PINO......you really should consider doing this....(inside)

[PatrickMcIrish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TTinCO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by valdosta:
Regardless of what happens here, reading through the thread it's safe to say Pino is an asshole

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you pegged it Val....Mr. high & mighty who won't give out any details & keeping a players' money.

In the absence of any proof, PINO IS A STIFF-and an arrogant prick of a stiff at that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You were right on the money again TIN. This is a guy we should listen to more often.

 

[Slash]

Glad to hear that you have finally seen the light Pat

Pino has always been a clueless moron. I certainly don't hope that anyone accepted any "bail-out" offers from Pino recently. They will need another bail-out one of these days.

 

[Pwar58]

Letter to Patrick
You are as full off shit as the rest of them. I did not say you have to insinuate anything. I said that I have the right to defend my rules. You said I gave you no proof. Well I gave you his betting numbers and how they fell off the cliff after my initial contact with him. That alone said something was astray. When I asked him if he was betting with other individuals he said he was not. One of his cohorts stopped betting immediately while another shifted strategies. The net effect is they all wound down thier action and concentrated on getting payed out. The only point I asked to make is that I have the right to defend my rules which are clearly stated. I asked you to state that players should read the rules before they play. What the #$%^& am I asking you to insinuate. I am not even asking you to pick sides. So if you can't read don't even bother replying. The biggest accusation were posted by you not Rob. Rob sent you his side of the story. After you refused to email me after a number of request I sent you my side of the story anyways. Only then did I get a soften reply to pretend you are trying to solve matters. You got 2 sides of the story. Ask Rob to prove to you he was not working with someone else. I got my data some of which I shared with you. What did he supply you with. Nothing. So my beef is with you. You are the one that shot his mouth off about I not answering my emails when in fact all I do is answer emails. You are the one that set me up like a liar. You are the one that has to correct this. If not go @#$%^ yourself and don't right back. Don't shift burdens onto me. I truly don't give a shit. You must understand I DO NOT CARE. Figure out how you can take responsibility for YOUR false accusations and maybe we can move forward. My battle is with you. Rob was easy. You are the real problem. So start addressing how you can reduce the damage you caused and we can discuss it. You are the one who kept rambling on and on about wanting to settle this but just kept making things worse. If you can't figure this out I suggest you find yourself a half decent day job because you are doing a horrible job at this. Rob getting paid is only a side issue. I asked you to admit that i may ond i repeat may have a legitimate claim based on the numbers I gave you. You don't want to even look at that possibbility. This is my last letter unless I see something positive in your reply. remember You are my problem My issues are with you.

 

[Slash]

Why don't you pay "Rob" then, Pino?

edit: unnecessary things in post

[This message was edited by Slash on August 26, 2003 at 12:10 PM.]

 

[Pwar58]

Slash
The short answer.
Rob is not entitled to any money. He broke our rules. He was notified and he lied. He could have admitted he was not aware of Rule #7 but he did not. If a player continues playing he does so at his own peril.My examining his play showed he was in fact lying. I offered to pay this guy if Patrick retracts his false accusations against me. He would not. His lies about emailing me 5 times. Only after i responded on this board could he not hide behind the "I tried to email Pino" excuse. But Patrick is one of your guys and will ultimately win any battle with me. Paying this player would have been worth it if Patrick admitted he was wrong. He will not.

 

[TheGeneral+]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I offered to pay this guy if Patrick retracts his false accusations against me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, you have crossed another line Pino.

 

[valdosta]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The General:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I offered to pay this guy if Patrick retracts his false accusations against me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now, you have crossed another line Pino.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

****ing ridiculous. Now it's someone else's fault that Pino isn't paying. This doufus is all over the place. Is he not paying him because of Patrick or because this player supposedly broke a rule?? Hopefully he can figure that out.

 

[DreamMaker]

Pino,

here's what you should do :

- Pay the guy ( its less than a dime )
- Work it out with Pat.

best way out of this mess.

my .02....

