how much will nationalized healthcare cost the country?

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HAS HE EVER TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT ANYTHING ?

Seriously,........ anything?


Whats president Obama's health care really about?


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Health care

there are reasons why our healthcare system is costly

healthcare on demand
20 million illegals
drugs
obesity
treatment for dying elderly people
treatment for terminally ill people

Not France nor any other country in the world has those problems.

Approximately 30% of a person's lifetime healthcare costs are incurred in the last 30 days of their life in this country. Are we willing to start letting people die?

I think one has to be totally naive to think we're going to reduce healthcare costs and improve quality by creating a new and largest bureaucracy in this country (how many billions will be spent on governing?) , cover more Americans while decreasing earnings incentives of professionals and taking away investment incentives for pharmaceuticals.

talk about a suspension of disbelief, that shit is right out of a Looney Toon cartoon.

Three words, your choice

"not fucking possible"

"no fucking way"

Well stated Willie. Lets have the Government employees be forced to use the same retirement and medical funds/systems they impose on us. No more taxpayer supported bennies for the anointed ones. If Obama is running out of money for his spending craze, he can tap into the Government medical and retirement funds? Should be plenty of money there.
 

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Anyone got an answer?


Another smoke/mirror topic!

What is really going on in that white house on Pennsylvania Ave?

Question for anyone but everyone need not reply.........


Would National Health Care plan be provided to those voting for or against it in Washington or would they keep the plan they have now that costs them zero dollars? They say everyone will have a choice which plan to enroll in so I was wondering when they are going to let us tell them which plan we want them to enroll in! :laugh:
 

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ObamaCare Is in a Ditch :103631605
Jennifer Rubin - 06.21.2009 - 5:51 PM

The Sunday talk shows were not kind to ObamaCare:

“So we’re in the position of dialing down some of our expectations to get the costs down so that it’s affordable and, most importantly, so that it’s paid for because we can’t go to the point where we are now of not paying for something when we have trillions of dollars of debt,” said [Sen. Chuck] Grassley, R-Iowa.

“And we anticipate paying for it through some savings and Medicare, and from some increases in revenue,” he said.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said she wasn’t certain there are enough votes in the president’s own party to support the proposal.

“I think there’s a lot of concern in the Democratic caucus,” she said.

The overhaul’s chief proponent in the Senate, Chris Dodd of Connecticut, urged patience as lawmakers continued working on the bill. However, Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said the bill’s cost was problematic.

“You do the math,” McCain said. “It comes up to $3 trillion. And so far, we have no proposal for having to pay for it.”

The CBO estimates “were a death blow to a government-run health care plan,” Graham said. “The Finance Committee has abandoned that. We do need to deal with inflation in health care, private and public inflation, but we’re not going to go down to the government-owning-health-care road in America and I think that’s the story of this week. There’s been a bipartisan rejection of that.”

At some point the White House will have to get into the game rather than allow Congress to thrash about endlessly. The president will have to make clear what his bottom line is and how he’s going to pay for it. Until now Obama has largely relied on Congress to come up with the details of his agenda (e.g. on the stimulus, climate control, and healthcare) but when the liberal leadership in the House and Senate can’t find a majority for their proposals then the president will need to try to round up the votes that Pelosi and Reid haven’t been able to find, craft a compromise that will disappoint his base, or let his top priorities founder.

Obama during his brief tenure in the Senate was never a deal-maker or legisltive craftsman. Now he — or his aides — will need to do the hard work of governing. It’s obviously not their favorite activity nor one which Obama is comfortable doing, but the time for dog-and-pony shows has come and gone.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/category/contentions
 

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The government controls Medicare. It's broke.

The government controls Medicaid. It's broke.

The government controls the VA system entirely, including running its own hospitals. It's broke.

There is no evidence whatsoever that suggests, or proves in any way, that the federal government can control the health care system and control costs.

Every single time it has tried to do so...FAIL leads to broke.

But this time it's different...sure it is.


It's an absurd notion that Healthcare reform is in the best interest of tax paying Americans. It's pure nonsense that this unamerican notion even became an idea in the minds of policymakers.
The only way Obamacare could dramatically reduce healthcare costs is if he by issuing a "Presidential Signing Statement" allows Acorn activists to perform all future surgeries.
 

