taken for an extra $953. Just to point out it would have been slightly embarrassing listening to all of you if the amount was only $53. But my position would remain unchanged. It’s not about the money. I can pay that amount in a heart beat but I will not. As for the $953, $350 was bonuses So he is out of pocket $600 and I am out $6000. Looks like I ended up with the much shorter end of the stick. No problem life goes on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Pino - I agree, I am sure you can "bury me" with your wealth. I'm just an average sized player with an average bankroll, nothing special at all. If you have more than I do, congratulations. I make no claims in this area. If I owed a man the amount of money you owe I guarantee you I would pay him though. I have come to find out when a man insists it has nothing to do with the money, the money is always the reason. If you are tight wth cash and can't pay him I'd respect you more for being honest about it rather than pretending you are loaded and just refusing to pay.

As far as the player goes I will close the case once you tell me the reason you are using for not paying.

 

[Pwar58]

Patrick
That must be the reason I offered lakerfan cash up front. No deposit necessary. You are right. it must be because of the cash.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pino@SafariCasino.com:
You are right. it must be because of the cash.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for your honesty on the matter. At least you have gotten off the "I never saw the 5 e-mails you sent me" excuse. Looks like several of the FutureBet books are having cash flow problems. Is there anything you can do Pino to help generate cash flow so you can pay your players? Hope things pick up for you down the road, at least the player only got stiffed for less than a dime.

 

[Pwar58]

Fat Frank
Futurebet does not pay out that fast. Neither does a few other of the big wigs.

 

[Pwar58]

Patrick
if you really were interested in the reason you should have taken me up on my offer to settle it. You did not. you chose to ramble on and on about how I did not get your emails and that you tried to email support. When I confronted you and simply asked you to send me an email and I would explain you basically said "@#$%^ you". I took that as "you are a very busy guy and your schedule does not allow you to screw around with such piddle things." No problem. I also am a very busy guy and don't need to discuss this any longer.Anyone I promised cash to and did not get it feel free to post. Anyone else that SafariCasino ever stiffed feel free to post. Scamming does not entitle you to accuse a book of being a stiff.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Frank/Tin - Pino cut this guys limits to $200 last December and though he was VERY VERY slow in paying had been doing it with him up until the guy posted in the forums about how long it took to get paid. At that point it looks as though Pino decided to "teach this player a lesson", LOL. We have all seen the type who at any cost will extract some level of revenge against someone.

Pino - if you do not object I will post some copies of the e-mails you exchanged between yourself and the player. I think it is fair they are able to decide for themselves what is going on. I'm not even sure what the latest excuse of yours is but we all can see this man is not getting paid on money he won so only fair they decide for themselves what is going on. Let me know if you disagree. I don't wish to be ugly, just doing my job.

 

[TTinCO]

Fair enough Pino...If you think that Patrick has an issue with you, exchange phone #'s with another mod here or elsewhere & let's get to the bottom of this.

Forums have arbitration...I don't think that the player would turn it down.

 

[Pwar58]

Patrick,
I do not need to generate cash flow to pay this guy because he is not getting paid. Which part of this sentence are you having problems with?

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

I just read your last post, of course I am happy to try and resolve it but you just said he won't be getting paid. What is there to resolve? A good start would be letting us know why you are withholding this guys money. And what proof do you have of whatever excuse you come up with today. You can not just keep a players money and expect others to forget about it Pino. This is a serious issue when you steal money from a player, do you realize that? You must not only have proof you must be able to show it. If not a shop with money would pay this man and show him the door.


Tin - I have ZERO personal issues with Pino. In fact like others I used to think the guy was alright until this came along. I always thought he was fair though I do not play with Safari. I am pretty sure he is grasping at straws as to why he won't pay rather than thinking we have a problem. First it was the site, then the e-mails, now it is a personal problem between us? Starting to sound like some folks who owe me money, one excuse after another. I will be happy to allow another site to look things over once we found out what the reason he won't pay is. It has gone back and forth a few times. I think it's decided he won't pay no matter what but willing to do anything we can to try.

