How Critical Thinkers Lose Their Faith in God

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This is called Hoyle's Fallacy. There's a Wikipedia article about it and perhaps if you read it you will understand why that analogy fails. Where it succeeds is giving people who don't understand how evolution works a nice little one-liner to use in debates.

It's only a fallacy if you believe that something like the human brain or eye can evolve bit by bit through "mistakes" or corrupted DNA.
 
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I dont see how anyone can dispute "evolution". Its right before our eyes and very evident. Its obvious that species have evolved somewhat over time. But to what extent is the question.

I disagree. There has always been limits on what mutations can do. The evidence that one species can evolve into another is extremely stretched to say the least.

With all the millions of species supposedly evolving into other species, there should be millions of fossils out there proving it.

Dawkins even admitted in his book defending evolution "The Greatest Show on Earth" that there have been a grand total of 0 fossils found from the so-called common ancestor between man and modern chimp - and the modern chimp. Zero.

Now why would that be?
 

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I disagree. There has always been limits on what mutations can do. The evidence that one species can evolve into another is extremely stretched to say the least.

With all the millions of species supposedly evolving into other species, there should be millions of fossils out there proving it.

Dawkins even admitted in his book defending evolution "The Greatest Show on Earth" that there have been a grand total of 0 fossils found from the so-called common ancestor between man and modern chimp - and the modern chimp. Zero.

Now why would that be?

I dont disagree with you. I never said species are evolving into OTHER species. I said its obvious species have evolved somewhat. Subtle changes or "mutations" as you call them.
 
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Dawkins raves in his book about this transitional fossil called Tiktaalik, how it's a transitional form between fish and amphibians (p.161)
Dawkins is just one of many evolutionists who touted this "missing link."

Too bad it's since been proved (like so many others) now to not be a transitional form at all. Fossils have been found for the creature that it supposedly
evolved into that were older than Tiktaaliks.
 

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something of topic but has always made me wonder

most of your republicans out there are the very religious conservative types, you would think being so religious they would more be the ones for government aide and welfare programs for the poor/needy, yet they are the ones that oppose it. With how the bible teaches you to be kind and help the less fortunate, always made me scratch my head a bit.
 

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something of topic but has always made me wonder

most of your republicans out there are the very religious conservative types, you would think being so religious they would more be the ones for government aide and welfare programs for the poor/needy, yet they are the ones that oppose it. With how the bible teaches you to be kind and help the less fortunate, always made me scratch my head a bit.

1) Im not a Republican. But on the spectrum, Id probably be considered further right on most economic and social issues.

2) As Ive tried to state and explain earlier, there is a difference between religion and God. So I am not religious, but do believe in God.

3) I dont trust government. I dont trust them to do the right thing with my money. If I want to give to the poor or help other people out, I think I reserve the right to do that myself. That way I know the money is being put to good use. Are taxes necessary? Absolutely. Taxes are necessary for police, fire departments, roads, etc. The social programs supported by the far left are being taken advantage of by so many people that abuse the system that its ridiculous.
 
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something of topic but has always made me wonder

most of your republicans out there are the very religious conservative types, you would think being so religious they would more be the ones for government aide and welfare programs for the poor/needy, yet they are the ones that oppose it. With how the bible teaches you to be kind and help the less fortunate, always made me scratch my head a bit.

We believe that it's the job of the individual, civic groups, and the church to give - not the job of the federal government to be a robin hood, and steal from the workers to give to the leeches in society. The government is ALWAYS inefficient and (to a certain extent) corrupt in
all it's endeavors.

Bloomberg:
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and his wife Michelle gave $10,772 of the $1.2 million they earned from 2000 through 2004 to charities, or less than 1 percent, according to tax returns for those years released today by his campaign.
 

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The evidence that one species can evolve into another is extremely stretched to say the least.

This is simply not true. There are numerous examples, including an excellent lineage of whale fossils. I know you are against evolution because if it's true it calls your biblical worldview into question, but c'mon man you simply cannot say things that are not true and expect to get away with it.

