Looking ahead to next season

asudevil88 · Jun 15, 2009

russ1945 said:
Does anyone know where I can access the ATS records for the 2008 season? I am looking for a ready reference that I can possible download or copy. If someone can point one out to me I will pursue this coaching thing a little more in depth.

russ1945 · Jun 15, 2009

Asudevil88

Thanks man. I will see if I can come up with anything. If I do I will post it on here. Kind of busy but should have it in couple of days or so.

russ1945 · Jun 15, 2009

Asudevil88

Well I had to run the totals on each group but found very little if anything.
LY's first year coaches are shown as 2009 2nd yr coaches etc:

LY's 1st year coaches were 109-114 ATS
LY's 2nd year coaches were 122-112 ATS
LY's 3rd year coaches were 40-30 ATS
LY's 4th year coaches were 93-99

So there is not much to work with. The improvement shown in terms of just wins and losses does not work with results ATS. It is absolutely frightening to think those lines are that effective.

What I did notice was that the numbers for overs and unders are much more significant. Although these are nothing I have ever tried to isolate it is defintely worth looking into. It makes sense that some coaches try to control tempo, etc. so that might be worth looking into although I have just the one year to work with. I will try to see if those numbers relate in any way to a coaches experience and if there are indications that certain coaches are involved in overs or unders with any consistency. Hard to do with one year data base but if anything looks interesting I can use Steele's magazine if I have to. WTF, nothing else to do for 80 days or so.

Winners!! · Jun 15, 2009

russ1945 said:
Over the last 9 years Bosie St and Utah have been right at the top of the pack for playing weak competition. I have called them out on that. I recently put some numbers together and they are right at the top of the list for success ATS for the last 9 years also. Boise went 66-40-2, and Utah 62-44-1. At first I was kind of impressed and then my mind went another direction. What it amounted to was that both of these teams enjoy beating those weaker teams as badly as they can. It may not be anything overt or evil but all the evidence points to the fact that their success ATS has a lot to do with beating weaker teams by more than the spread. Whether they actually enjoy it may be a stretch but you be the judge. In 2004 B ST beat Idaho 65-7, Hawaii 69-3, La Tech 55-14, the very next year playing those same teams they beat Idaho 70-35, Hawaii 44-41, and La Tech 30-3. In 2007 they Beat Weber St 56-7, Utah St 52-0, and Idaho 58-14. So when they play a dog they do not call off the dogs. If they can they, for whatever reason, will pound you. LY they finished the season at home by beating Fresno St. 61-10.
In 2006 Wyoming beat Utah 31-5, in 2007 & 2008 Utah outscored Wyoming by a combined 90-7. So they take it personal.
It is stuff like that, and their scheduling in general, that keep them from getting rerspect for me and many others. Utah goes undefeated LY and wins a bowl but their bully ghost is bigger than the shadow the cast on the field.
If Boise beat Oregon that will mostly be the result of Oregons loss of fire power and probably an indication that Oregon will struggle in 2009. If they lose, I hope Oregon beats them 50-0 on behalf of all the little guys who have felt the Boise wrath in the past.

Probably the dumbest thing I've ever read. Congrats.

russ1945 · Jun 15, 2009

coaching - overs and unders

Nothing pops out other than one generalization. I found 14 teams who were around the 70% mark with a tendency toward overs. There were coaches from all four groups. Nothing worth mentioning. Teams around the 70 percent mark in unders (only 7 teams) none were from the coaches from any of the four groups who were with their same team. Auburn was 8-3 on unders and Tenn was 11-1 on unders but both teams have new HC. I had remarked that I had never seen an analysis on the coaching experience before. Now I see why. Nobody else came up with anything else either. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Now I know why some people fish and some people noodle.

fivestarjake · Jun 15, 2009

although everyone pretty much knows this but teams who were .500 or worse ats and were bit by injury bug AND had neg turnover margin with alot of returning starters usually fair better. just a matter of weeding those teams out who should have a better year.

Winners!! · Jun 15, 2009

Felt the need to go deeper on my post as the reason I was ridiculing you was the lack of real stats you posted. You picked out games from the last 6 years and ignored everything else. I could probably come up with the exact opposite post to say that both team shave points based on a handful of games the last 5 years. Let's just take a look at last year as an example.

Utah covered 8 games ATS. The first was against Bama and it's safe to say they weren't running up the score there. Seems like it's a decent team as well which fails your weak schedule/teams argument. Covered against BYU and I wouldn't call it running up the score, but they certainly would against their rival. Covered against SDSU and it looks like they ran it up by scoring 28 points in the 4th quarter to win by 49. The last two TD's were pick 6's and you can't fault Utah for that. The Utes threw three passes in the 4th quarter and ten times total in the 2nd half. I wouldn't call that running up the score. Covered vs. TCU and we all know the story to that game. Covered against CSU, winning by 33, but it was only a 35-16 game heading to the 4th. Utah threw exactly one pass in the 4th and it was by their backup QB on a 3rd and 14. Covered against Wyoming, winning by 33. Backup QB played almost the entire 4th once the score was 34-0. Utah throws exactly 0 passes in the 4th including running the ball with 8 minutes to go on a 3rd and 12. Utah covers against USU, winning by 48. 44-10 heading to the 4th quarter and Utah passes the ball twice in the opening drive of the 4th and never again. The Aggies simply couldn't even stop the Utes 2nd and 3rd stringers from running up the field for two late touchdowns. Should they have take a knee with 8 minutes to go? Also covered the opening game against Michigan. They should apologize for scheduling weak teams for that one I guess. Everyone knew five years ago that Michigan was going to suck.

