The funny thing about this is that even Kobe knows he's basically an afterthought in that conversation at this point. That was funny when during the finals last year, he passively aggressively suggested that he disagreed with the consensus opinion that LeBron's supporting cast was terrible.
Hope he didn't lose too much going over 30 wins on the Cavs win total this year if that's how he really felt.
Former players are filled with an assortment of biases and logical fallacies when it comes to evaluating their peers.
A few of them sound intelligent but most of them just default to sports radio platitudes when discussing players.
The better the player, the worse the takes from what I've seen. The roleplayers seem to have the best insight. Even then, it can be surprising how dumb some of them sound.
You would think Robert Horry would be a smart guy cause he was an intelligent player, but I've seen him be interviewed and it seemed like he can't even remember what teams he was on.
A few of them sound intelligent but most of them just default to sports radio platitudes when discussing players.
The better the player, the worse the takes from what I've seen. The roleplayers seem to have the best insight. Even then, it can be surprising how dumb some of them sound.
You would think Robert Horry would be a smart guy cause he was an intelligent player, but I've seen him be interviewed and it seemed like he can't even remember what teams he was on.
Pats I agree there are dummies in every sport but if Larry Bird or say Clyde Drexler has an opinion on the best player of all time, I'm gonna listen. If Dennis Rodman has an opinion on anything I'm going to listen but then throw away whatever he said. If JC has has an opinion on what color the sky is....
Most just spout the same worthless platitudes and logical fallacies that fans do. Sort by rings, biases related to their personal experiences, nostalgia, etc
Former great players aren't on TV to be insightful, they're on TV to entertain.
Larry Bird is beyond just a former player at this point, he has a legitimate resume as a front office personnel guy but guys like Barkley, Shaq, Isiah can't run out of dumb shit to say.
No one that voted James is over 40 - I guarantee that - they just didn't see Jordan play or they were 12-13 years old when they did - the vast majority of James's career he was known as a distributer - when the Cavs were in the last seconds against GS - Lue called TO and looked at Kyrie and told him - u do not let Lebron see the ball and u take the shot under all circumstances - and it was the right call - not knocking James - he is a top 10 player of all time and could be the 2nd best player
Doug Robinson: LeBron James' boast that he's the GOAT tells you all you need to know
By Doug Robinson
Published: January 15, 2019
SALT LAKE CITY — Lincoln might have been the Greatest Of All Time — the GOAT of the White House — but he never said it and, more importantly, probably never thought about such things.
William Shakespeare was the Greatest Of All Time among playwrights, but if he thought so, he heeded his own words: “Give thy thoughts no tongue.”
Then there’s LeBron James. He is the GOAT of basketball. Who says so? He does.
James declared in an ESPN interview that the debate ended when his Cleveland Cavaliers beat the Golden State Warriors to win the 2016 championship. “That one right there made me the greatest player of all time,” he says, “That's what I felt."
If he was even mildly embarrassed at such braggadocio, he didn’t let on. But what else do you expect from a guy who has CHOSEN1 and KING JAMES tattooed on his body, and once posted a heartwarming Instagram message to himself after scoring his 30,000th point — Wanna be one of the first to Congratulate you on this accomplishment/achievement tonight that you’ll reach!
Continuing, James explained the rationale for his latest self-coronation: "Everybody was just talking about how (the Warriors) were the greatest team of all time, like, it was the greatest team ever assembled. For us to come back the way we came back in that fashion, I was, like, 'You did something special.'"
You have to admire how skillfully he juggles pronouns, moving from “I” and “me” to a more modest “we” and back to “I.” Self-esteem is no problem for this guy. That’s how he manages to overlook his 3-6 record in the NBA Finals and the fact that two-thirds of his championships were manufactured by his fleeing Cleveland to form his own All-Star team in Miami.
Lincoln once said, “Don’t worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition.” James has worried about his recognition since the day he entered the league. Shakespeare might have been writing for “King James” when he wrote, “Give me my robe, put on my crown; I have immortal longings in me.”instein might have been the Greatest Of All Time among physicists, but if he was smart enough to theorize about quantum physics, he was smart enough not to say he was the GOAT.
James has been obsessed with the GOAT talk throughout his career, and the media has dutifully become his champion (one reporter referred to him as “The King” rather than by his last name). The GOAT conversation is fun, but futile. It’s impossible to compare generations. The NBA is a much different game than it was when Bill Russell or even Michael Jordan roamed the courts.