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Quote:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Mistermj
The government controls Medicare. It's broke.

The government controls Medicaid. It's broke.

The government controls the VA system entirely, including running its own hospitals. It's broke.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
holy cow...so no one will receive any more Medicare or Medicaid payments and the VA system is closing??

This is news worthy of its own thread, imho
 

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How Republican is it to ignore the fact that our current system is going to bankrupt the country within the next decade and try and undermine any efforts to improve.
 

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How Republican is it to ignore the fact that our current system is going to bankrupt the country within the next decade and try and undermine any efforts to improve.

How liberal is it to make that argument? especially considering the same individual supports this

---------------------------------------------------------------right :ohno:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

A preliminary estimate by the Congressional Budget Office said the bill would cost $1 trillion over 10 years but leave many uninsured. The office said an early version of the Finance Committee bill would cost $1.6 trillion.
Senate Democrats conceded that the unexpectedly high estimates had forced them to regroup, and acknowledged that they were still divided over how to pay for the legislation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/18/us...1&ref=politics

yessiree, lets grow the deficit, that'll solve the too big deficit problem :103631605

-----------------------------------------------------------------
as if this isn't enough growth already

wapoobamabudget1.jpg


lets take that deficit and at least double it for each of the next 8 years, that'll solve the deficit problem

:ohno:

------------------------------------------------------------

I think Punter's post should be moved to "the official WTF thread" in the RR
 

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Ideas, willie where are the ideas. Current healhcare cost are around 2.5 trillion annually and we cover fewer of our citizens than most civilized nations but as I said the republicans can only throw stones. Not one offering as an alternative.

The insurance lobbyist are circling and all the republicans can do is parrot what they are saying,
 

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Ideas, willie where are the ideas. Current healhcare cost are around 2.5 trillion annually and we cover fewer of our citizens than most civilized nations but as I said the republicans can only throw stones. Not one offering as an alternative.

The insurance lobbyist are circling and all the republicans can do is parrot what they are saying,
against this old prick shows just how far his head is up his loony leftist ass.

clearly you don't know that Louie Gohmert has an alternative health plan, called a Health Savings Account, which is far less expensive and more inclusive than what we know about BHO's "plan". I would post you links to his plan but since you can't think for yourself, it would be useless to provide the info. Enjoy BHO's infomercial tonight! Dasvedanya
 

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Ideas, willie where are the ideas. Current healhcare cost are around 2.5 trillion annually and we cover fewer of our citizens than most civilized nations but as I said the republicans can only throw stones. Not one offering as an alternative.

The insurance lobbyist are circling and all the republicans can do is parrot what they are saying,

Here is an idea for you...you are talking out of your ass again.

ABC News/USA Today/Kaiser Family Foundation survey that shows 89 percent of Americans are satisfied with their health care
 

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Bullshit poll. How many have had or have health problems? how many have experienced what private insurers do when you have health problems or just get old?

Hell, I could say that I'm happy now that I'm on medicare except I know that the coming years will bankrupt the country unless there are drastic changes.
 

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against this old prick shows just how far his head is up his loony leftist ass.

clearly you don't know that Louie Gohmert has an alternative health plan, called a Health Savings Account, which is far less expensive and more inclusive than what we know about BHO's "plan". I would post you links to his plan but since you can't think for yourself, it would be useless to provide the info. Enjoy BHO's infomercial tonight! Dasvedanya

Why is louie and the press keeping it a secret?
 

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It's an absurd notion that Healthcare reform is in the best interest of tax paying Americans. It's pure nonsense that this unamerican notion even became an idea in the minds of policymakers.
The only way Obamacare could dramatically reduce healthcare costs is if he by issuing a "Presidential Signing Statement" allows Acorn activists to perform all future surgeries.

:lol: Don’t give him any ideas. That’s just goofy enough for him to consider and it would allow him to cross another payback of his list.
 

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Ideas, willie where are the ideas. Current healhcare cost are around 2.5 trillion annually and we cover fewer of our citizens than most civilized nations but as I said the republicans can only throw stones. Not one offering as an alternative.