Not going to waste my time even looking at BSU or the previous years. One season of looking at either team was enough for me to realize that you just have a personal grudge against these two legit non-bcs teams.

russ1945 · Jun 16, 2009

Conan - are you posting under another name

Russ1945, enough already with the Conan stalking. Final warning.

Thank you, wilheim

Conan · Jun 16, 2009

russ1945 said:
This has to be Conan because nobody but nobody but him exhibits the random logic that this post has in it. My post clearly talks about running up scores against "weaker teams". Alabama and BYU do not fall into that category.............period. A final score is a final score if you run it up in the first half then who cares if the scrubs take it from there. A final score is a final score. Then you bring up Michigan, again not a weaker team that was in fact favored over Utah. Get your shit together Conan, your post says Mexico but only your mind has gone South. My post mainly was directed at Boise St. Utah has not had the fire power lately to pull off many routs. Although they went 13-0 LY they only beat Weber State 37-21 and AF 30-23. When they had the ability to run it up, 2004 for instance, they did where they scored 46 or more pts in 6 games. This post is so transparently Conan it is almost laughable. Pathetic attempt at best.

That wasn't me idiot. This is your last warning. Cut the flames and crap about me and others or you will answer for it.

BigdaddyQH · Jun 16, 2009

Russ, you are way off on this one. Utah has already been talked about. Now let's look at Boise. They covered 7-8 games last year, depending on what pooints you got. They upset Oregon. Enough said. 38-3 over La.Tech. at -22 1/2 24-7 over So. Miss as 11 point favorites. 33-16 over San Jose at -7. 49-0 at New Mexico State at -22. 49-14 over Utah State. My line isted the final odds at -35, a push. 41-34 over Nevada at -6 1/2. The only rout I see is a 61-10 thrashing of Fresno State at -21, the last game of the season when Boise was trying to make their BCS Bowl claim. Other than Fresno State, show me where Boise ran up the score.

It sounds to me like this is nothing but sour grapes from an Oklahoma fan. OU lost to Boise State in a BCS Bowl game, and has lost 5 straight BCS games. Okie State has not even been in a BCS Bowl game, and got their tails handed to them by Oregon last year, the same team that lost at home to Boise State. It's time to close the books on this. Boise State beats OU in a BCS Bowl. Utah is 2-0 in BCS Bowls in the past 5 years while OU is 0-4 during that time and Okie State has not even played in a BCS Bowl. Case closed.

GoSooners · Jun 16, 2009

BigdaddyQH said:
Russ, you are way off on this one. Utah has already been talked about. Now let's look at Boise. They covered 7-8 games last year, depending on what pooints you got. They upset Oregon. Enough said. 38-3 over La.Tech. at -22 1/2 24-7 over So. Miss as 11 point favorites. 33-16 over San Jose at -7. 49-0 at New Mexico State at -22. 49-14 over Utah State. My line isted the final odds at -35, a push. 41-34 over Nevada at -6 1/2. The only rout I see is a 61-10 thrashing of Fresno State at -21, the last game of the season when Boise was trying to make their BCS Bowl claim. Other than Fresno State, show me where Boise ran up the score.

It sounds to me like this is nothing but sour grapes from an Oklahoma fan. OU lost to Boise State in a BCS Bowl game, and has lost 5 straight BCS games. Okie State has not even been in a BCS Bowl game, and got their tails handed to them by Oregon last year, the same team that lost at home to Boise State. It's time to close the books on this. Boise State beats OU in a BCS Bowl. Utah is 2-0 in BCS Bowls in the past 5 years while OU is 0-4 during that time and Okie State has not even played in a BCS Bowl. Case closed.

Amen...No Okie should be talking about other teams running up the score when OU scored over 60 points in their last 4 games last season just to set a record. All of this run up the score talk is ridiculous. I've always looked at it as if you don't have the team to compete, it's your own damned fault. Plus these run up the score games have been more positive for my pocket book than negative. Utah and Boise are two teams that I don't make a habit of betting against just for this reason.

russ1945 · Jun 16, 2009

Bqh - gs

GoSooners said:
Amen...No Okie should be talking about other teams running up the score when OU scored over 60 points in their last 4 games last season just to set a record. All of this run up the score talk is ridiculous. I've always looked at it as if you don't have the team to compete, it's your own damned fault. Plus these run up the score games have been more positive for my pocket book than negative. Utah and Boise are two teams that I don't make a habit of betting against just for this reason.

