Is there any legit proof that American cars are inferior?

[fletchisrhsm]

and the parts and labor were cheap

ill say it again more self made millionaires drive american cars then otherwise

do you think they have business sense?

WTF are you talking about? Complete bullshit and utter nonsense. Can you prove what you say and even so, does that mean if we drive American cars we could become millionaires faster? hno:

Compare the costs of these cars and its a laugher. You get ate alive by labor not parts on repairs smart guy.

 

[barman]

I happen to know a modest share of SelfMade Millionaires and at this point, they don't drive anything.

They are driven.

 

[roadreeler57]

not too shocking - I figure you're the kind of guy who whips out a calculator to make sure and never overtip the waitress more than her proper 15%.

I tip whatever I think she is worth...If she hustles & keeps that coffee filled up she gets way more than 15%....If she does'nt she gets no tip at all.

 

[barman]

yep...as I figured

Pinch those pennies hard and you'll always have a pocketful of pennies

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

ill say it again more self made millionaires drive american cars then otherwise

Link please.

 

[roadreeler57]

Link please.

Jay Leno's Garage: I'd Rather Have A Ford

The reborn Ford GT simply stirs men's souls.

BY JAY LENO
Photos by John Lamm
Published in the July 2004 issue.


Not to take anything away from the U.S. Olympic hockey team's 1980 "miracle" win over the Russians or Joe Namath's Jets beating the Baltimore Colts in Super Bowl III in 1969, but the greatest upset in sports in my opinion was Ford winning the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1966. The idea of Ford beating Ferrari was simply inconceivable.
It was also a terrific example of "race on Sunday, sell on Monday." I remember kids with beat-up, 6-cylinder Falcons beaming with pride because they were now driving a "real race car."
But when I heard Ford was going to bring back the GT40, my initial reaction was, "Uh, okay." I remembered the Mustang II, and I was afraid that this was going to be just another example of bad badge engineering. But my opinion changed when I saw the new Ford GT. To me, the Ford GT has the cleanest, sexiest, most attractive lines of any GT-type race car. It has the elements of a race car and the elements of a street car, all built into it. A lot of these new cars--even supercars like the Ferrari Enzo--don't emotionally move you the way a Ford GT's shape does. Of course, some guys don't agree. They point out that the new Ford GT is 13 percent bigger than the old car. Hey, if I were only 13 percent bigger than I was in 1966, I'd be thrilled.
The new car has to safely withstand a crash. It has to have airbags. It needs to look like the old car but must have all the technology to be a modern car. I don't think people really appreciate what Ford had to overcome to make this car street legal. Take that gas tank up the center--a brilliant idea, in terms of both safety and weight distribution. Also, it's true to the original idea of an American V8: supercharged, nothing overly tricky, nothing you couldn't understand or fix yourself. Okay, forget fix it yourself, but at least you can understand it.
I first drove the car at Laguna Seca with legendary Formula One champion Jackie Stewart. He is still such a good driver that you think, "Well, I might as well just turn my license in right now." It's so demoralizing. As we drove, he was saying to me, in his thick Scottish accent, "Well Jay, when yur shiftin' the cor, ya got t'be more linear, Jay. Y've got ta maike sure you do this royt.' And of course, he's clipping the apex of each turn perfectly--while he's looking at me. He's looking at me and driving the car really fast. I'm going off the track while I'm staring at the road. He does this all with such a minimum of effort while I'm physically exhausted.
Then I realize that people like Jackie Stewart are not that much older than me. When I was 13 years old, for instance, they were like 23. But somehow, it seems like they should be 80 now. It seems like such ancient history. I find it really intriguing when I meet them, especially because they still look the same to me. I remember I was on a plane once with Mickey Mantle. So I'm thinking, that can't be Mickey Mantle--look how young he is. Then I realized that Mickey Mantle was only about 16 years older than I was when I was a kid, so he was still only 16 years older than I was then.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

Oh, well I guess the fact that Jay Leno prefers Ford proves the point that more self made millionaires drive American cars.



Non-sequitur much?

 

[roadreeler57]

Thats just one example Death Eats a Cracker...The public has been brainwashed into thinking foriegn Cars are chique & somehow better.... Just not true..Whats the President ride around in? I think it's a Lincoln or a Caddy...Yes some American Cars were mechanics dreams in the past but they have really come a long way in the past 20 years or so....Have you Driven a Ford,GM or Chrysler lately?..."Think" about it anyway.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

Thats just one example Death Eats a Cracker...The public has been brainwashed into thinking foriegn Cars are chique & somehow better.... Just not true..Whats the President ride around in? I think it's a Lincoln or a Caddy...Yes some American Cars were mechanics dreams in the past but they have really come a long way in the past 20 years or so....Have you Driven a Ford,GM or Chrysler lately?..."Think" about it anyway.

Are you fucking serious?????????

 

[roadreeler57]

are you fucking serious?????????

yes i am fucking serious!

 

[Doug]

The President has to have an American car, no way around that.

 

[barman]

The consumer report article earlier in this thread made clear that foreign models demand far less repairs per 1000 vehicles and that pretty much settles it for anyone other than a person with vested interest in pitching American brands

 

[Romanowski]

You get ate alive by labor not parts on repairs smart guy.

labor is much less expensive on american cars as well

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

labor is much less expensive on american cars as well

Can you provide a source for this claim?

Oh, can you also cite a source for your claim that more self-made millionaires drive American cars?

