Pinnacle !

wantitall4moi · Jul 27, 2004

SS EXACTLY, I point out those gross line differentials all the time. Like when Canbet had LA LAkers to win the NBA Title +320, but they were +360 to beat SA in a SERIES. So they were 40 cents higher to win a series than to win that series then two more?

But that number stayed. But I didn't have a problem all that much as they were obviously buried on LA and didn't want anymore action on them at that point. But Pin took the action, then took the number down, then reposted the number at an exaggerated number IMO.

They probably could have posted 7 and people would/could have cited it at a 1.5 game difference and that would still be defined as a bad line, and I would agree. But it seems to me that 6 is WAY low, and is an over move.

I am waiting to see them get buried on the over, and see that at -190 or so. Then what? Can they claim foul them too? AND THEN post up 7? I mean it is like puting up a guide line and finding out where the sentiment is. And adjusting accordingly.

I mean books have enough advantages, they don't need any more.

I don't even care, I just like typing and bullshitting. Pin just made it obvious. But enough guys are up their ass that this flaw will be overlooked.

If you really want to see where they make mistakes look at when they have to correlate something out.

Why do you think they don't offer series prices on a regular basis? Because they don't have a clue as to how to set the odds. I pointed out a dozen or so NBA sereis mistakes they made in terms of MLs versus series pay offs. They just go brain dead in that area. Similar to their Alt RL odds a couple years ago, they were 60 to 80 cents too high in a lot of cases, they have since adjusted, but they still have a few here or there that are out of whack.

picasso · Jul 27, 2004

Yes, I think something most of us agree with is that something needs to be done about the bad line rule in general. It's been debated numerous times, yet nothing has changed. Some books will compromise and allow the bet to stand if the event has already started. Other books will take an alternative slimy approach and wait for the outcome before deciding whether to void a bet.

So, what would people suggest here? One thing that comes to mind is posting criteria for what constitutes a bad line, as in a threshold for how far a line must be off from some consensus line in order to be voidable. But I know this approach is full of holes...

I know some stand by the "if you book it, you honor it" mentality. While I can understand this perspective, I don't know that it is realistic due to extreme cases. For example, due to a typo, a book posts 100/1 instead of 10/1 for some particular event. That's an awfully big error. The elite books can afford it, but what about all the low-end and middle-of-the-road books? The last thing this industry needs is more books going under. Taking hits like this certainly wouldn't help matters. Sure, it's the book's responsibility for making an error, but that's human nature. Every book posts an occasional error, especially given the increasing number of offerings nowadays.

Anyways, just thinking out loud... Would really like to see this rule done away with in a manner fair to all parties. But I haven't heard of any realistic solutions...which is probably why the rule persists...

wantitall4moi · Jul 27, 2004

Pin will definately get the beneift of the doubt, as Ohio St, Ok state are similar I guess,and the numbers were the same at 8.5.

But I would like to know exactly how much action they took on this game. As stated, I would assume it is the same amount as Texas has taken, and slightly less than what Wis has taken.

But what is that in terms of money? Is it worth the negativity it brings? Even if it is say 20K, whay not make the compromise I suggested? And if the players take their shot at the middle, then accept that bet, then show them the door. Or don't take the bet, THEN show them the door.

A lot of people don't like middlers scalpers to begin with, and if a disclaimer letter was sent, then that would garner Pin more sympathy. But they didn't do that.

They actually took the mre hard line and more professional apprach. Of cancelling, thus heading off any future possible bannings of players. But they still took the action.

So they are stuck. That is why if they had wanted to remain consistant they wouldnt have posted the Ok St line after the fact again. As it seems to me it is a "we told you so". Since I cannot find any other place that offers that team with a season total. So they seem to be going out of their way to make apoint.

So while some of their actions are more "noble", for lack of a better word, they have also had some questionable actions that pretty much countermand these.

usc · Jul 27, 2004

I find this to be an astonishing position for Pinnacle to take, since when I bet the wrong horse they wouldn't let me change it even though the race wasn't going for at least 2 hours. They said that all bets are final. Therefore, they should accept all of these wagers.

superstar · Jul 27, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>about the line movement after the prop opened, I doubt there's a guy sitting behind a computer moving these lines around, it's all done with a computer program. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So apex and betpanam were a software tragedy...

its not a big deal over $10 bet

picasso · Jul 27, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by wantitall4moi:

But what is that in terms of money? Is it worth the negativity it brings? Even if it is say 20K, whay not make the compromise I suggested? And if the players take their shot at the middle, then accept that bet, then show them the door. Or don't take the bet, THEN show them the door. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Allowing the bet to stand as a goodwill gesture is certainly a reasonable consideration. But I think a problem here is that if you do it this time, then what about next time, and the next time...? And what if future errors result in bigger dollar amounts...? Not only do you put yourself in a position of having to make a decision each time, but also, if you establish a precedent, it makes it even harder to void the next time around ("but they let it stand last time...").

I'm not one to defend books. In fact, in these types of threads, I've probably been on a player's side more times than a book's. But I really think Pinnacle handled this correctly. If you just stand by the rules each time, you don't put yourself in a difficult position for future instances.

ChuckSims · Jul 27, 2004

Some people just don't understand that Pinnacle is not in business to get robbed. Error lines are NO ACTION...PERIOD!

