How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[festeringZit]

Huh?

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Roman Catholic doctrine on justification
which differs from the Protestant view which says that man is
saved by grace alone.


Those who are justified are saved and salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23), something we cannot earn (Eph. 2:1-10). However, Roman Catholic doctrine denies justification by faith alone and says:

• "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema" (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9).
• "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema." (Canon 14).

I would agree with the Protestant view.

 

[hippieki11er]

Right, I'm pretty familiar with the catechisms of both churches.

Rather, I thought Wildcat was implying that xfrodo is Catholic, which I'm almost certain he's not. I'd guess he's a non-denom Evangelical if anything..

 

[ScottL]

He's a denom on wheels. He's a denom and he's gonna be chasin' after someone...... [No one under age 40 will get that]

 

[Romanowski]

heres a verse in the NT that I cannot understand

generally speaking I think scripture is a great thing, I even study etylmology and read OT in hebrew and NT in greek

but I also keep an open mind and simply some verse and in some cases entire gospels I do not promote as truth.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his owne life also, hee cannot be my disciple.

from the purest english translation, the KJV, this would suggest Christ (Yahshua) only wanted the weakest of followers, those with nobody else to turn to.

Why?

I also do not believe the scripture, and the further conjecture and additions to scripture that promote the idea that the Jews killed Yahshua...its simply a cover up by the Romans, who by and large were the promoters of Christianity 3 hundred years after the crucification and could have easily ommitted and/or added verses to make them, Rome, look better.

It simply doesn't make sense, Rome had more to gain by killing him.

and in fact a recent Special on National Geographic, shows that historians agree

http://channel.nationalgeographic.c...-the-bible/4401/Overview?#tab-Videos/06474_00

 

[DesertDevil]

Right, I'm pretty familiar with the catechisms of both churches.

Rather, I thought Wildcat was implying that xfrodo is Catholic, which I'm almost certain he's not. I'd guess he's a non-denom Evangelical if anything..

Sorry I was not clear.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Zit.

 

[festeringZit]

heres a verse in the NT that I cannot understand

generally speaking I think scripture is a great thing, I even study etylmology and read OT in hebrew and NT in greek

but I also keep an open mind and simply some verse and in some cases entire gospels I do not promote as truth.

Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea and his owne life also, hee cannot be my disciple.

from the purest english translation, the KJV, this would suggest Christ (Yahshua) only wanted the weakest of followers, those with nobody else to turn to.

Why?

I also do not believe the scripture, and the further conjecture and additions to scripture that promote the idea that the Jews killed Yahshua...its simply a cover up by the Romans, who by and large were the promoters of Christianity 3 hundred years after the crucification and could have easily ommitted and/or added verses to make them, Rome, look better.

It simply doesn't make sense, Rome had more to gain by killing him.

and in fact a recent Special on National Geographic, shows that historians agree

http://channel.nationalgeographic.c...-the-bible/4401/Overview?#tab-Videos/06474_00

Romanowski,

Jesus is simply using hyperbole to make a point. He clearly isn't
speaking about literally hating people at all, because his whole ministry
was based on loving people - he is emphasizing the cost of
following him, and being his disciple.

Another of the many example of Jesus and hyperbole is the famous
Sermon on the Mount when he says that if your eye causes you to sin
that you should rip it out and throw it away.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23262" value="27">27</sup>"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href="#fen-NIV-23262e" title="See footnote e">e</a>]">[e]</sup> <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23263" value="28">28</sup>But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23264" value="29">29</sup>If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-23265" value="30">30</sup>And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

[barman]

The above a fair interpretation by ZIT, imho.

And also a nice demonstration of why overall interpretation of the Holy Bible has led to diverse understandings of various sub-topics within.

 

[Pauleboman]

Pray this prayer before it`s too Late...I promise you wont regret it..