You are right about OU running up the scores LY. But I think that GS will agree that Oklahoma fans are not sour grapes about the loss to Boise ST or OU's lack of success in BCS bowls. I have never heard a derogatory word about the other teams accomplishments in doing so either. Oklahoma and Nebraska fans (children of the corn) pretty much admit when they lose they lose. I was there when TCU beat OU and there was nobody running down TCU for their accomplishment. Same holds true for the Boise St. game. Many people thought OU was not properly prepared but that is not Boise St or West Virginia's fault and should not diminish their acomplishment in any way. I was probably wrong to include Utah in that posting but what I said about Boise was based on numbers but not based on any sour grapes. In fact I ride Boise from time to time as they do have a tendency (like OU did LY) to run it up. Very good if you are on the right side like GS points out.
I just would think that teams like Boise St would make a concerted effort to play tougher OOC games to legitimize their record since their conference foes have not been on their level. I mean even Nevada scheduled Notre Dame.

wilheim · Jun 16, 2009

For the record

Poster Winners!! has just a single unique IP attached to his user name. He is not a ghost of any other posters registered in our data base of over 56,000 names. The IP is not a proxy but a unique IP to a residence.

I spent 20 minutes running checks, after four years as Head Mod here I am fairly astute at identifying ghosts and Winners!! is not one.

He is definitely not Conan or anyone else but himself.

Thank you, wilheim

russ1945 · Jun 16, 2009

Wilhelm

wilheim said:
Poster Winners!! has just a single unique IP attached to his user name. He is not a ghost of any other posters registered in our data base of over 56,000 names. The IP is not a proxy but a unique IP to a residence.

I spent 20 minutes running checks, after four years as Head Mod here I am fairly astute at identifying ghosts and Winners!! is not one.

He is definitely not Conan or anyone else but himself.

Thank you, wilheim

Sorry for the imposition I may have caused. Thanks for the confirmation.

russ1945 · Jun 16, 2009

rivals.com - Preseason top 120

rivals.com is in the process of posting breakdowns on every NCAA Division 1
team. They are down to #91 and they will unveil their #1 team on August 13.
They are providing a concise easy to follow breakdown and includes sub titltes "keep an eye on", "star power", "strengths", "weaknesses" and "the buzz". they also show projected starting lineups. You might want to check them out as they do their countdown. Since Blue Ribbon is not coming out this year (which I know some people prefer to Steele's) this may provide some perspective. They are nicely done.

Conan · Jun 16, 2009

Just for the record, I NEVER ghost or wear a beard. The fact that there are others here that share my opinions is no reason to suspect anything. Not to belabor the point because everyone understands that.

russ1945 · Jun 16, 2009

2008 - Week one final scores

I was going over the scores for week on 2008 on the NCAA Statistical online site. I thought I would post them just for the heck of it.