 

[valdosta]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patrick McIrish:
Thanks man. I get some heat but I don't take it personal, it comes with the territory. I spoke out as a poster alot so I can't blame others for it either. There is a lot of differing views out here as people often have a vested interest in a lot of these decisions, you can not make them all happy. Also it makes it easy as I know in my heart what we do here, we aren't perfect but we genuinely try and do all we can. I feel bad for the player in this case because I knew right away he was legit.

I still feel like we failed when we can't resolve it but we did everything we could. I can not post that Pino and Safari casino were justified in any of this. Luckily for me the player was very professional about it all and understood completely. Made me feel good we saw this the same way. In fact he insisted as well we were not going to prop Pino in any manner over this. I thought by saying "the issue has been resolved between the parties" it would be more than enough for Pino. It would have been if he ever was going to pay any of this.

Thanks again for the good words Valdosta, we'll get the next one. Drop me a line if I can ever assist you with anything sir - patrickmcirish@therx.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's good that you have thick skin as you probably need it with some of the scum you come across

Anyways, as long as you did all you can I don't see it as a failure. Unfortunantely you can't force unhonest people to be honest. I think this website does a good job trying to settle disputes from what I have seen

I am not afraid to use your email, I emailed you when I had issues getting in this place and you helped me out.

 

[Pwar58]

Why do I bother replying??
I said the player is not entitled to the money period.
I said I would consider paying if Patrick retracts his statements
Statement #1. I emailed Pino 5 times and he never responded.
This is in fact not true as he never emailed me once. I even offered him an excuse as to why I may not have received his email. Patrick just continued belittling me on this board even after I asked him to email me and I offered him my direct email address.
Statement #2. He wrote to me stating he would not admit to anything he has no proof of.
I asked him to retract that accusation also as I never asked him to admit anything other than “I have a right to enforce my Rules and Regulations”. Is that so hard to admit? He refuses to do that but rather stated he would just consider the case closed. When a case is closed without retraction all statements are considered facts in the eyes of the average reader. That is simply not acceptable.
Statement #3. I have no proof this player did anything wrong.
I supplied some data I had and asked him to get the player to explain. The player supplied him with nothing other that Safari owes me money. There was no mediation. He did not look at or question the facts. He simply said that it was a waste of his time and for under a dime I should just pay and move on. Don’t come across as a mediator when you have no intention of doing so.

 

[outandup]

Pino,
You must be kidding. All this over what is it 950 bucks. No real smart.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Keep the money Pino, anyone that fights this hard for it must need it. Player understands what sort of person he ran in to and does not want to kiss your butt any longer trying to get his money. I am tired of it too. You won the case, you get to confiscate the cash this player had. He is more disgusted with you than I am, it's almost worth having his money stolen so people will know this was not resolved and that you forever took this money.

Here are some of the e-mails the player supplied to me. Pino kept asking him to "prove" this player was innocent?? He kept the players money but wanted the player to prove he was not a professional bettor, not provide any proof on his own. LOL. As you read this you can see the level of sophistication of this guy and his shop. The player knows the money is gone, this is just to show you why this man isn't paid. Also pay attention to the slow pay issue in these e-mails. When this player posted about it on the board is when Pino got enraged and decided to steal this players money. Surely even Pino is not stupid enough to think this guy is a professional bettor. Even if he was than boot him and show him the door as you pay him. You don't keep his money. WSEX paid out 40k on an issue because they admitted the player bet his own money and Pino is taking this guys money ($939) because others bet the same game as he did. LOL. He came to the conclusion back in December this guy was a professional and cut him to $200 but it's August and this guy still never got paid? It's almost funny. I need to get some rest and will post more tomorrow but you an see this guys style. Same thing with BetFlamingo, they will try and play the victim in it so it justifies them stealing what is not theirs. Sorry for the harsh words but this was such a waste of time it feels good to move on. I have never dealt with an book rep with this amount of hate and anger towards the world. I tried as hard as I could to be decent towards him but to no avail. Good luck Pino.

PS - I woud not post these but the case is over acccording to Pino and the player has given me permission. I'll let others decide for themselves what is going on and if Pino was forced to steal this money. I will post some he sent me personally later tomorrow.

