No I can't remember but there was a game where Phil went off on him about it and Kobe obliged but I get what you're saying. I believe in that same game Kobe scored like 20 something points in the first half alone or Lakers wouldn't have even been in it. I think he shot a wicked percentage too. Didn't Kobe drop like 50 points game 6 before that? Give him a break lol.
No I can't remember but there was a game where Phil went off on him about it and Kobe obliged but I get what you're saying. I believe in that same game Kobe scored like 20 something points in the first half alone or Lakers wouldn't have even been in it. I think he shot a wicked percentage too. Didn't Kobe drop like 50 points game 6 before that? Give him a break lol.
They were getting killed and he folded like a cheap suit. Personally, I don't really care about this stuff. Sometimes you're just getting your ass kicked and it's a wrap. Whether you lose by 28 or 14 is pretty immaterial. But when people cite his "killer instinct" it's just an easy retort. If LeBron quit when his team lost to the Mavs by 7pts, then I think we can say Kobe quit when he lost to the Suns by 25, or the Celtics by 40 in game 6 of the '08 finals, or the Pistons when they lost by 20+ in '04, etc etc...He's been blown off the floor to end his season more than any other pantheon level player. I'm not sure why this is but I'd guess it has something to do with the fact his teammates hate him and it is very easy for everyone to just give up once the result is basically a formality.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200605060PHO.html
So you said there is a debate between LeBron and Kobe, but you don’t want to debate that?
And you’re saying there is no debate between LeBron and MJ, yet you’re choosing to debate that instead?
Yeah, that makes sense.
And by the way, you’re “killer” instinct crap goes out the window when you realize LeBron has performed better in the clutch than Kobe over time
But those 2 games alone doesn't decide who has killer instinct and who doesn't. Lebron also fucked around and sabotaged or sulked when he wanted Isaiah Thomas gone for Cleveland and whined about needing ''more help'' It's the attitude. It's the fact that Lebron has repeatedly passed up big shots. It's the big picture.
Dude, relax. You seem to want to debate just for the sake of arguing. I don't have interest in that lol.
I'm not saying it's an argument I'd make. I'm just saying there's people out there debating it, possibly even former players and I'm just listing some of those many reasons why the debates are out there. I'm not arguing it. Also, my main point is that it's a more valid debate than Lebron vs Jordan.
You've made no ground on convincing me in anyway shape or form the Lebron is anywhere near the GOAT. I've always given Lebron credit for being a bball genius with his play making ability, for his monster, God given machine of a body, the uncanny run to the finals with that most pathetic roster in Cleveland I've ever seen (but he still got swept in the finals) and his career overall. I'm not arguing he's one of the greats but the GOAT? Nope.
There's no point though. One side won't convince the other. Watch when he retires and the dust settles though. People living in the moment right now are overreacting and probably haven't seen the other greats play, or just don't understand basketball, but mostly just living in the moment.
This is like the 5th thread about this and it's tired. Living in the moment fans and Lebron can declare him the GOAT but real fans of the game know who the real GOAT is. He's the one that is quietly confident and has people talking about him being the GOAT. Not the clown telling his fans he's the GOAT and constantly trying to convince others. Deep down even Lebron knows. He knows.
I never said LeBron is the GOAT, as I think rings carries a great amount of weight in those arguments. I said he is a better basketball player than Jordan, and I stand by that. He simply does more things well than jordan did, and elevated others around him better than Jordan did.
Debating who would win in 1-on-1 is completely irrelevant to the debate. Anyone who has played basketball / understands the game knows that it’s irrelevant and completely different from team basketball. Btw, I’m not even sure MJ would beat LeBron in that
Just because a player (Lebron) does more things overall, doesn't make them a better player than another.
Perfect example is Russell Westbrook.
Guy is likely gonna avg a triple double for 3 straight years.
That is simply amazing.
But does that make him better than some of the greats?
We all know that it doesn't.
So why does that make LeBron better than Kobe??
Perfect example is Russell Westbrook.
Guy is likely gonna avg a triple double for 3 straight years.
That is simply amazing.
But does that make him better than some of the greats?
We all know that it doesn't.
So why does that make LeBron better than Kobe??
Westbrook also has an alarmingly high usage rate, is incredibly inefficient, and has the benefit of a solid defensive team around him. He doesn't make guys better, just because he gets a lot of assists. LeBron creates offense unlike any player in this league ever has. It's beyond the stat sheet man. You watch this guy night in and night out and it's truly amazing to watch.
LeBron is better than Kobe because every advanced stat tells us he is, he's better for other reasons, but that's pretty much all I'd feel like citing. His intrinsic value as a player on the court is significantly higher than Kobe's when they were in the prime of their career (or in LeBron's case, I guess his entire career since his prime lasted 14 years)
DPM, DAPM, BPM, PER, Win shares, whatever.....I know this hurts peoples feelings, cognitive bias, what they want to be true, etc but it is what it is.
Any of the newer GM's would laugh at a suggestion to the contrary. Someone like Hbob would laugh at it. Actual people that are authorities on the game...
Not dipshit former players that spout worthless platitudes on TV because they can't get front office jobs.
DPM, DAPM, BPM, PER, Win shares, whatever.....I know this hurts peoples feelings, cognitive bias, what they want to be true, etc but it is what it is.
Any of the newer GM's would laugh at a suggestion to the contrary. Someone like Hbob would laugh at it. Actual people that are authorities on the game...
Not dipshit former players that spout worthless platitudes on TV because they can't get front office jobs.
Understand your points completely
Lebron is a great all-around player, that is clear
But he is not near the scorer Kobe is and one of the most important things he will never have that MJ and Kobe has is the killer instinct and ability to put his foot on the opponent's throat at the most crucial times.
And it's beginning to look as if he won't have the number of rings either.
Cmon Sam, let's be honest here.
LeBron is similar to Shaq in the way he gets the majority of his points.
Not even close to be the smooth & fluid assassin Kobe is.
Watching Kobe make difficult step back shots is fun, I get it. But how can you say Kobe was a fluid assassin when he would take and miss so many I’ll-advised shots, while Lebron almost always seems to make the right basketball play
I get that people loved Kobe’s attitude and fierceness , but that doesn’t make him better than Lebron lol. Lebron is easily much, much better than Kobe. It’s silly to even try and debate, as there is no rational argument for Kobe
I get that people loved Kobe’s attitude and fierceness , but that doesn’t make him better than Lebron lol. Lebron is easily much, much better than Kobe. It’s silly to even try and debate, as there is no rational argument for Kobe
If you don't understand the point, that they both use their size and get so many of their points in the paint, then not sure what else to say