lease Select a Game From The List:<TABLE width="80%"><TBODY><TR><TH>Team</TH><TH>Opponent</TH><TH>Game Date</TH><TH>Score</TH></TR><TR><TD>Air Force</TD><TD>Southern Utah</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>41-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Akron</TD><TD>Wisconsin</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>17-38</TD></TR><TR><TD>Alabama</TD><TD>Clemson</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>34-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Arizona</TD><TD>Idaho</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>70-0</TD></TR><TR><TD>Arizona St.</TD><TD>Northern Ariz.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>30-13</TD></TR><TR><TD>Arkansas</TD><TD>Western Ill.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>28-24</TD></TR><TR><TD>Arkansas St.</TD><TD>Texas A&M</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>18-14</TD></TR><TR><TD>Army</TD><TD>Temple</TD><TD>08/29/08</TD><TD>7-35</TD></TR><TR><TD>Auburn</TD><TD>La.-Monroe</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>34-0</TD></TR><TR><TD>Ball St.</TD><TD>Northeastern</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>48-14</TD></TR><TR><TD>Baylor</TD><TD>Wake Forest</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>13-41</TD></TR><TR><TD>Boise St.</TD><TD>Idaho St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>49-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Boston College</TD><TD>Kent St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>21-0</TD></TR><TR><TD>Bowling Green</TD><TD>Pittsburgh</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>27-17</TD></TR><TR><TD>Buffalo</TD><TD>UTEP</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>42-17</TD></TR><TR><TD>BYU</TD><TD>UNI</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>41-17</TD></TR><TR><TD>California</TD><TD>Michigan St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>38-31</TD></TR><TR><TD>Central Mich.</TD><TD>Eastern Ill.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>31-12</TD></TR><TR><TD>Cincinnati</TD><TD>Eastern Ky.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>40-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Clemson</TD><TD>Alabama</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>10-34</TD></TR><TR><TD>Connecticut</TD><TD>Hofstra</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>35-3</TD></TR><TR><TD>Duke</TD><TD>James Madison</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>31-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>East Carolina</TD><TD>Virginia Tech</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>27-22</TD></TR><TR><TD>Eastern Mich.</TD><TD>Indiana St.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>52-0</TD></TR><TR><TD>Fla. Atlantic</TD><TD>Texas</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>10-52</TD></TR><TR><TD>Florida</TD><TD>Hawaii</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>56-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Florida Int'l</TD><TD>Kansas</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>10-40</TD></TR><TR><TD>Georgia</TD><TD>Ga. Southern</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>45-21</TD></TR><TR><TD>Georgia Tech</TD><TD>Jacksonville St.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>41-14</TD></TR><TR><TD>Hawaii</TD><TD>Florida</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>10-56</TD></TR><TR><TD>Houston</TD><TD>Southern U.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>55-3</TD></TR><TR><TD>Idaho</TD><TD>Arizona</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>0-70</TD></TR><TR><TD>Illinois</TD><TD>Missouri</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>42-52</TD></TR><TR><TD>Indiana</TD><TD>Western Ky.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>31-13</TD></TR><TR><TD>Iowa</TD><TD>Maine</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>46-3</TD></TR><TR><TD>Iowa St.</TD><TD>South Dakota St.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>44-17</TD></TR><TR><TD>Kansas</TD><TD>Florida Int'l</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>40-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Kansas St.</TD><TD>North Texas</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>45-6</TD></TR><TR><TD>Kent St.</TD><TD>Boston College</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>0-21</TD></TR><TR><TD>La.-Lafayette</TD><TD>Southern Miss.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>21-51</TD></TR><TR><TD>La.-Monroe</TD><TD>Auburn</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>0-34</TD></TR><TR><TD>Louisiana Tech</TD><TD>Mississippi St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>22-14</TD></TR><TR><TD>LSU</TD><TD>Appalachian St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>41-13</TD></TR><TR><TD>Marshall</TD><TD>Illinois St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>35-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Maryland</TD><TD>Delaware</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>14-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Memphis</TD><TD>Mississippi</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>24-41</TD></TR><TR><TD>Miami (Fla.)</TD><TD>Charleston So.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>52-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Miami (Ohio)</TD><TD>Vanderbilt</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>13-34</TD></TR><TR><TD>Michigan</TD><TD>Utah</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>23-25</TD></TR><TR><TD>Michigan St.</TD><TD>California</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>31-38</TD></TR><TR><TD>Middle Tenn. St.</TD><TD>Troy</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>17-31</TD></TR><TR><TD>Minnesota</TD><TD>Northern Ill.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>31-27</TD></TR><TR><TD>Mississippi</TD><TD>Memphis</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>41-24</TD></TR><TR><TD>Mississippi St.</TD><TD>Louisiana Tech</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>14-22</TD></TR><TR><TD>Missouri</TD><TD>Illinois</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>52-42</TD></TR><TR><TD>Navy</TD><TD>Towson</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>41-13</TD></TR><TR><TD>Nebraska</TD><TD>Western Mich.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>47-24</TD></TR><TR><TD>Nevada</TD><TD>Grambling</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>49-13</TD></TR><TR><TD>New Mexico</TD><TD>TCU</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>3-26</TD></TR><TR><TD>North Carolina</TD><TD>McNeese St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>35-27</TD></TR><TR><TD>North Carolina St.</TD><TD>South Carolina</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>0-34</TD></TR><TR><TD>North Texas</TD><TD>Kansas St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>6-45</TD></TR><TR><TD>Northern Ill.</TD><TD>Minnesota</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>27-31</TD></TR><TR><TD>Northwestern</TD><TD>Syracuse</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>30-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Ohio</TD><TD>Wyoming</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>20-21</TD></TR><TR><TD>Ohio St.</TD><TD>Youngstown St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>43-0</TD></TR><TR><TD>Oklahoma</TD><TD>Chattanooga</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>57-2</TD></TR><TR><TD>Oklahoma St.</TD><TD>Washington St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>39-13</TD></TR><TR><TD>Oregon</TD><TD>Washington</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>44-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Oregon St.</TD><TD>Stanford</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>28-36</TD></TR><TR><TD>Penn St.</TD><TD>Coastal Caro.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>66-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Pittsburgh</TD><TD>Bowling Green</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>17-27</TD></TR><TR><TD>Rice</TD><TD>SMU</TD><TD>08/29/08</TD><TD>56-27</TD></TR><TR><TD>San Diego St.</TD><TD>Cal Poly</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>27-29</TD></TR><TR><TD>San Jose St.</TD><TD>UC Davis</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>13-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>SMU</TD><TD>Rice</TD><TD>08/29/08</TD><TD>27-56</TD></TR><TR><TD>South Carolina</TD><TD>North Carolina St.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>34-0</TD></TR><TR><TD>South Fla.</TD><TD>Tenn.-Martin</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>56-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Southern California</TD><TD>Virginia</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>52-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Southern Miss.</TD><TD>La.-Lafayette</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>51-21</TD></TR><TR><TD>Stanford</TD><TD>Oregon St.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>36-28</TD></TR><TR><TD>Syracuse</TD><TD>Northwestern</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>10-30</TD></TR><TR><TD>TCU</TD><TD>New Mexico</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>26-3</TD></TR><TR><TD>Temple</TD><TD>Army</TD><TD>08/29/08</TD><TD>35-7</TD></TR><TR><TD>Texas</TD><TD>Fla. Atlantic</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>52-10</TD></TR><TR><TD>Texas A&M</TD><TD>Arkansas St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>14-18</TD></TR><TR><TD>Texas Tech</TD><TD>Eastern Wash.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>49-24</TD></TR><TR><TD>Troy</TD><TD>Middle Tenn. St.</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>31-17</TD></TR><TR><TD>Tulsa</TD><TD>UAB</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>45-22</TD></TR><TR><TD>UAB</TD><TD>Tulsa</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>22-45</TD></TR><TR><TD>UCF</TD><TD>South Carolina St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>17-0</TD></TR><TR><TD>UNLV</TD><TD>Utah St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>27-17</TD></TR><TR><TD>Utah</TD><TD>Michigan</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>25-23</TD></TR><TR><TD>Utah St.</TD><TD>UNLV</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>17-27</TD></TR><TR><TD>UTEP</TD><TD>Buffalo</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>17-42</TD></TR><TR><TD>Vanderbilt</TD><TD>Miami (Ohio)</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>34-13</TD></TR><TR><TD>Virginia</TD><TD>Southern California</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>7-52</TD></TR><TR><TD>Virginia Tech</TD><TD>East Carolina</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>22-27</TD></TR><TR><TD>Wake Forest</TD><TD>Baylor</TD><TD>08/28/08</TD><TD>41-13</TD></TR><TR><TD>Washington</TD><TD>Oregon</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>10-44</TD></TR><TR><TD>Washington St.</TD><TD>Oklahoma St.</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>13-39</TD></TR><TR><TD>West Virginia</TD><TD>Villanova</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>48-21</TD></TR><TR><TD>Western Ky.</TD><TD>Indiana</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>13-31</TD></TR><TR><TD>Western Mich.</TD><TD>Nebraska</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>24-47</TD></TR><TR><TD>Wisconsin</TD><TD>Akron</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>38-17</TD></TR><TR><TD>Wyoming</TD><TD>Ohio</TD><TD>08/30/08</TD><TD>21-20</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

