The answer is to enforce the laws we have on the books. It's called ILLEGAL immigration for a reason. That seems to be the first place to start. Seriously does ILLEGAL mean anything anymore. California is going to crash in about 5 years and it could have been prevented, but no one has the sack to enforce the laws on the books.
It's all about the VOTE. End of story.
It's all about the VOTE. End of story.
outandup,
That's the point, laws to stop illegal immigration just waste time and resources. We have to face up to the fact that we'll never stop people from coming into the country. Here's an example of why, I have friends working in the cruise ship industry, they've told me stories many times of the groups of Cubans that get on make shift rafts and inner tubes every single day with the hopes of getting to the States. Now if they're willing to get on an inner tube and cast off into the ocean do you really think they give a damn about strict immigration laws. Of course not! It's all about how bad their life sucks where they live. That's why I say efforts would be better spent forcing them to become legal and pay taxes once they are there. Deporting a 100 a day while a 100 more a day arrive is like trying to dig a hole in the sand at the beach when the tide is coming in, it's a losing battle.
That's the point, laws to stop illegal immigration just waste time and resources. We have to face up to the fact that we'll never stop people from coming into the country. Here's an example of why, I have friends working in the cruise ship industry, they've told me stories many times of the groups of Cubans that get on make shift rafts and inner tubes every single day with the hopes of getting to the States. Now if they're willing to get on an inner tube and cast off into the ocean do you really think they give a damn about strict immigration laws. Of course not! It's all about how bad their life sucks where they live. That's why I say efforts would be better spent forcing them to become legal and pay taxes once they are there. Deporting a 100 a day while a 100 more a day arrive is like trying to dig a hole in the sand at the beach when the tide is coming in, it's a losing battle.
Kaya the answer for the flood of mexican nationals coming in from mexico illegally is to enforce the laws against the businesses that hire illegal immigrants and the problem is solved. Don't you think the crash of California is a clear sign states do not have unlimited funds and cannot afford to educate, medicate, house and feed everyone. You know there is a limit, and taxes are close to 50% for the producers. At some point raising taxes just doesn't work. People just leave the state.
Well since Grantt left is it safe to post???
What a load of lies and lack of information in this post. This is so typical, this cost and that cost. Do you think they don't put a dime into the economy or something? Do you realize that a bunch of cities pretty much survive because of the business that LEGAL Mexicans put into the local economies? Do you complain about them? Should they say "well since you aren't American, don't bother paying our sales taxes, gas taxes, booze or cigarette taxes while you are here". I mean if you want to look at it the way you do then that would be fair. But no, it doesn't work that way does it? The reason why people don't really fight illegal immigration is because no one has the guts in Washington to make any reasonable measures of legal immigration and until they do there aren't enough bodies to fill these jobs. You think the California economy is bad now, just imagine it without the immigrants, legal or not. Jobs would leave so fast the current downturn would look like a boom for the ages. And as to this backlash about medical costs, its so hideously overstated. What happens is that the state treasury makes billions of dollars off of sales taxes, property taxes, income tax made from rentals occupied by illegals, business tax from all those businesses they keep afloat. The money goes to the general fund and local municipalities who spend the money. Then the politicians look to blame a perfect group of people, those that have no right to vote or even protest for their problems. There have been plenty of studies to prove this correct, illegals require far less health care cost per capita than legals or citizens, yet you get opportunistic politicians trying to convince you that they are the root of all problems. Whatever, believe them if you want, but it would make more sense to blame these fools for creating scapegoats out of people that in almost every fair study have been proven to BENEFIT the economy of California and the nation. They would benefit the state and country even more if they were given legal status instead of this hate*****ring attempt to blame them for all problems. The same applies to legal immigrants and these foolish attempts to declare them welfare cheats. Immigrants don't get much help from welfare or the state, their contributions in tax and economic growth far outweigh what costs they supposedly inflate.
The supposed proof against immigrants is shamefully poor, I saw one report for myself and it was a joke. They tallied up the costs for every imaginable cost included "public buses to service immigrant demand". Then to try to appear "fair" they listed the revenues they caused and flat out shortchanged them by a wide margin. They made outlandish and left almost everything out except for token amounts of sales tax. And of course they took for granted the thousands of Mexicans that regularly cross the border to do their shopping and entertaining legally, leading to virtually no social costs and a bonanza of taxes that support the economies of San Diego and El Paso, among other cities. If the policies of these "close the border" types were approved these tax dollars would literally disappear. An awful high cost to California, a state that can hardly shoulder more financial troubles but that is exactly what would happen if they allowed these "get-tough" policies to be instituted.
