Great topic.
Not sure about Bernie Williams...less than 300 homers in a 15 year career as an outfielder not as impressive as some others on the list.
My first thought on Omar Vizquel is no way, but he is probably one of the best defensive SS in the history of the game. Ozzie Smith had way more flare and was much more a SB guy, but Smith was a no-brainer pick and I don't see much difference between the 2.
Trevor Hoffman, probably the modern day equivalent to Bruce Sutter, but it took him a while to get in. Plus, Sutter was basically the first to use the splitter, which has transformed the way pitchers pitch, so I would expect him to get in because of that. Hoffman may take a while.
I think Glaus will be a major stretch, unless he hits 500 homers or starts to hit for some average. 250 lifetime nowadays not good enough.
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Not sure about Bernie Williams...less than 300 homers in a 15 year career as an outfielder not as impressive as some others on the list.
My first thought on Omar Vizquel is no way, but he is probably one of the best defensive SS in the history of the game. Ozzie Smith had way more flare and was much more a SB guy, but Smith was a no-brainer pick and I don't see much difference between the 2.
Trevor Hoffman, probably the modern day equivalent to Bruce Sutter, but it took him a while to get in. Plus, Sutter was basically the first to use the splitter, which has transformed the way pitchers pitch, so I would expect him to get in because of that. Hoffman may take a while.
I think Glaus will be a major stretch, unless he hits 500 homers or starts to hit for some average. 250 lifetime nowadays not good enough.
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ROGER CLEMENS (Lock)
JEFF BAGWELL (I would say no, but I think he is probable)
CRAIG BIGGIO (he will get in, his numbers qualify him automatically)
FRANK THOMAS (probable)
DEREK JETER (Lock)
ALEX RODRIQUEZ (Lock)
GARRY SHEFFIELD (In)
BERNIE WILLIAMS (this will be close, I will say no)
RANDY JOHNSON (Lock)
MARIANO RIVERA (Lock)
JOHN SMOLTZ (I don't think he makes it)
CHIPPER JONES (In)
ANDREW JONES (In)
ALBERT PUJOS (Unlss he gets hurt ..see Juan Gonzales, he is a lock)
GREG MADDOX (Lock)
JEFF KENT ( I think it will be close, I will say no, early career might kill him)
OMAR VIZQUEL (Lock)
BARRY BONDS (Lock)
MANNY RAMERIZ (Lock)
KEN GRIEFFY (Lock)
TOM GLAVINE (unfortunately a lock)
PEDRO MARTINEZ (Lock)
TREVOR HOFFMAN
PUDGE RODRIQUZ (Lock)
MIKE PIAZZA (probable)
RICKY HENDERSON (Lock)
JIM THOME (In)
JEFF BAGWELL (I would say no, but I think he is probable)
CRAIG BIGGIO (he will get in, his numbers qualify him automatically)
FRANK THOMAS (probable)
DEREK JETER (Lock)
ALEX RODRIQUEZ (Lock)
GARRY SHEFFIELD (In)
BERNIE WILLIAMS (this will be close, I will say no)
RANDY JOHNSON (Lock)
MARIANO RIVERA (Lock)
JOHN SMOLTZ (I don't think he makes it)
CHIPPER JONES (In)
ANDREW JONES (In)
ALBERT PUJOS (Unlss he gets hurt ..see Juan Gonzales, he is a lock)
GREG MADDOX (Lock)
JEFF KENT ( I think it will be close, I will say no, early career might kill him)
OMAR VIZQUEL (Lock)
BARRY BONDS (Lock)
MANNY RAMERIZ (Lock)
KEN GRIEFFY (Lock)
TOM GLAVINE (unfortunately a lock)
PEDRO MARTINEZ (Lock)
TREVOR HOFFMAN
PUDGE RODRIQUZ (Lock)
MIKE PIAZZA (probable)
RICKY HENDERSON (Lock)
JIM THOME (In)
CHOPTALK said:
PRETT MUCH i DO AGREE...I THINK SMOLTZ IS AT BEST A BUBBLE GUY...HE DOESN'T HAVE 200 WINS YET EITHER.
200 WINS IS BY NO MEANS A HOF LOCK OR EVEN CLOSE, HIS SAVES MIGHT BE OVERLOOKED, HIS VERSATILITY IS A BIG PLUS, YOU COULD MAKE A CASE I SUPPOSE I JUST FEEL LIKE HIS CAREER HAD TOO MANY JUST ABOVE AVERAGE SEASONS.
KENT IS AN INTERESTING SITUATION, HIS NUMBERS ARE GREAT BUT HIS EARLY CAREER REALLY HURTS HIM...
I REMEMBER WHEN THE JAYS TRADED A VERY YOUNG JEFF KENT AWAY AND GOT BACK DAVID CONE FOR THE PLAYOFF STRETCH RUN....I REMEMBER THINKING WHO THE HELL IS JEFF KENT? :lolBIG:
Chop, I'll play along.
About Biggio - I can't think of one great year he had. Very solid career, but this is a player that is a product of career numbers and putting up against players who have WS rings. Do you honestly think he was better than Robbie Alomar? No way in my book.
Bagwell - I think the steroids (?) may hurt him. His career was about the same as Darrell Evans. Bags lack of success will really hurt him at HOF time. Also have to consider two of his contemporaries (F Thomas and Mc Griff) have a great chance too.
I still think Pedro Martinez needs a little more as does Smoltz, judging by career numbers.
About Biggio - I can't think of one great year he had. Very solid career, but this is a player that is a product of career numbers and putting up against players who have WS rings. Do you honestly think he was better than Robbie Alomar? No way in my book.
Bagwell - I think the steroids (?) may hurt him. His career was about the same as Darrell Evans. Bags lack of success will really hurt him at HOF time. Also have to consider two of his contemporaries (F Thomas and Mc Griff) have a great chance too.
I still think Pedro Martinez needs a little more as does Smoltz, judging by career numbers.
FairWarning said:
I can name you 30 players in the hall of fame that is in for that very reason.
Cal Ripken
Wade Boggs
Even Pete Rose if you really want to get down to it.
Name 1 trully great year that Pete Rose has ever had. Oh sure, he had plenty of way above average x25 years to reach his stats, but he is basically a product of having a long career. If Pete Rose would have only played 15 years instead of 25 years, he would not have even got 3000 hits, and would not make the HOF regardless of his betting on baseball.
Dont punish the players who do it for years and years. Thats what separates the Hank Aarons from the Dale Murphys.
CHOPTALK said:
Great thread Chop...love when the masses get riled. The names left above are people I agree with you. I don't know where you came up with a few guys...Derrek Lee? He's been bouncing around for years and has had one spectacular year.
Within the next few years the standards are going to be raised for the HOF...especially for hitting. 500 HR's and 1,500 Ribbies ain't going to mean too much. The new standard will be 550/1750, except for certain position players. Biggio, Piazza, Jeter, Tejada I think will all get in, with Piazza and Jeter being 1st ballot guys.