russ1945 · Jun 16, 2009

Avg attendance

You know you are bored when you start flipping through Steele's magazine for the 50th time and this catches your attention. I started noticing that he lists the avg home attendance for all of the 120 teams. Without hesitation I whip out my trusty calculator and put in 45 teams, mostly from the MWC, CUSA, WAC, MAC, and Sun Belt conferences, and throw in Army and here is what I found. Those 45 teams had an average home game attendance of 20,376. That is pretty remarkable. It almost justifies playing these guys in OOC games. How can they possibly compete.

Now I did not include BYU (64,102) or Utah (45,542) which rank 27th and 58th in avg attendance nationally. But check this out, I did not include Boise St (32,275) or TCU (30,389) with rank 70th & 75th nationally. This really gives me a new found respect for Boise St. I already had respect for TCU after they beat my Sooners a while back. These two teams are actually national contenders. It really makes you wonder about what happened at schools like Texas A & M (82,193 - 14th), Washington (63,640 - 29th, Wisconsin (81,088 - 15th), and Michigan (108,571 - 1st).

And how about Cincannati (31,965 - 71st) and Tulsa (24,368 - 84th) having great years last year.

I really did not have anywhere to go with this posting except to acknowledge that most of these kids play because they love the game, not for the fame or fortune that can come from playing at a big name school. It says something about the coaches at these schools also.
One third of the NCAA Division 1 teams play in front of these smaller crowds because they all love the game. It is the stuff this country is made of and sometimes it just gets lost in the shuffle. They show up every week win, lose, or draw just like the big boys and without the limelight. You gotta love it.

russ1945 · Jun 17, 2009

just out

Offseason has been full of intriguing stories

By Olin Buchanan, Rivals.com College Football Senior Writer 4 hours, 56 minutes ago

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Summer is a time for looking ahead.
Web sites doing countdowns and annual magazines appearing on newsstands show the anticipation for the upcoming season. But according to the calendar, summer doesn’t officially begin for a few more days. Therefore, before completely looking ahead, we’ll take one last look back on an offseason that offered entertainment, drama and controversy.
Tennessee coach Lane Kiffin riled South Carolin a’s Steve Spurrier, Florida’s Urban Meyer and Alabama’s Nick Saban to such a degree that SEC commissioner Mike Slive told league coaches to quiet down and play nice.
But Congress wasn’t playing nice when BCS representatives were called to Washington to defend the bowl system. Perhaps Texas Rep. Joe Barton was just grandstanding for votes.
Speaking of votes, the American Football Coaches Association announced that starting in 2010, their poll, which helps select the national championship game contestants, would be via secret ballot. In addition, the Big 12 voted not to change its controversial tiebreaking procedure and President Barack Obama’s sense of humor may cost him some votes in the 2012 election.