The insurance lobbyist are circling and all the republicans can do is parrot what they are saying,


I guess you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I gave you plenty of ideas Punter, but you refuse to read them (can't help you there)

1) Pg 147 - Change the Tax Code

because workers don’t directly pay for their own health care,
they often lack a clear understanding of how much their coverage
actually costs. They tend to think they’re getting health insurance
for free. In fact, it isn’t free at all. They’re just paying for it
indirectly in the form of smaller paychecks.
The effect of this disconnect is insidious. Because employees think
they’re getting free coverage, they don’t shop around for the best deal.
They just take whatever plan their employers offer them. As a result,
people wind up with coverage that’s in their employer’s best interest,
not theirs. Meanwhile, insurance providers are insulated from normal
market pressures to keep customers happy and prices low.
This system is also unfair because it penalizes the unemployed
and individuals, who cannot purchase health insurance with
pre-tax dollars.
Fortunately, this is an easy problem to solve. Simply give individuals
that same tax break that companies already receive when buying
health coverage. Such a change would level the playing field

2) Pg 149 -Reduce costly government mandates and regulations

excessive state mandates
and regulations—like “guaranteed issue” and “community rating”
—drive up the cost of health care. According to the Council for
Affordable Health Insurance, mandated benefits can increase the
cost of health insurance by up to 50 percent.2
Some mandates are defensible, of course, but most aren’t. Providers
shouldn’t be required to cover treatments like massage therapy,
breast reduction, in-vitro fertilization, and hair prosthesis.
These are hardly critical components of a good health insurance
policy. But they add tremendously to the cost of coverage.
Removing needless mandates from insurance policies in the states
might not grab headlines, but such a strategy would be extremely
effective in terms of expanding coverage and lowering costs.

3) Pg 150 - Allow the purchase of insurance across state lines

State borders act as regulatory walls, denying Americans access to
health insurance plans in other states. Because state regulations
vary so widely, a standard insurance policy in one state can be
more than five times more expensive than a standard policy in
another state.

4) Expand Health Savings Accounts

An HSA is a tax-free, interest-accruing savings account that can
be used to pay for routine medical expenses. It is purchased in
tandem with an inexpensive, qualified, high-deductible insurance
policy designed to cover major health care costs. HSA holders
can spend their money tax-free on health care as they see fit,
without asking their insurance providers for permission.
If someone is generally healthy, the HSA funds build up over time
—and can eventually work just like a retirement savings plan

THERE ARE MORE IDEAS IN THE ARTICLE IF YOU WILL JUST READ IT PUNTER. HOWEVER, I'M NOT GOING TO SPOON FEED YOU THE REST OF IT SINCE I ALREADY SUPPLIED A LINK TO YOU. SOUNDS LIKE YOU'D JUST PREFER TO ARGUE ABOUT IT.
 

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Why is louie and the press keeping it a secret?

pretty sad that your big argument would be that since the press didn't tell me about an alternative to the BHO healthcare plan, then there must not be one. look up ignorant in the dictionary and let me know how that works out for you

since you're too clueless to find the information on you're own, i'll spoonfeed you (much like mrs punter will be doing very soon) the overview.

Patient-controlled Healthcare Protection

The Plan

· Every American gets a personalized Health Savings Account (HSA) that puts you in charge of your own healthcare decisions, rather than a government or insurance bureaucrat.

o Everyone in America would maintain a personal, family, household, or employer-provided HSA.

o The American government & insurance companies have invaded the sacred doctor-patient relationship. Too often, insurance companies or government bureaucracies are invisibly but dangerously present in your patient room. They limit the options doctors have for treating you, the patient.

o An HSA slams the door on those silent deniers of healthcare, leaving it to the patient and the doctor alone to choose treatment options.

o An HSA allows you, the patient, to spend money directly from your own HSA on the care you choose, rather than filtering it through premiums, profits, and taxes first. Doctors will be free to diagnose, advise, and treat in consultation with their patient. Now, treatment will be based on the patient’s actual condition, not on the insurance card’s fine print or the arbitrary decisions of a far-off bureaucrat. This initiative also puts no limit whatsoever on how much money you can save for healthcare free of taxes.

o An HSA will save you, the patients, your hard-earned money. As your HSA grows, you will have more money and can raise your deductible IF YOU WANT TO in order to directly lower premiums, saving you even more money at the end of the month. Or, you can leave your deductible where it is and save up for other medical costs. Once again, the choice is YOURS.

o Our priority is to expand access to healthcare for all Americans, so this initiative eliminates government restrictions on who can create a joint HSA. For anyone other than a married couple, the plan only requires participants to (1) live in the same household and (2) have a signed agreement dividing the HSA upon leaving the household. No government mandates. Maximum flexibility for the patient.