TIA

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

Thats just one example Death Eats a Cracker...The public has been brainwashed into thinking foriegn Cars are chique & somehow better.... Just not true..Whats the President ride around in? I think it's a Lincoln or a Caddy...Yes some American Cars were mechanics dreams in the past but they have really come a long way in the past 20 years or so....Have you Driven a Ford,GM or Chrysler lately?..."Think" about it anyway.

You're not that bright, are you?

 

[Romanowski]

No I cant something I read once...along with going to state schools

its the self made men's kids who drive imports and go to private schools

Im not passionate about thsi topic like roadreeler and drive a Camry in fact but Im not as down on american cars as some of you

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

Well, here's some facts from a pretty definitive source. I assume everyone here has heard of Tom and Ray Magliozzi aka Click and Clack.

Bold my emphasis as it's relative to the discussion.

CLICK & CLACK : Foreign vs. Domestic


<NITF>Q Dear Tom and Ray:</NITF>
<NITF>I have been noticing that you answer foreign-car questions more often than American-car questions. We own a Mercury Grand Marquis and love the size, reliability and power. So, I am accusing you of being traitors in fairness to the great old USA. -- Peter
</NITF>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=238 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD width=10></TD><TD width=228></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><NITF>RAY: Actually, there's nothing intentional about the origin of the cars in our questions. We pick from what folks send us, and we try to choose questions that we think may be interesting to all of our readers that day.
</NITF>
<NITF>TOM: In terms of the merits of foreign vs. American cars underlying your question, it's not all that clear anymore which is which. Toyotas are built in Kentucky, Hondas in Ohio, and Mercedes-Benzes in Alabama. Chrysler is owned by Germans, and your own Mercury Grand Marquis was built in Canada.
</NITF>
<NITF>RAY: But if we look strictly at the origin of the nameplates (Ford, Toyota, etc.), the latest "frequency of repair" data show that, as a whole, American cars are better than European cars, but still not as good as Japanese cars.
</NITF>
<NITF>TOM: To use a fairly neutral source, the latest automotive issue of Consumer Reports named the top vehicles in 10 categories. They evaluated more than 200 new cars for such qualities as ride, handling, safety and reliability. Nine of their top 10 picks are Japanese. One is American (the Ford Focus).
</NITF>
<NITF>RAY: In terms of reliability only, CR called 15 cars "Most Reliable," based on detailed reports from thousands of owners. Every single one of the "Most Reliable" cars is Japanese.
</NITF>
<NITF>TOM: Of the 14 dubbed "Least Reliable," nine are European, two are Japanese, one is Korean and one is American (the Lincoln Navigator).
</NITF>
<NITF>RAY: Now, you may argue that Consumer Reports is a traitor, too. But we think their evaluations -- especially those regarding reliability and safety -- are pretty darned good. And they say that, in general, American cars -- while much better than they used to be -- are average to slightly below-average in reliability when compared with today's competition.
</NITF>
<NITF>TOM: What American cars do often provide, however, is pretty good value. Now that everybody knows that Japanese cars are super-reliable, Toyota and Honda are charging a premium for them over comparably sized American cars. So, if you want to spend less on your initial purchase, you may find a better deal in an American-car showroom.
</NITF>
<NITF>RAY: Over the life of the car, however, Consumer Reports' data suggest that when you factor in repair costs, you'll spend less on a Japanese car. That's been our observation, too.
</NITF>
<NITF>TOM: American cars are also known for their roominess. Like your Grand Marquis, they provide good elbow room and nice, comfortable, wide seats for corn-fed, wide-seated Americans (like my brother).

RAY: And the larger cars, like your Grand Marquis, have an inherent safety advantage due to their size and weight. So those are all positives.
</NITF>
<NITF>TOM: And there are some fantastic American cars out there. The Cadillac STS, the Chrysler 300C and the Ford Freestyle are just a few we've driven.
</NITF>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=238 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD width=10></TD><TD width=228></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<NITF>RAY: We do our best to call 'em aswesee 'em, Peter. I'm sure we're not perfectly neutral.
</NITF>
<NITF>TOM: But we do our best to be fair, and we base our opinions on our real-world experience testing the cars and fixing them in our shop. But we're happy you love your roomy, reliable Grand Marquis, and I'm sure you're not alone.

If you question the integrity of the source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Magliozzi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Magliozzi

 

[barman]

labor is much less expensive on american cars as well

Not in the year 2008 in any kind of major population center. The general mechanic shops all over my area have no different labor charges for foreign makes.

There was a time maybe as recently as the early 90s when foreign car parts cost more, but that's also antiquated as the combination of major parts suppliers and after market parts companies have bridged that cost gap long ago.

 

[Doug]

IMO, foreign car parts can cost a lot more....but only on more elite stuff like Mercedes,BMW,Saab,Porsche,etc.

Stuff for Honda,Toyota,and Nissan should be right inline with the big 3 American companies.

I really think this foreign car bias started in the 70's.... when Detroit made crap, and Japan made good stuff.

My parents never owned a foreign car, but owned nearly every crap American car ever made ( Vega,Pinto,etc.).

My first car was a 1975 Dodge Dart, good very reliable car, never had an American car since, but many American trucks, only bad one was a Ford Courier ( really bad truck).

For an American car I'd only buy a Mustang or a Corvette, but I don't need speed.

I still think Ford trucks ( full size) are the standard, and have an F-150.

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

My parents never owned a foreign car, but owned nearly every crap American car ever made ( Vega,Pinto,etc.).

Sweet Zeus.

Consider yourself lucky that your parents made it out of the 70's alive. Not only are the Vega and Pinto two of the worst cars ever made, people died because of the shitty engineering and quality of these pieces of garbage.