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

Pino 12/12/02
Hello Robert,
I am changing your betting limits to $200 per bet. I have a problem with
joint betting and making the same plays with a abnormally high winning
percentage. I do not take wise guy action.I watch my action carefully. I
have many bets all over the place but when you and your freinds end up
betting a total of $1000 or more on a game that I have no other action
on it now makes me the bettor and it makes no scense to lay it off
because I might as well ask you to bet else where. I will leave the
limit at $200 for the time being and ask that you do not bet the same
gamess. If I continue to have you all take the same games to bet on I
will close the accounts. If you want to make the same plays I will ask
that only 1 of you play at my site and the others play else where.
Pino
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RD 12/12/02
Pino,

Just let me clear a few things up

First,I have no problem with the reduction to $200 (although I would much
prefer $300 as that is what I have normally been betting lately). You have
to do whatever is necessary to insure profitability for your business and if
that's what it takes, then so be it. Nobody wants to see you make a profit
more than I do.If you recall, I came to Safari after having played at NAB
which was run by people who who didn't take care of business and we all know
how that ended.

Second, I have no betting friends. Never have and never will. I don't know
how you came up with that. I make my own selections and bet them, normally
at $300 a game. That's hardly a wiseguy(although,in a way,I am flattered
that someone would think I was).Yesterday was unusual in that I ended up
betting $1200 on a game(which, I think, is what this is all about)but that
was by error. I was trying to bet $300 on Indiana on the moneyline. I
entered the bet,clicked on the screen to send it, but the software hung and
I never got the confirmation, so I pressed stop. No money came out of the
account so I thought the bet did not go in. So then I tried to bet Indiana
with the spread. Same thing happened. I tried twice more with the same
result-software hangs,no confirmation,no change in account balance- and then
I gave up thinking nothing went in. I closed the site and came back later to
see if the problem had been fixed only to find that all 4 bets had been
recorded and I now had 4 times more than I wanted on that game. I started to
e-mail you to correct this but I have been winning lately so I just let it
ride. I am assuming a lot of other people bet this game and now you think I
am part of some sort of syndicate. I assure you I am not!!! I don't know how
to correct this since I have no knowledge or control over what other people
might bet. I guess I'll just have to hope that nobody bets the same games as
me and maybe I can get my limits back to $300

Hope this all works out for both of us, and appreciate the fact that you are
monitoring your sportsbook closely so nothing gets out of hand.

Regards,

Bob
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Pino 12/12/02
There are 3 guys all making the more or less the same bets. Same nba same ncaa bets. Now you may not know each other but must be getting your information from the same source. the result to my book is the same. I have been watching it for over 10 days and The fact that the only three that are betting some ncaa game are you three time and time again does not stike me as a coincidence. I was going to say something last week but i just let it ride for another week and again allways the same bets . And many times for $330. The bets are not exactly bat for bet but same teams night after night and same side night after night. Like I said you are free to play for $200 per game.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RD 12/12/02
Fair enough but let me say again that I have no knowledge of who these other 2 guys are. Also I'll limit myself to 1 game a day to decrease the likelihood that someone else might be playing the same game. Nevertheless I still can't control what anyone else might play.
Bob
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Pino 12/12/02
What service are you getting your picks from? you must all be using the same service as it can not be a simple coincidence. The limit is $200 per game. I am willing to try this for a week or so and see how this works out. I hate giving away business but I am not getting a balanced betting.
At $200 per game it puts it a little more into perspective .
Pino
Pino
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RD 12/02/02
Pino,
I don't know if you would call it a service but I use a website called Statfox(<http://www.statfox.com&gt

. They give you stats but best of all they list trends for all games which I use to make my betting decisions. They haven't done too well in football but in baskets they've been excellent. I was thinking along the same line regarding the other 2 guys perhaps using the same or a similar service when you mentioned that even if we don't know each other(which we don't), we were getting our info from the same source. Statfox is inexpensive and has many subscribers. Like you say it is too unusual to be a coincidence, but if someone were getting the same information it's not surprising that they would bet the same games.
Once again, I have no problem with you lowering limits. You have to do what you have to do in order to balance your action and I commend you for your prompt action. The alternative is much worse.
Regards,
Bob
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pino 12/12/02
will be calling one of the other guys and ask which service he uses. For the time being you are rated a professional gambler and have a $200 limit. We are removing our overnight lines as we have found along with others that the lines are soft and we have been hurt by them. thanks for your understanding
Pino