· With HSAs, the government gets out of the way and empowers your healthcare options, rather than limiting them. Individuals, employers, or joint households can contribute to the HSA before taxes. Plus, you have the control to spend your account on any healthcare service you and your doctor decide on.

o It’s time to end the game of denying patients the care they need. Too often, insurance companies and government programs are more focused on what coverage you can’t have than what you can have. With an HSA, you can spend your money on any healthcare-related service you need. That includes anything from over-the-counter and prescription medications, to dental care, eye care or anything else that is healthcare-related.

o Health Savings Accounts allow families to give the gift of quality health care to future generations. Your HSA grows with you and your family because it can be passed on to future generations. It’s the American way for one generation to leave something better for the next, and it should be that way for American healthcare too.

· You have the option to put your Health Savings Account to work for you if you choose. You deserve the opportunity to see your investment in your health grow over time, so that you and your family can be provided for.

o Any amount over $2,500 for a single person household or $3,500 for multi-person household may be invested which would include stable, inflation-protected federal treasury bonds so that your investment can have added growth. A separate type of Federal Treasury bond may be created in other legislation specifically for such investment. That way, as long as there is a United States,your healthcare savings will be there for you when you need it.



· Paying for your treatment is simple. And it’s all about you.

o You save your money tax-free. You receive a debit card tied to your savings. You use your card to pay for any healthcare expense you need. It’s that simple.

o No more burdensome paperwork. No more 12-round fights with insurance companies to receive the simple coverage you were promised. If you are a senior, then no more being told that Medicare doesn’t cover what you need.

o Paying for healthcare will be as simple as paying for your groceries. Just pick your product at the clearly marked price, go to the register, and swipe. This way, patients can have all the information they need to choose their doctor, their hospital, and their treatment for their individual situation.

· The current level of spending and growth in healthcare cost will bankrupt America very soon and must be stopped. Under this new proposed plan, the government continues to deliver what it has promised to patients, giving them the control, while saving billions of dollars. It is also done in a way that puts patients’ needs first and eliminates the waste, fraud, and abuse that are rampant in existing federal spending programs. The latest numbers on TAX DOLLARS spent for healthcare are for 2007. They show that in 2007, spending on Medicare grew to over $431 billion. Total Medicaid spending grew to $329.4 billion. Combined the two programs cost taxpayers $760.4 billion which is an average for every household in America of $9,200 of tax dollars. That is absurd and unsustainable.

o If you are covered today by Medicare or Medicaid or SCHIP or you are without employment, you will receive a Health Savings Account of $2,500 for a single person household or $3,500 for multi-person household to pay for your expenses. No more worrying about whether Medicare will cover your condition; now you have the power and the resources to pay for the treatment you need directly.

o On top of that, your premiums for a catastrophic healthcare policy will be paid for as well. No more worrying about whether, if the time comes, you will be able to afford the hospital stays or surgeries necessary to save your life. And considering the figures above, you can see why we are better off just putting $2,500 for a single person household or $3,500 for multi-person household in an HSA account and paying for the insurance above that, rather than paying $9,200 for every household in America.

o We must act now to curb the waste, fraud, and abuse that run rampant in our government healthcare programs. They drive up costs, drive down quality of care, and ultimately will fail to deliver what they promise.

o We simply cannot afford to keep making the same mistakes, especially when we know for a fact that in a matter of years Medicare and Medicaid simply run out of money, leaving our most vulnerable without the care they need. With Health Savings Accounts, we ensure that the money goes straight where it’s needed – on treating the patient – rather than wasted in a Washington bureaucracy.