In any case, the real point is that unless you're Muhammad Ali clowning with the media, it’s not an athlete’s place to tell people he’s the greatest (next: James will tell voters he’s already put himself in the Hall of Fame and they need not vote on the matter).
“You don’t need to say that about yourself,” said former Celtic great Kevin McHale of James’ pronouncement. “Let other people say that for you. I mean I was kind of surprised because I’d read about it, but that’s the first time I’d actually heard him say it — ‘Made me the GOAT.’ I’m like, damn. I just didn’t like the way that sounded to me.”
McHale said James was being disrespectful to many other players — Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan. “There are just so many,” he said. “Larry (Bird) and Magic (Johnson) just led teams and turned the league around.”
"There's a certain thing about greatness that demands you have humility with greatness," NBA Hall of Famer Isiah Thomas said on NBA TV. "I have never heard Michael Jordan say he is the greatest of all time," Thomas continued. "Even though he may think that, even though Kareem (Abdul-Jabbar) may think that, you don't just come out and say that."
“Why he's saying that, I don't know," Danny Ainge said on the "Toucher and Rich” show. “Maybe he thinks that that sells. Maybe he's taking the Donald Trump approach and trying to sell himself. I don't know."
"I don't know that you can self-proclaim this," former Celtic great Paul Pierce said on ESPN. "Because when you think of all of the great players … Kareem, Magic, none of them has ever come out and said, 'I'm the GOAT.' That's up to the fans, the writers and former players."
Maybe King James would do well to remember what poet Criss Jami wrote: “The biggest challenge after success is shutting up about it.” Let's conclude with a Spanish proverb: “Tell me what you brag, about and I’ll tell you what you lack.”
By Doug Robinson
Published: January 15, 2019
SALT LAKE CITY — Lincoln might have been the Greatest Of All Time — the GOAT of the White House — but he never said it and, more importantly, probably never thought about such things.
William Shakespeare was the Greatest Of All Time among playwrights, but if he thought so, he heeded his own words: “Give thy thoughts no tongue.”
Then there’s LeBron James. He is the GOAT of basketball. Who says so? He does.
James declared in an ESPN interview that the debate ended when his Cleveland Cavaliers beat the Golden State Warriors to win the 2016 championship. “That one right there made me the greatest player of all time,” he says, “That's what I felt."
If he was even mildly embarrassed at such braggadocio, he didn’t let on. But what else do you expect from a guy who has CHOSEN1 and KING JAMES tattooed on his body, and once posted a heartwarming Instagram message to himself after scoring his 30,000th point — Wanna be one of the first to Congratulate you on this accomplishment/achievement tonight that you’ll reach!
Continuing, James explained the rationale for his latest self-coronation: "Everybody was just talking about how (the Warriors) were the greatest team of all time, like, it was the greatest team ever assembled. For us to come back the way we came back in that fashion, I was, like, 'You did something special.'"
You have to admire how skillfully he juggles pronouns, moving from “I” and “me” to a more modest “we” and back to “I.” Self-esteem is no problem for this guy. That’s how he manages to overlook his 3-6 record in the NBA Finals and the fact that two-thirds of his championships were manufactured by his fleeing Cleveland to form his own All-Star team in Miami.
Lincoln once said, “Don’t worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition.” James has worried about his recognition since the day he entered the league. Shakespeare might have been writing for “King James” when he wrote, “Give me my robe, put on my crown; I have immortal longings in me.”instein might have been the Greatest Of All Time among physicists, but if he was smart enough to theorize about quantum physics, he was smart enough not to say he was the GOAT.
James has been obsessed with the GOAT talk throughout his career, and the media has dutifully become his champion (one reporter referred to him as “The King” rather than by his last name). The GOAT conversation is fun, but futile. It’s impossible to compare generations. The NBA is a much different game than it was when Bill Russell or even Michael Jordan roamed the courts.
In any case, the real point is that unless you're Muhammad Ali clowning with the media, it’s not an athlete’s place to tell people he’s the greatest (next: James will tell voters he’s already put himself in the Hall of Fame and they need not vote on the matter).
“You don’t need to say that about yourself,” said former Celtic great Kevin McHale of James’ pronouncement. “Let other people say that for you. I mean I was kind of surprised because I’d read about it, but that’s the first time I’d actually heard him say it — ‘Made me the GOAT.’ I’m like, damn. I just didn’t like the way that sounded to me.”