[SIZE=+2]Lord Jesus, I am a sinner. But I believe that you died upon[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]the cross for me. That you shed your precious blood for the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]forgiveness of my sin. And I believe that on the third day, you[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]rose from the dead, and went to Heaven to prepare a place[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]for me. I accept you now as my Savior, my Lord, my God,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]my friend. Come into my heart, Lord Jesus, and set me free[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]from my sin. And, because you are my Savior, Jesus,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]"I shall not die, but have everlasting life".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]Thank you Jesus![/SIZE]

 

[barman]

"....before it's too late!!"

----
I still need to fully cap out today's MLB card, but after that gets done, I'll get right on that prayer.

Well, unless some friends call and want to go out. Then it may be tomorrow

Or maybe the next day

But I'll get to it! I don't want to Burn in Everlasting Hellfire like my Jewish wife

 

[ScottL]

Ah, another robot has wandered into our cyberpub.

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

asfasfasf

 

[barman]

rjkrrjkrjrkjrj

 

[Romanowski]

ok another hard hitting question

were the gentile nations evil in nature, before they got a taste of judiasm and monotheism?

Was paganism evil? Or did it simply run its course in a healthy manner?

See where im going with this?

like to hear some opinions

 

[kingking]

Pray this prayer before it`s too Late...I promise you wont regret it..


[SIZE=+2]Lord Jesus, I am a sinner. But I believe that you died upon[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]the cross for me. That you shed your precious blood for the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]forgiveness of my sin. And I believe that on the third day, you[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]rose from the dead, and went to Heaven to prepare a place[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]for me. I accept you now as my Savior, my Lord, my God,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]my friend. Come into my heart, Lord Jesus, and set me free[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]from my sin. And, because you are my Savior, Jesus,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]"I shall not die, but have everlasting life".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]Thank you Jesus![/SIZE]

Id cut everything out except

[SIZE=+2]"I shall not die, but have everlasting life".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]Thank you![/SIZE]

other part is kinda zzz hno:
but to each his own. as to what will be there when we leave here, whatever you believe will be there, will. hno:

 

[Illini]

Its a mockery.

"Pray this prayer and you will be saved..."

Give me a break. The Bible in no way preaches this.

A wise man once said, "Actions speak louder than words".

Im not Catholic. Your works are not good enough. But say a few words and presto? You are saved? Please....

What about the thief on the cross? I do think it's Biblical to say that grace is imputed to the believer, and salvation is immediate and eternal. I would also say that salvation is independent of actions. Salvation is not dependant on performance. If it were, we would all go to hell.

So I would offer that the Bible does in fact preach this. It is not the end-all, and may in fact be oversimplification, but I do agree with it in general. How else can you come to God and be saved, other than to humble yourself and ask him to save you?

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

So much confusion and disagreement over interpretations. You'd think a perfect god would do a better job at making his message perfectly clear.

 

[barman]

So much confusion and disagreement over interpretations. You'd think a perfect god would do a better job at making his message perfectly clear.

heh...Well, as we've observed over the past 33 years of attending various Christian congregations, there's only a few who would insist that "there is no disagreement with interpretation. We're right and you're wrong."

Thus leaving the rest of us to rock along with a healthy and happy relationship with not only the Christ, but also with the many, many other Master Teachers down through the ages and of course living in our presence right now.

 

[barman]

And though I understand "Heaven" to be a present state of mind, rather than some dreamed of destination in the future, I've always enjoyed this story:

A Muslim, a Catholic, a Jew and a (surprised) atheist are getting their first tour of Heaven from St Peter's staff.

As they travel through the endless pathways of the palatial living areas, they see one giant set of double doors, behind which they can hear loud singing, laughter and general chatter.

"What's in there?" they ask.

"Oh, that's where we keep all the Fundamentalist Christians. But be quiet....They think they're the only ones up here."

 

[DeathEatsaCracker]

Of course, barman, you understand that I find your beliefs no less crazy than the Fundies.

:toast:

 

[festeringZit]

So much confusion and disagreement over interpretations. You'd think a perfect god would do a better job at making his message perfectly clear.

Actually there is quite a solid consensus between all the Christian
denominations over the fundamentals of the Christian faith.

As the great early church father Augustine said:

In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity (love).