What a load of lies and lack of information in this post. This is so typical, this cost and that cost. Do you think they don't put a dime into the economy or something? Do you realize that a bunch of cities pretty much survive because of the business that LEGAL Mexicans put into the local economies? Do you complain about them? Should they say "well since you aren't American, don't bother paying our sales taxes, gas taxes, booze or cigarette taxes while you are here". I mean if you want to look at it the way you do then that would be fair. But no, it doesn't work that way does it? The reason why people don't really fight illegal immigration is because no one has the guts in Washington to make any reasonable measures of legal immigration and until they do there aren't enough bodies to fill these jobs. You think the California economy is bad now, just imagine it without the immigrants, legal or not. Jobs would leave so fast the current downturn would look like a boom for the ages. And as to this backlash about medical costs, its so hideously overstated. What happens is that the state treasury makes billions of dollars off of sales taxes, property taxes, income tax made from rentals occupied by illegals, business tax from all those businesses they keep afloat. The money goes to the general fund and local municipalities who spend the money. Then the politicians look to blame a perfect group of people, those that have no right to vote or even protest for their problems. There have been plenty of studies to prove this correct, illegals require far less health care cost per capita than legals or citizens, yet you get opportunistic politicians trying to convince you that they are the root of all problems. Whatever, believe them if you want, but it would make more sense to blame these fools for creating scapegoats out of people that in almost every fair study have been proven to BENEFIT the economy of California and the nation. They would benefit the state and country even more if they were given legal status instead of this hate*****ring attempt to blame them for all problems. The same applies to legal immigrants and these foolish attempts to declare them welfare cheats. Immigrants don't get much help from welfare or the state, their contributions in tax and economic growth far outweigh what costs they supposedly inflate.
The supposed proof against immigrants is shamefully poor, I saw one report for myself and it was a joke. They tallied up the costs for every imaginable cost included "public buses to service immigrant demand". Then to try to appear "fair" they listed the revenues they caused and flat out shortchanged them by a wide margin. They made outlandish and left almost everything out except for token amounts of sales tax. And of course they took for granted the thousands of Mexicans that regularly cross the border to do their shopping and entertaining legally, leading to virtually no social costs and a bonanza of taxes that support the economies of San Diego and El Paso, among other cities. If the policies of these "close the border" types were approved these tax dollars would literally disappear. An awful high cost to California, a state that can hardly shoulder more financial troubles but that is exactly what would happen if they allowed these "get-tough" policies to be instituted.
America became a powerhouse fom legal and illegal immigration, and the hard work these people put into building the country.
Most of the jobs illegals do are the ones no-one would choose to do anyway.
Blaming a minority wont change the state of the economy.
Plus America has a tradition of accepting immigrants, legal or otherwise. Its one of the things that makes it strong.
Most of the jobs illegals do are the ones no-one would choose to do anyway.
Blaming a minority wont change the state of the economy.
Plus America has a tradition of accepting immigrants, legal or otherwise. Its one of the things that makes it strong.
Wildbill,
The strain on the hospitals, schools and welfare system have bankrupted California it's time to enforce the laws on the books. More of the same is not going to save California. Texas and Arizonia are next. How can illegal immigrants cross the border and sign up for welfare, it really makes no sense. Fine, California will be totally broke in 5 years and then the Califorians will finally awake from the deep sleep. The cheap labor is paid for two-fold in high taxes to pay for the government hand outs.
The strain on the hospitals, schools and welfare system have bankrupted California it's time to enforce the laws on the books. More of the same is not going to save California. Texas and Arizonia are next. How can illegal immigrants cross the border and sign up for welfare, it really makes no sense. Fine, California will be totally broke in 5 years and then the Califorians will finally awake from the deep sleep. The cheap labor is paid for two-fold in high taxes to pay for the government hand outs.
Name one country that doesn't require foreigners to have a work permit.