McHale said James was being disrespectful to many other players — Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Michael Jordan. “There are just so many,” he said. “Larry (Bird) and Magic (Johnson) just led teams and turned the league around.”
"There's a certain thing about greatness that demands you have humility with greatness," NBA Hall of Famer Isiah Thomas said on NBA TV. "I have never heard Michael Jordan say he is the greatest of all time," Thomas continued. "Even though he may think that, even though Kareem (Abdul-Jabbar) may think that, you don't just come out and say that."
“Why he's saying that, I don't know," Danny Ainge said on the "Toucher and Rich” show. “Maybe he thinks that that sells. Maybe he's taking the Donald Trump approach and trying to sell himself. I don't know."
"I don't know that you can self-proclaim this," former Celtic great Paul Pierce said on ESPN. "Because when you think of all of the great players … Kareem, Magic, none of them has ever come out and said, 'I'm the GOAT.' That's up to the fans, the writers and former players."
Maybe King James would do well to remember what poet Criss Jami wrote: “The biggest challenge after success is shutting up about it.” Let's conclude with a Spanish proverb: “Tell me what you brag, about and I’ll tell you what you lack.”
Lol, Greatest team of all time. Anybody on this site that says they would take Curry, Thompson and Draymond over Lebron, Irving and Love are either lying to themselves/us or don't know basketball. Forget the role players, we know Goldenstate had the better team overall. But when Lebron thinks he pulled off a monumental upset when he had Irving and Love, no Durant yet in Goldenstate, Draymond suspended for a key game and I believe Curry was banged up and playing through it (don't quote me on that one I can't remember and too lazy to google)
Lebron trying to convince the world he's the GOAT and he reeks of desperation. I guess he realizes he's going to be stuck at 3 rings forever. Half the amount the REAL GOAT won so he's resorting to creating drama and talking shit. Pathetic really. Transparent also.
JORDAN=GOAT
We don't need anything. Lebron and his supporters are the ones so desperate to prove he is the GOAT because they know the burden of proof is on them. Why? Because everybody knows MJ is the GOAT and the onus is on Lebron and his clueless living in the moment supporters to prove otherwise and they can't. They're trying desperately but they can't.
You keep attempting to sound intelligent or trying to prove you are somehow more enlightened on the subject yet you fail each time.
I tried to extend an olive branch but seeing as how you're still trolling me like a petty, insecure troll, I'll call you out for YOUR idiotic post.
Players are better judges because they actually play against other NBA players and know how difficult it is to guard a player or score on them etc. They are a good judge of character.
If you have ever played a sport in your life you know it's easier to judge talent when you've actually played the sport yourself.
Players having played in the NBA don't know the game they are playing and can't judge talent objectively? Dumbest thing I've ever heard and the fact that you and justinecruise both agree on this doesn't surprise. Not the 2 sharpest knives around.
Role players have the best insight huh? Even they sound dumb at times huh? You just make shit up as you go along. Lol.
You're all over the place, Horry was an intelligent player but he wasn't smart? How do you know he isn't smart? Because you saw him in an interview? You seriously just sound judgmental, self righteous and ignorant.
The better the player the worse takes you've seen from them? Literally just making shit up as you go. (now watch him predictably go google a couple examples to ''support his case'' and post them''
Anybody that thinks NBA players aren't very good judges of talent has no credibility left. Most ignorant statement I've read today. Lol
These guys play basketball at the highest level. They got there because they are talented and they know the game. I find it very insulting towards them that you think they can't judge talent.
Logical fallacies. Give me a break. You should talk.
Biases? Sure. Of course. But I doubt they they are petty and biased. Most these NBA players are saying Jordan is better from what I can see. Even coaches. Are coaches biased too? I guess they don't know the game either right?
Man, some of the arguments in Lebron's favor reeks of desperation and some of the posts in this thread are downright comical.
Yeah. The NBA is full of a bunch of players that lie cause of bias, all of them lie when asked who's better. Also, they all don't know basketball or can't judge talent even though they've made a living of playing that sport. Give me a break.
You can spin it however you want but these guys know the game. They know talent. Some of these former players and coaches, from what I've seen and read make EXCELLENT points as to why Jordan is better, things an average fan wouldn't even conceive of. I think you should give them more credit and yourself a lot less.
Reality check.
Lol
That is an Asperger fueled diatribe about nothing.