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Penn State coach Joe Paterno would vote to add another team to the Big Ten, though his idea seemed to get a thumbs down from the conference commissioner.
A star player was stricken with a disease that threatens his life. Another star player was kicked off his team. One failed a drug test. One was left out in the cold to avoid failing a test.
Here’s a look at 25 of the top stories from the offseason.
25. MARSHALL PLAYERS ARRESTED: Two Marshall standouts – running back Darius Marshall and cornerback DeQuan Bembry – were suspended after being arrested on drug charges in western West Virginia. They were originally charged with felony drug trafficking. The charges eventually were reduced to misdemeanor possession.
24. OUT IN THE COLD: Texas Tech coach Mike Leach often takes an unusual approach to dealing with different issues. He demonstrated that again in March when he forced wide receiver Edward Britton to study … at midfield of Jones Stadium in 30 degree weather with snow flurries. “Ed didn’t like showing up and studying at places I felt like he needed to and like the academic people asked him to, so he can study out there on the 50-yard line,” Leach said. Britton got the message and was back at practice a few days later.
23. RECRUIT SCHOLARSHIP: North Carolina pulled its scholarship offer to defensive back recruit Angelo Hadley after he ran into trouble with the law. On April 5, Hadley was arrested on felony lewd and lascivious battery for having sex in February with a 14-year-old girl while his older brothers stole jewelry, cash and a shotgun totaling more than $17,000 from her residence in the Tampa, Fla., area. Later in the month, he was charged with three third-degree felonies for burglary and firearms possession emanating from the same case.
22. ON THE LINE: Heading into spring practice, Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops questioned his offensive linemen’s attitude and work ethic in the offseason. “Those guys at this point – whether their work ethic or attitude – those are the things that need to improve,” he said. “They haven’t had the winter everybody else has had. Right now, they are the weak link of our team.” Tackle Trent Williams is the only returning starter. Stoops had a better outlook after spring drills.
21. RUN, JIM, RUN: To promote USF’s spring game, coach Jim Leavitt “sprinted” 40 yards in 5.72 seconds before an April practice. Two days later, students ran 40-yard dashes in a combine before the spring game. Anyone who beat 5.72 seconds received T-shirts bearing the message, “I’m Faster Than Leavitt.”
20. GATOR OR NOT: Florida coach Urban Meyer said that critics of his Gators – even former Gators – aren’t really Gators. Meyer reportedly was irked at Gainesville talk-radio host Shane Matthews, a former Florida quarterback who criticized the Gators’ offensive strategy in a loss to Ole Miss last season. “If you want to be critical of a player on our team or a coach on our team, you can buy a ticket for seat 37F. You’re not welcome back in the football office. You’re either a Gator or you’re not a Gator,” Meyer said at a Gator Club appearance in May. Hmmm – this coming from a coach who last year said Notre Dame was his dream job. Word is Meyer and Matthews talked it over, and all is well in Gainesville.
19. LEWIS DISMISSED: Quarterback-turned-receiver Kellen Lewis was dismissed at Indiana for violating unspecified team rules. Lewis had set 16 school records as a quarterback, but he was moved to wide receiver during spring practice.
18. JARMON INELIGIBLE: Kentucky’s defense suffered a major setback when defensive end Jeremy Jarmon was ruled ineligible by the NCAA after a failed drug test. Jarmon said he had taken an undisclosed supplement for 15 days before learning it was banned. Jarmon had 4.5 sacks and 10 tackles for loss last season.
17. SPRING FLING: Ohio State set a spring-game attendance record with 95,722 fans, who paid $5 per ticket to get in. Some of the proceeds went to charity. Alabama previously had the record for highest spring-game attendance with 92,138 in 2007.
16. OBAMA JABS IRISH: President Barack Obama was heckled for his views on abortion when he delivered the commencement speech at Notre Dame in May. A few days later, he did some heckling of his own at an Indianapolis fundraiser. Obama said his controversial appearance at Notre Dame paled in comparison to what to do about the Irish football team. “That’s an issue we may not resolve within my four years,” Obama said. Notre Dame is 10-15 in the past two seasons – the most losses the Irish have endured over a two-year period in their history.
15. KELLY SUCCEEDS BELLOTTI: In mid-March, Chip Kelly became coach at Oregon after Mike Bellotti, the most successful football coach in school history, stepped down and took over as athletic director. In two seasons with Kelly as offensive coordinator, the Ducks led the Pac-10 in scoring and total offense and set school records in both categories. Because of that performance, Kelly was named Oregon’s “coach-in-waiting” in December 2008. He didn’t have to wait long.
14. MARESH RETURNS: About nine months after undergoing open-heart surgery and with a benign mass in his left calf, Minnesota freshman linebacker Sam Maresh suited up for spring practice.
13. CORP EMERGES: After a solid spring showing in which he demonstrated a firm grasp of the offense and rarely was intercepted, sophomore Aaron Corp was named USC’s starting quarterback. Three of USC’s past four quarterbacks have become first-round draft picks and two won the Heisman Trophy. Although coach Pete Carroll indicated the competition will continue in August, Corp will go to camp as the No. 1 quarterback. Perhaps an even greater surprise was that Mitch Mustain, the once-heralded prospect who transferred from Arkansas, now is third on the depth chart.
12. IN THE STRETCH: Determined to re-establish a recruiting presence in Mobile, Ala., seven Auburn assistants piled into a white stretch limousine decorated with Auburn decals and flags to visit several area high schools. “One of our goals is to fight and get Mobile back. Mobile is paramount to Auburn football,” coach Gene Chizik said.