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RD 1/21/03

Pino,
I'm waiting six weeks now and all I get is excuses and broken promises
Bob
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pino 1/21/03
sent off the email you sent me. It seems quite odd that they keep delaying. I was told that the funds were mailed on Tuesday last week. I am waiting confirmation and will get back to you. On another note. your volume after I adjusted the problem with my lines has gone down substantially.
Pino
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RD 1/21/03
Pino,
Hope you can get this taken care of. It's MORE than odd that they keep delaying.
What's your point regarding my volume? First you have a problem that I am betting with two other guys. So I tell you from now on I'll only bet one or two games per day(at the $200 limit you set) so I don't have to be accused of anything, and now you have a problem with my volume. And all the while you don't pay!!!!
I came here for the rebates on action to recover what I lost at Nab. Since I never got the rebates, and undoubtedly never will, my action is now going to books that pay on demand. Even you can understand that.
Bob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pino 1/21/03
They money we owe you will be paid just like the other payments have been made. Since the 1st of January you have made only 15 wagers in 22 days. Your plays are mostly college bball. You made many bets when we had a problem with soft lines. I am not blaming you. You had come to my site asking for comps to help you out of your NAB losses. Are you aware that some books and I will not name any would have already shut down your account. I did not do that. In December we had the 3 players I had mentioned win over $30,000. Now most of that has been paid. I am saying that you are betting mostly college ball and nothing else. You are well aware that college ball is a perennial loser for many shops but we offer it to keep clients happy just like we offer baseball which also offers very low margins. If that is mostly what you will play I am not interested in your business. I did give you already $300 or $350. You have already won over $10,000. So if you want to take your action else where be my guest. As for your withdrawal I still find that un acceptable and am following up on it. Will let you know the answer soon.
Pino
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RD 1/21/03
Pino,
I just checked my account history for the last 22 days. Your software shows 24 bets in 22 days not 15. Basically just what I told you I would play when you cut my limits- one play a day. I took the time to count them up 12 college hoops,8 NBA, 1 NFL and 3 college football. Unless your software is lying, your contention that all I am "betting mostly college ball and nothing else" is not true. Also I have not won $10,000. It is becoming very obvious that no matter what I play you are not going to be happy.
I'll be anxiously awaiting news on the withdrawals I made on Dec.12 and Dec23 of last year.
Bob
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pino 1/21/03
well it took me 3 weeks to realize that I had a problem with the lines I had. And you may be right there may still be problems with the software as i only see 14 completed wagers and 1 pending.

110943 1/21/2003 Point Spread Wager Pending 1.91 $110.00 $0.00 $0.00
10928 1/3/2003 Event Under Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $420.20 $0.00
11521 1/8/2003 Event Under Wager Resolved 1.91 $110.00 $210.10 $0.00
97497 1/1/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $0.00 $0.00
99622 1/3/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $110.00 $0.00 $0.00
99624 1/3/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $110.00 $0.00 $0.00
102534 1/7/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $0.00 $0.00
103543 1/12/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $420.20 $0.00
103860 1/10/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $420.20 $0.00
103908 1/9/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $110.00 $210.10 $0.00
104559 1/10/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $110.00 $210.10 $0.00
106698 1/13/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $420.20 $0.00
107641 1/15/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $0.00 $0.00
108136 1/16/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $420.20 $0.00
108957 1/18/2003 Point Spread Wager Resolved 1.91 $220.00 $0.00 $0.00

I am not sure where the problem is but I see mostly college ball games. If I could I would limit collegeball to $100 per game but at the moment the software does not allow me to do that unless I put the limit on all the games. As for the winnings including comps it is $9903.98. That in itself is not the problem. It was the picking of all the soft lines and dramatically increasing the number of wagers during that time. Why is it that the number of wagers went down when all I did was reduce the amount of each wager not the quantity of wagers. If you are only looking for weak lines and that is the only business I get I repeat I am not interested. I have said that to customers in the past and Iwill repeat that. All I wanted was a fair deal which that was good for you and also good for me. If you do not see my point just cash out and we will take care of getting you your checks. Like I said I was under the impression that the $2882 check had gone out last wek and if it has not i will follow up on it. below is the email I got this weekend.
Pino,

