When you wrote in the other thread "Preussen, you moron ... you are a lunatic" etc. you didn't not insult me, you were only describing people who use a certain weak method of debating? I think not everybody will agree with you in that respect.
I was referring to post #67 in THIS thread, you know it and I know it, so stop changing what you reference every time you come up lame, how old are you, 18?? Seriously.
meat tastes good screw that :toast:
there is no intended way of things
we figured out how to mass kill um and cook um so we can digest um
obviously meat eating leads to more health problems but its give and take
some people choose to smoke and drink alot as well
and medical advances at the same time have fought mother nature to allow us to live longer too
honestly a big problem we got going forward for our species is too many of us present to sustain on this planet especially since the poor uneducated parts of the world continue to expand population at a rapid rate
potable water is already a big issue in many parts of the world and will become an even bigger issue going forward
decrease in health related to meat eating the least of our worries anyway and honestly its my feeling humans on average live too long now as it is anyway.........well longer than nature "intended"
i don't think he's saying that
he's right IMO that physically we are built to be herbivores and our bodies prefer fruits, nuts, and veggies and we are healthier people if we eat lots of um and don't eat much meat
and all the heart problems you see more in the western world compared to the eastern world can be directed towards one big reason
much more meat eating
he's right IMO that physically we are built to be herbivores and our bodies prefer fruits, nuts, and veggies and we are healthier people if we eat lots of um and don't eat much meat
and all the heart problems you see more in the western world compared to the eastern world can be directed towards one big reason
much more meat eating
Well, I was talking about the other thread, as were you when you started this sub-discussion in this thread. If it pleases you I will hereby state that in post #67 of this thread there was no direct insult, and I never claimed there was.
Your statement in post #67 is obviously purely hypothetical as it evidently has nothing at all to do with my way of argumenting in that other thread.
bottom line we can't roam around the wild and kill and hunt shit like a bear or lion or hawk and eat it raw as raw gets
our physical makeup wasn't intended to eat meat its pretty obvious
also if you look at digestive tract carinvores are around 3 times body length ours is 12 on par with herbivores
quick, interesting read written by a cardiologist. of course random would like us all to believe he is a cardiologist, nutritionist, gi specialist, and paleontologist (and not a vegetarian crusader) but let's see what the good doc here has to say:
Are humans meant to be omnivores?
Are humans meant to be omnivores?
Does the ideal human diet include animal products like meat, fish, cheese, eggs, and dairy products?
Or should the ideal diet be devoid of all animal products⎯a vegetarian diet?
Though the argument is distorted by modern food processing methods (e.g., factory farming, long-term administration of antibiotics), convenience foods, and pseudo-foods crafted by food manufacturers, there are, obviously, proponents of both extremes.
The Atkins’ diet, for instance, advocates unrestricted intake of animal products, regardless of production methods or curing (sausage and bacon). At the opposite extreme are diets like Ornish (Dr. Dean Ornish’s Program for Reversal of Heart Disease) and the experiences of Dr. Colin Campbell, articulated in his studies and book, The China Study, in which he lambasts animal products, including dairy, as triggers for cancer and heart disease.
So which end of the spectrum is correct? Or ideal?
For the sake of argument, let's put aside philosophical questions (like not wanting eat animal products because of aversion to killing any living being) or ethical concerns (inhumane treatment of farm animals, cruel slaughtering practices, etc.). Does the inclusion of animal products provide advantage? Disadvantage?
The traditional argument against animal products has been saturated fat. If we accept that we’ve demoted the saturated fat question to a place far down the list of importance (though this is yet another argument to discuss another time), several questions emerge:
• If humans were meant to be vegetarian, why do omega-3 fatty acids (mostly from wild game and fish) yield such substantial health benefits, including dramatic reduction in sudden death from heart disease?
• Why would vitamin K2 (from meats and milk, as well as fermented foods like natto and cheese), obtainable in only the tiniest amounts on a vegetarian diet, provide such significant benefits on bone and cardiovascular health?