· Ask most Americans and they will agree: the greatest fear we all have is the impossible cost of a catastrophic medical event. So Health Savings Accounts work hand-in-hand with a new approach to catastrophic insurance coverage.

o Individuals, employers, associations, or the government (for our vulnerable) can secure this top layer of coverage.

o Every American will carry a catastrophic insurance policy for expenses above their HSA. That way, if the time comes for major expenses, you are covered.

o These insurance policies will be more affordable than policies available today, because the HSA will cover smaller expenses. Insurance will do what it does best: covering you when you need it for life’s catastrophic events.


o This plan prohibits insurance companies from cherry-picking only the healthiest, youngest, and least risky Americans so that coverage will not be denied for those who need it most. For those who are deemed high risk, there will be a high risk insurance pool (just like with car insurance in many states) of which all insurance companies who wish to insure the healthy will have to insure their pro rata share.

· This plan instills transparency in the healthcare options you have, rather than allowing insurance companies and hospitals to “bill at will.”

o You deserve to know exactly what your treatment will do and EXACTLY how much it will cost. Up-front. Period.

o And you deserve to pay the same cost for the same treatment as the patient in the room next door. Period.


o This plan puts an end to the days of charging cash-paying patients quadruple or more what insurance companies pay.

· A panel of healthcare experts will be formed to constantly make sure that all costs related to healthcare are on the list of things you can swipe your HSA Debit card to pay for. You can use your eligibility based on the latest science and treatment innovations.

o Since funds from your HSA must be spent on healthcare-related items, this panel will exist ONLY to ensure that anything related to healthcare really will be covered. It will consist of healthcare experts as well as patients from across the country to ensure that if it is healthcare related, it is on the list of things for which your HSA Debit card will be accepted for payment.

· Veterans are special. So they deserve to continue to receive special benefits from the government and nation they have bravely served. This plan leaves untouched the benefits we currently provide our best and bravest.

· Those who dream of coming to live, work, and contribute in America must honor the same responsibilities as existing American citizens.

o Because the plan requires all American citizens to carry a Health Savings Account, it also requires all immigrants to America to prove they will also be part of either an employer’s migrant worker HSA, or a household HSA, or a personal one they have already obtained. Those same potential immigrants must also provide proof that they will be covered by a catastrophic insurance policy for amounts over their HSA. Without such proof, there will be no VISA issued.

· No more gatekeepers. You go to the doctor you want. If the doctor agrees, you go. No more trying to get a gatekeeper to let you go to a specialist. It is up to the specialist if that is where you want to go.

o You own and control your healthcare without government interference. You can see who you want, when you want.

· The Bottom Line is this: It’s time to put patients first. Health Savings Accounts create a genuinely patient-centered approach to healthcare, which is what Americans want, expect, and demand. No more obstacles between you and your doctor. No more denial of the treatments and cures you deserve. You choose the doctor or specialist you want to see. No insurance company, HMO, or government bureaucrat will have the power to tell you that you can’t. With Health Savings Accounts, medicine is about the patient’s needs, the doctor’s diagnosis, and nothing else.
 

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look up ignorant in the dictionary and let me know how that works out for you

actually I better show you the definition...


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nt) </P>adj. 1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

now if that's not a perfect profile of punter, I don't know what is

!~~~!
 

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Body, I am not knowledgeable enough to read that and know what is good and what is not. Thus I will leave the nuts and bolts to others.

I do know that doing nothing is not an option and heads need to get together to work it out My statements come from my perception that the republicans just want too block anything that was not written by insurance or AMA lobbyist.
 

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actually I better show you the definition...



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adj. 1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

now if that's not a perfect profile of punter, I don't know what is

!~~~!

Anyone that thinks that loony plan that you posted would work is worse that ignorant they are stupid. (one can be fixed the other is forever)
 

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Body, I am not knowledgeable enough to read that and know what is good and what is not. Thus I will leave the nuts and bolts to others.

I do know that doing nothing is not an option and heads need to get together to work it out My statements come from my perception that the republicans just want too block anything that was not written by insurance or AMA lobbyist.

I think you are knowledgeable enough. And sorry, but I don't buy your argument that Republicans just want to block anything. Most Americans, are getting bailout and excessive spending fatigue at this point. I think everyone realizes that there needs to be some change to our current system. I, along with many others, are just looking for a compromise instead of spending between $1-1.6 trillion dollars. And the link I posted has many different options so it's clear that we don't have to go down that pathway.

I never thought I'd be quoting Michael Jackson but..."can't we all just get along?"
 

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