800px-Whale_skeleton.png


That's the skeleton of a modern baleen whale that shows that whales still carry evidence of their land mammal past, a vestigial femur and pelvic bone.


With all the millions of species supposedly evolving into other species, there should be millions of fossils out there proving it.

You know not everything that dies instantly becomes a fossil, right? A very precise series of events has to occur to preserve bones for millions upon millions of years. Couple that with the facts that the Earth is kinda large and the fossils are often deep within the crust. Every time we find one fossil it's a miracle (not of the supernatural variety) and the fact that we can actually piece together complete or nearly complete lineages of animals that span tens of millions is absolutely astounding.

Dawkins even admitted in his book defending evolution "The Greatest Show on Earth" that there have been a grand total of 0 fossils found from the so-called common ancestor between man and modern chimp - and the modern chimp. Zero.

Now why would that be?

See above. The fossil might never be found, but your argument reminds me of this picture:

1323281649679-600x2836.jpg
 
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800px-Whale_skeleton.png


"Evolutionary whale expert" Philip Gingerich says that the so-called vestigal femur is actually a reproductive (sexual) clasper.
(The Press Enterprise, July 1, 1990. A-15)

I could go into much more detail about all the errors in Dawkins' book where he drools over whale evolution if you like...
 
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I'm trying to keep this discussion cordial.

I liken the Neo-Darwinist view to having say 3 pieces out of a million piece puzzle, and then they say they've
proven Universal Common Descent.


1323281649679-600x2836.jpg
 

Let's get down to brass tacks. How much for the ap
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Forget God. I never believed in the God of the bible but I definitely believed there was something beyond this world. I tried dmt last year and all that changed. I realized whatever we think about God and the universe doesn't compare to the reality. It's just too complicated and beyond anything we can imagine as human beings. It's more complicated than God and Satan and good and evil. All of these are human concepts. You guys can waste all the time you want arguing about this but all it takes is a little dmt to have direct knowledge.

would to chat with you via pm about dmt someday. Did alot of it a few years back and had the pleasure of doing it with terence mckenna before he died.
 

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Personally, I believe that it takes more faith to be an atheist than to be a theist.

The atheist "goo to you" philosophy is absolutely ludicrous.

About on par with the Old Testament claim that man was created from dirt and that women evolved from a male rib bone
 

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I believe in a higher power. But I also believe humans evolve.

You can see signs of humans evolving even over short periods of time if you look hard enough.

Just take sports for example.

The 4 minute mile.
It took man all of creation until the year 1954 before a human was able to run the mile in less then 4 mins.
Now running a 4 min mile does not even make the news.
Now a 4 min mile is almost standard for a long distance runner.

As a matter of fact, its so coman that if you cant run a mile in 4 mins a high school track runner would have a hard time even getting a scholarship.

But less then 60 years ago this was a world record. Now every high school in America practically has someone that can do it.

I think the current record right now is 3:43 which is unbelievably faster then 4:00 and its likely to be broken again maybe before I finish this post.

Have you noticed everytime the olympics come on all the world records break at an amazing rate?
Its amazing how every 4 years we see a great example on how humans somehow get faster and faster and stronger and stronger.

Look at the World records in Olympic sports from say 70 or 80 years ago.
The numbers are laughable.

If you look at all the world records back in the 30's and 40's and compare them to what people do today they are so far off that record holders from the 30's would not even be able to qualify for the Olympics, much less compete in them.


And yes I realize that training, and diet, and perhaps steroids has something to do with some of this stuff.
But the numbers are so drastic that there is no way you can give all of the credit to those thing.

I think people do not realize how small of a snapshot there 30,40,50, 90 lifespan really is in the grand scheme.


Evolution is based on millions of years.
So when people make a comment like: "Well how come people and animals are not evolving now?" really makes no sense.

I believe that you can believe in a higher power and Evolution.

I also believe that Evolutionist have many things wrong in there beliefs with many missing pieces.
I also believe that Christians have many things wrong in there beliefs with many missing pieces.
 

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And on the subject matter.