• Why would vitamin B12 (from meats) be necessary to maintain a normal blood count, prevent anemia, keep homocysteine at bay, and lead to profound neurologic dysfunction when deficient?
Omega-3 fatty acids and vitamins K2 and B12 cannot be obtained in satisfactory quantities from a pure vegetarian diet. The consequences of deficiency are not measured in decades, but in a few years. The conclusion is unavoidable: Evolutionarily, humans are meant to consume at least some foods from animal sources.
That's not to say that we should gorge ourselves on animal products. Gout (excessive uric acid) and kidney stones are among the unhealthy consequences of excessive quantities of meats in our diets.
It pains me to say this, since I’ve always favored a vegetarian lifestyle, mostly because of philosophical concerns, as well as worries about the safety of our factory farm-raised livestock and rampant inhumane practices.
But, stepping back and objectively examining what nutritional approach appears to stack the odds in favor of optimal health, I believe that only one conclusion is possible: Humans are meant to be omnivorous, meant to consume some quantity of animal products in addition to vegetables, fruits, nuts, and other non-animal products.
below is a quick youtube video on the subject that ties together most of our arguments...
Humans are Omnivores
<OBJECT id=movie_player height=385 width=480 classid=clsid
27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000>
</OBJECT>
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> var fo = writeMoviePlayer("watch-player-div"); </SCRIPT>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNvTUy6VtJg
Are humans meant to be omnivores?
Are humans meant to be omnivores?
Does the ideal human diet include animal products like meat, fish, cheese, eggs, and dairy products?
Or should the ideal diet be devoid of all animal products⎯a vegetarian diet?
Though the argument is distorted by modern food processing methods (e.g., factory farming, long-term administration of antibiotics), convenience foods, and pseudo-foods crafted by food manufacturers, there are, obviously, proponents of both extremes.
The Atkins’ diet, for instance, advocates unrestricted intake of animal products, regardless of production methods or curing (sausage and bacon). At the opposite extreme are diets like Ornish (Dr. Dean Ornish’s Program for Reversal of Heart Disease) and the experiences of Dr. Colin Campbell, articulated in his studies and book, The China Study, in which he lambasts animal products, including dairy, as triggers for cancer and heart disease.
So which end of the spectrum is correct? Or ideal?
For the sake of argument, let's put aside philosophical questions (like not wanting eat animal products because of aversion to killing any living being) or ethical concerns (inhumane treatment of farm animals, cruel slaughtering practices, etc.). Does the inclusion of animal products provide advantage? Disadvantage?
The traditional argument against animal products has been saturated fat. If we accept that we’ve demoted the saturated fat question to a place far down the list of importance (though this is yet another argument to discuss another time), several questions emerge:
• If humans were meant to be vegetarian, why do omega-3 fatty acids (mostly from wild game and fish) yield such substantial health benefits, including dramatic reduction in sudden death from heart disease?
• Why would vitamin K2 (from meats and milk, as well as fermented foods like natto and cheese), obtainable in only the tiniest amounts on a vegetarian diet, provide such significant benefits on bone and cardiovascular health?
• Why would vitamin B12 (from meats) be necessary to maintain a normal blood count, prevent anemia, keep homocysteine at bay, and lead to profound neurologic dysfunction when deficient?
Omega-3 fatty acids and vitamins K2 and B12 cannot be obtained in satisfactory quantities from a pure vegetarian diet. The consequences of deficiency are not measured in decades, but in a few years. The conclusion is unavoidable: Evolutionarily, humans are meant to consume at least some foods from animal sources.
That's not to say that we should gorge ourselves on animal products. Gout (excessive uric acid) and kidney stones are among the unhealthy consequences of excessive quantities of meats in our diets.