Tricky...because "on the books" every country requires immigrants to obtain permits to work. But "on the books" is about as realistic as thinking of ridding the world of terrorism.
Why do we allow free movement of goods (NAFTA) yet restrict the movement of people?
Tricky...because "on the books" every country requires immigrants to obtain permits to work. But "on the books" is about as realistic as thinking of ridding the world of terrorism.
Why do we allow free movement of goods (NAFTA) yet restrict the movement of people?
outandup,
I do agree that going after companies that employ illegals sounds good, especially in a humanitarian sense to protect the rights of those employees. However on the other hand I doubt you could make much more than a dent in the problem. I see it as almost like the law of supply and demand, supply cheap illegal labor, demand greedy capitalists. I mean how much could really be stopped, even U.S. citizens work under the table, hell I worked under the table cutting grass at a campground as a kid because I wasn't old enough to work legally. While companies would be easy to investigate, what about illegals working as housekeepers, nannies, in landscaping, private mechanics, etc. What I don't understand is your idea that cracking down on those companies will some how stop the influx of illegals, as I tried to explain they are motivated to enter the U.S. because of the situation in their country.
I think you're missing a couple of other points also. First of all it's not just Mexicans and it's not just California. L.A. has so many immigrants from around the world that it probably represents more countries than the U.N. Aside from that there's a latino "colony" (as the latinos call them) in basically ever major city in the U.S. I believe the estimate was that by 2005 there would be more latinos than blacks in the U.S. and if I'm not mistaken it's already happened. Finally I don't see how you can possibly blame all of Californias economic woes on Mexicans.
I do agree that going after companies that employ illegals sounds good, especially in a humanitarian sense to protect the rights of those employees. However on the other hand I doubt you could make much more than a dent in the problem. I see it as almost like the law of supply and demand, supply cheap illegal labor, demand greedy capitalists. I mean how much could really be stopped, even U.S. citizens work under the table, hell I worked under the table cutting grass at a campground as a kid because I wasn't old enough to work legally. While companies would be easy to investigate, what about illegals working as housekeepers, nannies, in landscaping, private mechanics, etc. What I don't understand is your idea that cracking down on those companies will some how stop the influx of illegals, as I tried to explain they are motivated to enter the U.S. because of the situation in their country.
I think you're missing a couple of other points also. First of all it's not just Mexicans and it's not just California. L.A. has so many immigrants from around the world that it probably represents more countries than the U.N. Aside from that there's a latino "colony" (as the latinos call them) in basically ever major city in the U.S. I believe the estimate was that by 2005 there would be more latinos than blacks in the U.S. and if I'm not mistaken it's already happened. Finally I don't see how you can possibly blame all of Californias economic woes on Mexicans.
RFCski,
The US has a right to control our borders. Obviously they are not, I don't think that can even be questioned.
Kaya,
The states are going broke and I'll the kindness in the world is not going to be able to pay for it. California will be completely broke in 5 years, Texas and Arizonia in about 10 years.
The US has a right to control our borders. Obviously they are not, I don't think that can even be questioned.
Kaya,
The states are going broke and I'll the kindness in the world is not going to be able to pay for it. California will be completely broke in 5 years, Texas and Arizonia in about 10 years.
The truth hurts.
The border states all have completely free hospitals for the mexican nationals to walk over and get free treatment and have kids.
Alot of the doctors are leaving these states because the federal gov. forces them to treat them and the mexican nationals know the racket and arrive in the masses. So this is the deal the doctors have to provide a free service and open themselves up to huge law suits if they make a honest mistake. The doctors are working with second rate staffs and strained budgets because it's all free. You can't expect doctors to work under these circumstances.
You can't expect the tax payers/producers to be taxed to death and stay, why some of you don't uderstand this is simply amazing.
The border states all have completely free hospitals for the mexican nationals to walk over and get free treatment and have kids.
Alot of the doctors are leaving these states because the federal gov. forces them to treat them and the mexican nationals know the racket and arrive in the masses. So this is the deal the doctors have to provide a free service and open themselves up to huge law suits if they make a honest mistake. The doctors are working with second rate staffs and strained budgets because it's all free. You can't expect doctors to work under these circumstances.
You can't expect the tax payers/producers to be taxed to death and stay, why some of you don't uderstand this is simply amazing.