I have always been a very very critical thinker.
Has anyone besides me NEVER believed in Santa even when they were 4 years old even if they were told by there parents and friends that he is real?

I swear to everyone on this forum.

I never believed in Santa even when I was 4.
I had enough sense and critical thinking ability even then to realize that he was fake.

And believe me my parents were not the kind of parents that told me he was not real.

My parents tried to sell me on Santa just like 90% of all the other parents. I just never fell for it. It was too insane for me to believe even when I was 4 years old.

I cant be the only person who was smart enough to realize he was fake at such a young age.

Any others felt that way when they were 4?

Im not talking about you guys that had parents that did not teach Santa was real, im talking about having parents and kind folk who tried to sell the Santa is real thing.
 
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I believe in a higher power. But I also believe humans evolve.

You can see signs of humans evolving even over short periods of time if you look hard enough.

Just take sports for example.

The 4 minute mile.
It took man all of creation until the year 1954 before a human was able to run the mile in less then 4 mins.
Now running a 4 min mile does not even make the news.
Now a 4 min mile is almost standard for a long distance runner.

As a matter of fact, its so coman that if you cant run a mile in 4 mins a high school track runner would have a hard time even getting a scholarship.

But less then 60 years ago this was a world record. Now every high school in America practically has someone that can do it.

I think the current record right now is 3:43 which is unbelievably faster then 4:00 and its likely to be broken again maybe before I finish this post.

Have you noticed everytime the olympics come on all the world records break at an amazing rate?
Its amazing how every 4 years we see a great example on how humans somehow get faster and faster and stronger and stronger.

Look at the World records in Olympic sports from say 70 or 80 years ago.
The numbers are laughable.

If you look at all the world records back in the 30's and 40's and compare them to what people do today they are so far off that record holders from the 30's would not even be able to qualify for the Olympics, much less compete in them.


And yes I realize that training, and diet, and perhaps steroids has something to do with some of this stuff.
But the numbers are so drastic that there is no way you can give all of the credit to those thing.

I think people do not realize how small of a snapshot there 30,40,50, 90 lifespan really is in the grand scheme.


Evolution is based on millions of years.
So when people make a comment like: "Well how come people and animals are not evolving now?" really makes no sense.

I believe that you can believe in a higher power and Evolution.

I also believe that Evolutionist have many things wrong in there beliefs with many missing pieces.
I also believe that Christians have many things wrong in there beliefs with many missing pieces.

Just one man's opinion but I'd attribute the decrease in mile times to advances in training, diet, supplements, ... And steroids certainly factor into lots of Olympic records being broken.
 

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I also believe that the Earth is millions of years old but the Adam and Eve dispensation started around 7K years ago.
If you read the Bible very carefully it says that the EARTH was without form and void.

I believe we are in or 3rd dispensation right now.

What I mean is we are in the 3rd beginning and end.

When the Adam and Eve dispensation end's like revelation says and the the world gets destroyed by fire. Then you will have another Adam and Eve all over again.
I believe we are seeing fossils from millions of years ago from previous dispensations before Adam and Eve.

There are books about this theory, and there are verses in the Bible that hints at there being previous dispensations.
 

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something of topic but has always made me wonder

most of your republicans out there are the very religious conservative types, you would think being so religious they would more be the ones for government aide and welfare programs for the poor/needy, yet they are the ones that oppose it. With how the bible teaches you to be kind and help the less fortunate, always made me scratch my head a bit.
Bingo...It amazes me that the Dems don't bring this up more often. Republicans have lived off the abortion issue now for 40 years. Whether they believe in it or not, all they have to say is they oppose it and they've got 50 million christian voters on their side. And screw all of the other issues. It is a little ironic that less than 50 years ago my home state of Oklahoma and most of the southern states were very religious Democratic states. But when Lyndon Johnson was President, most of the southen states warned him that they would switch parties if he ever passed the Civil Right Act. He did, and it changed the demographics of both parties forever. I'm glad the bill was passed, but it changed the way people vote in a big way. I don't believe abortion or religion in general would have been near the issue today if that bill had failed to pass. Or maybe was passed at a later date.
 

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