It pains me to say this, since I’ve always favored a vegetarian lifestyle, mostly because of philosophical concerns, as well as worries about the safety of our factory farm-raised livestock and rampant inhumane practices.
But, stepping back and objectively examining what nutritional approach appears to stack the odds in favor of optimal health, I believe that only one conclusion is possible: Humans are meant to be omnivorous, meant to consume some quantity of animal products in addition to vegetables, fruits, nuts, and other non-animal products.
below is a quick youtube video on the subject that ties together most of our arguments...
Humans are Omnivores
<OBJECT id=movie_player height=385 width=480 classid=clsid
27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000></OBJECT>
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> var fo = writeMoviePlayer("watch-player-div"); </SCRIPT>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNvTUy6VtJg
we can eat fish raw aka sushi that is high in omega 3, K2, and B12
and fish the most plentiful and easiest thing to catch in the wild as far meat goes
and research has shown it is by far the healthiest of the meats
i'm not saying we strict herbivores but nature didn't "intend" our diet to include tons of red meat and dairy that we eat
and fish the most plentiful and easiest thing to catch in the wild as far meat goes
and research has shown it is by far the healthiest of the meats
i'm not saying we strict herbivores but nature didn't "intend" our diet to include tons of red meat and dairy that we eat
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basically its degree of scales IMO
not all omnivores are the same basically
a bear is an omnivore slanted quite heavily in the carnivore direction
while humans are also omnivores but slanted heavily in the direction of herbivores
also not all bears are created equal now that i think about it
black bears aren't hunters and mainly just eat fruits and veggies but will eat a dead carcass if it runs across it or kill a human if he trying to protect himself and gets scared
while grizzly's are the hunters and eats more meat and i think eat a ton of fish and what they are the best at catching
not all omnivores are the same basically
a bear is an omnivore slanted quite heavily in the carnivore direction
while humans are also omnivores but slanted heavily in the direction of herbivores
also not all bears are created equal now that i think about it
black bears aren't hunters and mainly just eat fruits and veggies but will eat a dead carcass if it runs across it or kill a human if he trying to protect himself and gets scared
while grizzly's are the hunters and eats more meat and i think eat a ton of fish and what they are the best at catching
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Healthy Fats For Vegetarians and Vegans
How To Get The Right Balance of Omega 3 & Omega 6 In Your Diet
By Dr. Linda Posch, MS SLP ND
1 tablespoon of flax oil per day seems to provide enough ALA for conversion to daily therapeutic amounts of EPA and DHA. Hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds and sesame seeds are also good sources of ALA. Brazil nuts, wheat germ, wheat germ oil, soybean oil and canola oil also contain significant amounts. There is no reason for vegetarians to be deficient in Omega 3 fatty acids, especially EPA and DHA.
How To Get The Right Balance of Omega 3 & Omega 6 In Your Diet
By Dr. Linda Posch, MS SLP ND
1 tablespoon of flax oil per day seems to provide enough ALA for conversion to daily therapeutic amounts of EPA and DHA. Hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds and sesame seeds are also good sources of ALA. Brazil nuts, wheat germ, wheat germ oil, soybean oil and canola oil also contain significant amounts. There is no reason for vegetarians to be deficient in Omega 3 fatty acids, especially EPA and DHA.
kinda off topic but since we on the biology kick
humans think we are so great and the shit but as far as species goes we have a long ass way to go to become successful we've only been around like 1/2 million years and chances are we won't be all that successful over the long haul
dinosaurs were kicking all kinds of ass for a long time but than mother nature, meteors and shit ended them
humans think we are so great and the shit but as far as species goes we have a long ass way to go to become successful we've only been around like 1/2 million years and chances are we won't be all that successful over the long haul
dinosaurs were kicking all kinds of ass for a long time but than mother nature, meteors and shit ended them
Vitamin B12 in the Vegan Diet
by Reed Mangels, Ph.D., R.D.