11. VERBAL SPARRING: Texas Tech’s Leach expressed dismay that his quarterback, Graham Harrell, who led the nation in passing, wasn’t selected in the NFL draft but Texas A&M’s Stephen McGee was. “I’m happy for Stephen McGee,” Leach was quoted as saying. “The Dallas Cowboys like him more than his coaches at A&M did.” McGee was injured much of last season and lost his starting job to Jerrod Johnson. Leach’s quote led to an exchange through the media with Texas A&M coach Mike Sherman, who voiced his displeasure with Leach’s comments. The Aggies hope to make Leach pay for his words on Oct. 24, when they play the Red Raiders in Lubbock. Well, maybe not. A&M hasn’t won in Lubbock since 1993.
10. KANSAS STATE SUES: Kansas State filed a lawsuit seeking to invalidate a “secret agreement” that would provide former coach Ron Prince $3.2 million in deferred payment. The suit claimed that former K-State athletic director Robert Krause made the deal without the knowledge of president Jon Wefald. The deal reportedly would pay Prince $800,000 in 2015 and ’16 and $1.6 million in 2020. Prince was fired after a second consecutive losing season and was replaced by former coach Bill Snyder, who came out of a three-year retirement.
9. PAULUS TOUR: After completing his basketball career, former Duke point guard Greg Paulus was courted by several schools in need of a quarterback. Paulus was a star quarterback and received scholarship offers from Miami and Notre Dame when he came out of Syracuse (N.Y.) Christian Brothers Academy four years ago. He’s eligible to immediately play football because he did not redshirt at Duke and completed his degree in four years. Paulus said he was contacted by about two dozen schools. He considered Michigan and Nebraska, among others, before opting for Syracuse. Orange coach Doug Marrone said Paulus will be given a fair chance to win the starting job.
8. NO CHANGE IN BIG 12: Coaches in the Big 12 voted down a proposal to change a controversial procedure used to break a three-team tie in divisional standings. Last season, Texas, Oklahoma and Texas Tech finished in a three-way tie in the South Division. Oklahoma, which had lost to Texas, advanced to the conference championship game because it ranked one spot higher than Texas in the BCS standings. A change was proposed in which the lowest-rated team in the BCS standings would be eliminated and the tie then would be broken by head-to-head outcome of the remaining teams, but the conference opted to stand pat.
7. SECRET BALLOTS: The American Football Coaches Association announced that in 2010, the votes in the USA Today coaches’ poll, which helps determine the teams in the national championship game, will be kept secret. In an effort to ensure voter integrity, the ballots had been made public the past three years. What’s to keep coaches from voting for their cronies or against their enemies? Just the honor system. That always works in college football, doesn’t it?
6. ALABAMA VACATES WINS: Alabama actually was glad when the NCAA ruled it must vacate wins from 2005-07 as punishment for athletes in several sports, including football, for improperly obtaining textbooks for other students. Alabama was placed on three years’ probation but did not lose any scholarships.
5. FLORIDA STATE’S WOES: The Seminoles had a variety of offseason issues. Wide receiver Preston Parker was dismissed from the team after an arrest for DUI. The NCAA denied wide receiver Corey Surrency’s appeal for an extra year of eligibility. The NCAA also ruled the Seminoles would vacate 14 victories as punishment for a scandal in which two dozen football players were among 61 athletes involved in cheating on tests for an online music-history course. Those vacated wins effectively would knock coach Bobby Bowden out of the race with Penn State coach Joe Paterno for the most career wins. Bowden has 382 victories, one fewer than Paterno. Florida State has appealed.
4. PATERNO CALLS FOR EXPANSION: Paterno told a group of reporters in New York that the Big Ten should add a 12th member and stage a football championship game. Paterno said his suggestions for expansion were typically met with snickers. Paterno said the Big Ten should seek a northeastern team, such as Syracuse, Rutgers or Pittsburgh. Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany did not embrace Paterno’s suggestion.
3. HERZLICH’S ILLNESS: Boston College All-America linebacker Mark Herzlich, the ACC’s defensive player of the year last season, was diagnosed in May with Ewing’s sarcoma, a rare form of cancer often found in bone or soft tissue. Herzlich has said he was told he has a 70 percent chance of full recovery, but his football career likely is over.
2. AN ACT OF CONGRESS: U.S. Rep. Joe Barton (R-Texas) introduced legislation that would prevent the NCAA from using the term “national championship game” unless it’s in the outcome of a playoff. Barton joked that the “C” should be removed from BCS and compared college football’s postseason system to communism. ACC commissioner John Swofford, the coordinator of the BCS, was called to a Congressional hearing to defend the system. In addition, Alamo Bowl chief Derrick Fox told Congress bowl games raise “tens of millions of dollars” for charities. But a report by Yahoo! Sports showed that all the bowls combined raised just $3.2 million for local charities last year.
1. KIFFIN’S COMMENTS: Not long after Lane Kiffin was named Phillip Fulmer’s successor at Tennessee, he rankled South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier, Alabama’s Nick Saban, Florida’s Urban Meyer and officials at Pahokee (Fla.) High School, who he suggested might interfere in Tennessee’s recruitment of Nu’Keese Richardson. The most embarrassing incident was Kiffin’s accusation that Meyer broke NCAA rules in recruiting Richardson. Meyer did not break any rules – but Tennessee did break secondary rules when a recruit was mentioned by name on Kiffin’s Twitter and Facebook accounts. Furthermore, another violation was committed when Kiffin was shown talking with a prospect on ESPN’s “Outside the Lines.” On the plus side, Kiffin assembled a top-10 recruiting class that included Bryce Brown, the nation’s No. 1 prospect.