Little_Joe · Jul 27, 2004

Hi to all,

My guess is that the real good guy is on vacation. I wish him a real good one. Good day, LJ

wantitall4moi · Jul 27, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Chuck Sims:
Some people just don't understand that Pinnacle is not in business to get robbed. Error lines are NO ACTION...PERIOD! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it is OK when they rob the players? And that isn't even the ones that go out of business. It is the ones that put up bullshit numbers that 75% of the people who bet don't know are bad.

Their explanation was OK in regard to it being the wrong team. So why post up a line on Ok St AFTER the fact? If they had made a number for them to begin with they would have not made this mistake. IMO Pin is going out of their way to outline Ok St as they are the ONLY place to offer them in this arena.

It is an attempt to show that is was a so called bad line. If they didn't posty up Ok St then it would have been a more professional approach. Since then tehy could stand by their unwritten words that their odds were erroneously posted, but were supposed to be on Ohi St.

Basically they are now trying to doubly cover their asses. By putting up a game that awhile ago people were dying to bet, and also putting up a total that is so far off the 8.5 that it is almost an "erroneous" line the other way.

Lines are lines, and it is their basis to make opeople think they are erroneous, after all if everyone thought the lines were right they wouldn't bet. They would always say "that line is right, not worth betting". Symantics for sure, but a plausible argument.

I am just surprised that it doesn't happen more often. But then again books are gambling more these days so having one way action is often welcomed. But in this case Pin couldn't really gamble as it is in a vacuum, and trying to get some action the other way would be difficult even at ridiculously high odds.

The only reason they "got away" with it is because Ok St wasn't posted anywhere esle for comparison. They are alrady eating a shitload on the teams I mentioned above, but can't claim fouls since a few books have the same teams up with similar numbers, or a half game off.

Like I say, best case scenario for guys complaing is to see this game to go from OVER -105 to OVER -190, and have Pin do something else.

wantitall4moi · Jul 27, 2004

BTW it is already at -128

stormy7777 · Jul 27, 2004

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by SportSavant:
want,

dont misunderstand me... I dont like the RULE in & of itself at all. & an honourable bookmaker like Pinnacle should stand behind the line they posted as long as it was not a GROSS error, & in this case it clearly was not...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If a 2.5 game error isn't a "gross error" what is?

Pickles · Jul 27, 2004

still not right- unless you wanna lose both ways if
it lands on 6 pinny wins both...
cfoot guy must be on vacation prob told em on phone to make it 6.5
and clerk didnt hear it right.
Dont really think you guys going over 6 are gonna get a push on exactly 6,
Looks like another whoops cancel all-gl gents

GREENHEAD · Jul 27, 2004

Up to -141.Lets all bet the over and try to bury them.LOL

ChuckSims · Jul 27, 2004

Sportsavant, a 2½ game error on a college win total is HUGE. It amazes me how people believe they should be able to rob a book if it makes an error.

wantitall4moi · Jul 27, 2004

Well it is now at -156, so it took about 2 hours for their "better" number to almost attain the overlay that the "erroneous" number attained. I wouldn't doubt that it does get to -180 or even higher.

So what did they accomplish? They are still overburdened one way, and they generated a lot of negativitiy with their actions. If this line gets to -200, they actually made WORSE decision.

Erroneous is all in the eyes of the beholder, like I have mentioned a million times before. is 8.5 any more erroneous than 6 if they are overbet the same amount?

I suppose people that have been betting the over are now robbing thebook huh?

Not to mention that line was actually +100, so to me that says at least in the beginning people had bet the over 8.5, since Pin starts most of their bets out at parrallel odds.

SENDITIN · Jul 27, 2004

I fully agree with Chuck Sims which is scary.....

REDEYE · Jul 27, 2004

I don't see how anybody can really argue against Pinnys position,when we are weeks away from the start of the season

Fezzik · Jul 27, 2004

I also think people are nuts comparing 8.5 to 6.

The 8.5 was an obvious clerical error. The 6 was just a bad number they put up.

They will have no problem eating the over 6 bets, and booking them at a loss.

However, with the true number likely around 6.5 the mispriced number "6" they put up is the price of doing business.

The 8.5 is just a stupid wrong line mistake that the average sharp 8 year old handicapper would have bet into.

Fishhead · Jul 28, 2004

OKLAHOMA STATE WOULD ONLY BE FAVORED IN 5 OF 11 GAMES IF THEY WERE TO PLAY EACH SCHEDULED TEAM TODAY......BASED ON MY RESEARCH and PROJECTED POINT SPREAD ANALYSIS......SEE SCHEDULE BELOW.

They should win all the games I have them favored in and they may/should be able to knock off one of the teams they will be only a slight underdog in(they give Oklahoma fits).

Having said that, I see this team finishing at 6-5 in more case scenarios than any other.

Sep 4 @ UCLA.....................DOG
Sep 11 Tulsa ..................FAV
Sep 18 Southern Methodist......FAV
Oct 2 Iowa State...............FAV
Oct 9 @Colorado...................DOG
Oct 16 Texas A&M...............FAV
Oct 23 @Missouri..................DOG
Oct 30 Oklahoma.................. DOG
Nov 6 @Texas......................DOG
Nov 13 Baylor..................FAV
Nov 27 @Texas Tech ...............DOG

wantitall4moi · Jul 28, 2004

Fish, not sure they will be a dog at UCLA. UCLA Sucks. Col is a disaster, and if Ok St is 4-0 heading into that game they might be a PK, depends on public sentiment, and how bad the scandal has effected Col. But looking at their scedule Col could be 1-3 gpomg into that game.

Nothing to do with the matter at hand, just an observation.