Reliable Vegan Sources of Vitamin B12
A number of reliable vegan food sources for vitamin B12 are known. One brand of nutritional yeast, Red Star T-6635+, has been tested and shown to contain active vitamin B12. This brand of yeast is often labeled as Vegetarian Support Formula with or without T-6635+ in parentheses following this new name. It is a reliable source of vitamin B12. Nutritional yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, is a food yeast, grown on a molasses solution, which comes as yellow flakes or powder. It has a cheesy taste. Nutritional yeast is different from brewer’s yeast or torula yeast. those sensitive to other yeasts can often use it.
The RDA for adults for vitamin B12 is 2.4 micrograms daily (1). About 2 rounded teaspoons of large flake Vegetarian Support Formula (Red Star T-6635+) nutritional yeast provides the recommended amount of vitamin B12 for adults (2). A number of the recipes in this book contain nutritional yeast.
Another source of vitamin B12 is fortified cereal. For example, Nature’s Path Optimum Power cereal does contain vitamin B12 at this time and about a half cup of this cereal will provide 2.4 micrograms of vitamin B12 (3). We recommend checking the label of your favorite cereal since manufacturers have been known to stop including vitamin B12.
Other sources of vitamin B12 are vitamin B12 fortified soy milk, vitamin B12 fortified meat analogues (food made from wheat gluten or soybeans to resemble meat, poultry, or fish), and vitamin B12 supplements. There are vitamin supplements that do not contain animal products.
by Reed Mangels, Ph.D., R.D.
Reliable Vegan Sources of Vitamin B12
A number of reliable vegan food sources for vitamin B12 are known. One brand of nutritional yeast, Red Star T-6635+, has been tested and shown to contain active vitamin B12. This brand of yeast is often labeled as Vegetarian Support Formula with or without T-6635+ in parentheses following this new name. It is a reliable source of vitamin B12. Nutritional yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, is a food yeast, grown on a molasses solution, which comes as yellow flakes or powder. It has a cheesy taste. Nutritional yeast is different from brewer’s yeast or torula yeast. those sensitive to other yeasts can often use it.
The RDA for adults for vitamin B12 is 2.4 micrograms daily (1). About 2 rounded teaspoons of large flake Vegetarian Support Formula (Red Star T-6635+) nutritional yeast provides the recommended amount of vitamin B12 for adults (2). A number of the recipes in this book contain nutritional yeast.
Another source of vitamin B12 is fortified cereal. For example, Nature’s Path Optimum Power cereal does contain vitamin B12 at this time and about a half cup of this cereal will provide 2.4 micrograms of vitamin B12 (3). We recommend checking the label of your favorite cereal since manufacturers have been known to stop including vitamin B12.
Other sources of vitamin B12 are vitamin B12 fortified soy milk, vitamin B12 fortified meat analogues (food made from wheat gluten or soybeans to resemble meat, poultry, or fish), and vitamin B12 supplements. There are vitamin supplements that do not contain animal products.
you go from talking about natural/nature to talking about taking supplements and pills to get certain things in your diet
we aren't strict herbivores obviously but you can pull it off and lead a healthier lifestyle than people that eat lots of meat that's for sure
fish are the easiest to digest and best meat to get all those things that are harder to get from fruits and nuts and plants
personally think healthiest human diet cuts out all red meat and dairy and only eats fish as far as meat and the rest fruit, nuts, veggies, grains etc.....
you can get lots of calcium from spinach and greens and i'm pretty sure you absorb it better than you do in the milk form
we aren't strict herbivores obviously but you can pull it off and lead a healthier lifestyle than people that eat lots of meat that's for sure
fish are the easiest to digest and best meat to get all those things that are harder to get from fruits and nuts and plants
personally think healthiest human diet cuts out all red meat and dairy and only eats fish as far as meat and the rest fruit, nuts, veggies, grains etc.....
you can get lots of calcium from spinach and greens and i'm pretty sure you absorb it better than you do in the milk form