If you want to appeal to authority, then use someone that doesn't sound like a moron and has reason, objectivity and real nuanced analysis. Whether they played or not doesn't really matter to me, but often times former players (particularly the ones that make their way into the media since again their goal is to entertain, rather than provide insightful analysis) come up short in this regard.
Obviously plenty of former players aren't stone morons, but there is also a reason former players have been getting purged from front offices for smarter, more savvy outsiders for over a decade now.
That is an Asperger fueled diatribe about nothing.
If you want to appeal to authority, then use someone that doesn't sound like a moron and has reason, objectivity and real nuanced analysis. Whether they played or not doesn't really matter to me, but often times former players (particularly the ones that make their way into the media since again their goal is to entertain, rather than provide insightful analysis) come up short in this regard.
Obviously plenty of former players aren't stone morons, but there is also a reason former players have been getting purged from front offices for smarter, more savvy outsiders for over a decade now.
Futile attempt at a save for your earlier baseless and illogical post. Just be a man and admit you inserted your foot in your mouth with that post and I called you our for bullshit. You'd save more face that way.
Guys like Pippen, Paul Pierce, even Tmac, others provide insight and comments about the game that we could never understand. They know the game, they know what it takes and the know little things about playing the game that the average fan can't possibly know.
I played bball at the college level. There's a lot of little things like body positioning and footwork, art of setting picks properly, a lot of technical stuff that the average fan can't comprehend or appreciate because these pros make it looks so routine.
You would say that many of these players have no idea what they are talking about or aren't a judge of talent and skill? Especially moreso than an average fan who can't even understand these things?
''obviously plenty of former players aren't morons'' That's weak backtracking but you should just have admitted you misspoke altogether. Now many of these players might not be articulate or well spoken, maybe they can't convey what they are talking about eloquently (though many do) but that doesn't mean they don't know the game. If they aren't articulate enough to be on a tv show maybe I can understand that argument but even that I don't agree with cause most do an ok job or are at the very least still entertaining. Charles Barkely being my favorite. But you were stating that these guys just aren't good judge of talent and skill. Way off.
Man I'm typing away and I have to get back to work. I can't explain things to people like you that just make up shit as they go. There's no point.
You make idiotic comments like I must be holding up lines cause I pay in cash. Just outright assumptions for no reason to fit your argument. That's not how debates work boy. Paying in cash or paying with debit or credit cards can both hold up the line if you don't have your card or change/cash out. Especially when the pin doesn't work the first time and you have to wait for the whole process again. Yeah..I guess that's what makes you a boss. Lol.
You repeatedly make shit up as you go to fit your little story in your head. Lol.
Up late at night? Must be drunk. (I'm a nightowl yes but out of all the times I've posted late I was probably drinking 2 or 3 times lol)
Paying in cash/change? Must be holding up the line.
Most NBA players are bias or can't judge talent objectively even though that's what they worked at for most of their lives, spent years perfecting the skill, learning from coaches at the college and pro level. Yeah they can't assess talent or skill or objectively state that Jordan is better than Lebron. Or vice versa.
You've wasted my time. You don't want to learn. You just want to troll and make shit up as you go. That's fine. It's the internet.
Another Asperger fueled diatribe.
No one said they have no knowledge whatsoever, you just projected that I said that. They have blind spots and biases. I'm not going to get into examples of that because I don't really think you meet the basic threshold for conversation on here. If you find listening to Charles Barkley rather than someone like Zach Lowe to be insightful then GL w/ that. It'll probably lead you to think "killer instinct" is something Kobe has in spades and LeBron has none of. Or that it's gonna come down to "which team plays with more urgency" or "Back in my day, we never did this!" and other brilliant gems.
I dunno wtf the 2nd half of your post even means. You obviously have some legitimate problems and basketball is an emotional subject for you.
No one said they have no knowledge whatsoever, you just projected that I said that. They have blind spots and biases. I'm not going to get into examples of that because I don't really think you meet the basic threshold for conversation on here. If you find listening to Charles Barkley rather than someone like Zach Lowe to be insightful then GL w/ that. It'll probably lead you to think "killer instinct" is something Kobe has in spades and LeBron has none of. Or that it's gonna come down to "which team plays with more urgency" or "Back in my day, we never did this!" and other brilliant gems.
I dunno wtf the 2nd half of your post even means. You obviously have some legitimate problems and basketball is an emotional subject for you.