The edge
This week, it’s California vs. Clemson.
Each week, we’ll match two teams to determine which has the edge in various categories. Got a matchup you want to see? Send it to olin@rivals.com and we’ll work on it.

1. Head to head
California prevailed 37-13 in the 1992 Citrus Bowl, the only meeting between the teams.
EDGE: California.
2. First-round draft choices
California: 23 (most recently C Alex Mack by Cleveland in 2009).
Clemson: 22 (most recently DE Gaines Adams by Tampa Bay in 2007).
EDGE: California.
3. Famous hills
Clemson: In what has been described as the most exciting 25 seconds in college football, Clemson players take the field by running down “The Hill” on the east side of Memorial Stadium.
California: Fans too frugal to buy a ticket can watch the game from “Tightwad Hill,” which overlooks Memorial Stadium from the east.
EDGE: Clemson.
4. Infamous returns in bowl games
California: In the 1929 Rose Bowl, Roy Riegels scooped up a Georgia Tech fumble and ran 69 yards the wrong way and was tackled on Cal’s 1-yard line. The gaffe led to a safety, an 8-7 Georgia Tech victory and the dubious nickname “Wrong-Way” Riegels.
Clemson: Nose tackle Charlie Bauman’s interception of an Art Schlichter pass clinched a 17-15 win for Clemson in the 1978 Gator Bowl, and it also resulted in the end of Ohio State coach Woody Hayes’ career. Hayes punched Bauman on the sideline after the play. The next day, Hayes was fired.
Edge: Clemson. Bauman’s play sealed a victory. Riegels’ led to a loss.
5. Pre-game hangout
California: The Bear’s Lair, an on-campus brew pub with 40 beers on tap, nine big-screen TVs, good food and an outdoor patio. Get there early.
Clemson: The Esso Club, a 1920s gas station-turned-bar, is located just across campus on the Old Greenville Highway. The bar is topped with cedar from the original football stadium. Cold beer. Good burgers. Get there early.
Edge: Clemson. Drinking beer at the Esso Club is almost as much a Clemson tradition as Howard’s Rock.
6. Iconic former coach
Clemson: Frank Howard. The Tigers were 165-118-12 in 30 seasons under Howard from 1940-69.
California: Andy Smith. The Bears were 74-16-7 in 10 seasons under Smith from 1916-25.
Edge: Clemson. Nobody ever has heard of Smith’s Rock.
7. Businessmen alums
Clemson: Robert H. Brooks. President of Hooters of America, Inc.
California: Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple Computers.
Edge: California. As much as I enjoy Hooters, Apple prevails. Besides, Brooks never has been on “Dancing with the Stars.”
8. Sitcom actors
Clemson: James Michael Taylor, who played Gunther, a coffee-shop worker with a crush on Jennifer Anniston in “Friends.”
California: Jerry Mathers, who played Beaver Cleaver in “Leave it to Beaver.”
Edge: California. Mathers played the title role. Taylor was a glorified extra.
9. Famous Olympians
California: Natalie Coughlin won five swimming medals, including two golds, at the 2004 Athens Games. In the 2008 Games in Beijing, she became the first American female athlete in modern Olympic history to win six medals in one Olympics.
Clemson: Shawn Crawford won gold in the 200-meter dash in the ’04 games and won silver medals in the ’04 4x100-meter relay and the ’08 200-meter dash.
Edge: California. That’s 11 medals to three.
10. Football national championships
California: The NCAA recognizes Cal national championships in 1920, ’21 and ’22.
Clemson: The NCAA recognizes Clemson’s 1981 national championship.
Edge: Clemson. The Tigers were consensus national champions in ’81, while Cal’s were “retro” championships. The edge goes to championships that were recognized the year in which they were won.

Olin Buchanan is the senior college football writer for Rivals.com. He can be reached at olin@rivals.com.
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russ1945 · Jun 17, 2009

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