 

[TTinCO]

No prob Patrick...the comment was purely intended to be "excuse elimination".

 

[Pwar58]

Patrick,
My emails are confidential and at the time were based on information I had then. Did you get my last email to him that explained what the problem was? Obviously not, because you wouldn't be asking me these stupid questions if you did. I asked you to write to me. Why did you refuse to? I did not have a problem going over the issue with you. There may have been an interesting storyline for a site like this to investigate. But you choose not to for whatever reason. So now you pissed me off also and don’t even want to discuss it with you. You have shown your true colors. Helping solve problems is not your forte. Bashing non participating books is. So keep bashing me. I get to defend myself and at the end get more coverage that most advertisers on your site. And guess what I get a few sign ups that heard of Safari through this board. So I guess it’s not all bad.

 

[PanchoSanza]

Why don't you pay for your advertising like everyone else?

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Easy question here, the players want to know why aren't you paying him? Stop looking for excuses and let us know what is going on. You are keeping money that is not yours, please tell us why? No reason to get angry with me, I have done nothing to you.

As far as sign-ups that is not my business, all I do is present what I know. Others make their own decisions. I am not against you or trying to do anything other than find out why you won't pay. You seem to be deeply rooted in things like revenge and hate. I see it in how you try and attack me or to show me up on things. Tellng me how much money you have and how you are getting sign-ups over this, LOL. I am still trying to find out (after 5 e-mails) what is going on other than you being a stiff. You are the only one who can solve this. You are the only one who can provide your reason for taking his money. I am still trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but let's get on the issue ~~> the money you owe this player.

Now relax and tell us why you feel you should be able to confiscate his money. Thank you.

 

[Pwar58]

Patrick,
Let’s make a deal. You send me a contract that says I will get the equivalent cash back in advertising on this site for the money I lost and I will allow you to mediate. Since you are attempting to get this player his cash you should offer me the same. Since this player will never give me back the cash he already received I will hold you to it. By the way he was only part of the problem. The others unfortunately got all paid out before I could do anything about it. So if you are ready to put your money where your mouth is so am I. If I can not get you the proof, I will pay this guy. This info will remain confidential. If you post any info on this board I will sue you and this site. You will sign a confidentiality agreement. Like I said my losses on this little scam were about $50,000. So if you can afford to cover it, I am all for it.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pino@SafariCasino.com:
Patrick,
Let’s make a deal. You send me a contract that says I will get the equivalent cash back in advertising on this site for the money I lost and I will allow you to mediate. Since you are attempting to get this player his cash you should offer me the same. Since this player will never give me back the cash he already received I will hold you to it. By the way he was only part of the problem. The others unfortunately got all paid out before I could do anything about it. So if you are ready to put your money where your mouth is so am I. If I can not get you the proof, I will pay this guy. This info will remain confidential. If you post any info on this board I will sue you and this site. You will sign a confidentiality agreement. Like I said my losses on this little scam were about $50,000. So if you can afford to cover it, I am all for it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Whew! Finally after all this time we at least get a reason for why you won't pay. Pino I understand your frustration if you were indeed scammed by some players but you can not arbritrarily take money from other people. I don't care about advertising and all that, if you have proof this player is involved than I will be the first to back you up. No need for threats, I am only interested in justice being served. He was only betting $200 a game and you think he was part of a team scamming you at those limits? Anyway since you are keeping his money and making these allegations it is on you to provide some proof. That's only fair. Please send this to me ASAP.

I will keep an open mind while you send me the proof of this player being involved. Thank you for finally addressing the issue.

 

[Pwar58]

Just what I thought put up the story any you get ridiculed. So you can all read this. Thank bucsfan for his intelligent response.
ACW
$4000 in wagers not deposits. you should have been able to tell it was dollar volume not amont of deposits. Therefore $350 was pretty generous

[This message was edited by Pino@SafariCasino.com on August 21, 2003 at 03:30 AM.]