As I stated to you in my email on Friday, these players have all been paid
out. A check was sent to each player on Wednesday.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pino 1/21/03

Also my software may be wrong but I am obviously not happy with what I see. I repeat it may be wrong but we seem to be looking at 2 different set of numbers??
Pino
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RD 1/21/03
Pino,
Your software might not be wrong. What I did was enter 22 days(the number of days you used) under "My Transactions. It turns out some of those bets were on 12/30 and 12/31. You can try that and see what you get, just to see if the software is working. Nevertheless I still come up with 24 bets in 22 days and I more today
I understand all your points but you can not accept the fact that people do not play when there is a question of getting their winnings. On Jan 1 I already had 2 withdrawals pending with no payment in sight. If someone can't get their prevoius winnings why would they try to win more. I insist the only intelligent thing to do was cut back and I was right. It's now three weeks later and I still haven't been paid. Suppose I had won. It would only be more money I couldn't get to.
Bob
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Pino 1/21/03
Well it is obvious you do not believe you will get paid so these are mute points. From my side I know you will get paid so these issues concern me. I will look into the payment problems as they are a immediate problem also for me. As you can see from the note that I recieved that I was told the money was sent and I want to see if that is indeed the fact or if I am being misled or there is some mix up. I can tell you that your withdrawal of the 12 was on that list of checks that they say were sent out last wednesday. One customer got his on Friday and anotherone in Nevada got a check on Saturday so I know some went out . I will follow up on your withdrawals.
Pino
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Pino 1/21/03
I recieved confirmation that the check was sent.
Pino
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RD 1/22/03
Thank you. Will let you know when I receive it.
Bob
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RD 1/27/03
Still no check and the software at the site still lists the withdrawal as pending.
Bob
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Note: Finally did get this check in February. And the last time I heard from Pino was right after I posted
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Pino 3/6/03

thanks for the posts. the $8264 that you already received means nothing. I would say more but would rather not. You will be paid in due time.
Pino,

Ten weeks today and still no check. Did anything go out last week?

Bob

 

[PatrickMcIrish]

I will be away the rest of the day but will provide what else I can in the next few days. It's sort of hard to prove this kid is not a professional bettor like Pino insisted. The burden should be to prove he is. Truth is even if he was he still has no right to keep this man's money, I told him that over and over. Boot him and show him the door but you can't take what is not yours. Also in this you can see the player asked for one pay out in December and didn't get it until February, this was before they had trouble!! The last pay-out he asked for never did even come at all.

I apologize to the forum for the tone of it but I feel it is important the forum be exposed to what sort of books are out there waiting for post up money. I tried all I could but Pino has said he is keeping the money no matter what. Beware because Pino may not be the only one....

 

[TheGeneral+]

Pino,

Give us the exact reason why you have not paid this player?

Thanks

 

[outandup]

Pino,
You should hire a PR guy, this makes very little sense.

 

[valdosta]

This player is guilty of winning and apparently that's not allowed at Pino's Sportsbook. What a crime!!

This place is trash and has been exposed as such. I'd be embarrassed if I was Pino coming in here.

 

[TheGeneral+]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The General:
Pino,

Give us the exact reason why you have not paid this player?

Thanks<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Pino?

 

[PIPE]

THIS GUY IS THE BIGGEST CLOWN IN THE OFFSHORE WORLD HES A LOSER SO HE STIFFS SOMEONE GO FIGURE PAY THE MAN THEN SHOW HIM THE DOOR BUT STIFF HIM BECAUSE YOU FEEL A FEW PEOPLE BEAT YOU MAYBE THIS GUY HAS NO PLAYERS AT HIS BOOK THATS WHAT I SEE BY HIS POSTS MAYBE THATS WHY
I THINK HE HAS NOT PAID THIS PLAYER BECAUSE HES GOT NO MONEY

 

[dimeplayersonly]

PIPE...........No way according to Pinhead..


Quote by pinto "ive got money to bury people"