Healthcare is Not a Right

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Willie, the french do it. Do you think that we are dumber than the French?

Punter...

One of the worlds most respected health clinics says you are dead wrong.

I think we can all agree the Mayo Clinic knows more on the subject than you.


Looking for Supporters of the House Democrats’ Health Care Plan? Hold the Mayo - Political Punch (20 July 2009)
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...democrats-health-care-plan-hold-the-mayo.html


On the Mayo Clinic’s health care blog, the clinic’s reaction was thus:

“Although there are some positive provisions in the current House Tri-Committee bill – including insurance for all and payment reform demonstration projects – the proposed legislation misses the opportunity to help create higher-quality, more affordable health care for patients. In fact, it will do the opposite.

“In general, the proposals under discussion are not patient focused or results oriented. Lawmakers have failed to use a fundamental lever – a change in Medicare payment policy – to help drive necessary improvements in American health care. Unless legislators create payment systems that pay for good patient results at reasonable costs, the promise of transformation in American health care will wither. The real losers will be the citizens of the United States.”
 

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The current bill is a work in progress.

That has nothing at all to do with comparing our healthcare to the french.
 

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Willie, the french do it. Do you think that we are dumber than the French?

oh yes, the Frenchies

where 15,000 people died in one heat wave

where the average worker pays 20% in payroll taxes into their social system, we pay 7.65% (ask Americans if they want a 12.35% tax hike across the boards)

patients pay the full bill when service is rendered, then reimbursed about 70% of the cost. because of this cost, many people buy their own supplemental insurance

the system's deficit is approximately 6 billion annually, which means something has got to give

unlike every other social system in the world, they have no wait times.

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now give them some of our demographics, such as obesity and drug abuse, mix in Detroit, Houston & New Orleans and sprinkle with 20 million illegal aliens, then tell us how their system works. LOL

don't forget that 12.35% across the boards tax increase :103631605

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http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-health/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=197
 

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Your answer was not unexpected. It's easier to parrot talking points without actually considering the earth might be round.

You know, you’re a real mutt. Asking me to do something I don’t care about. Here’s another answer that shouldn’t be unexpected. If you’re so curious, all bickering aside, why don’t you make the calls and report back incase someone other than myself actually cares.
 

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oh yes, the Frenchies

where 15,000 people died in one heat wave

where the average worker pays 20% in payroll taxes into their social system, we pay 7.65% (ask Americans if they want a 12.35% tax hike across the boards)

patients pay the full bill when service is rendered, then reimbursed about 70% of the cost. because of this cost, many people buy their own supplemental insurance

the system's deficit is approximately 6 billion annually, which means something has got to give

unlike every other social system in the world, they have no wait times.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

now give them some of our demographics, such as obesity and drug abuse, mix in Detroit, Houston & New Orleans and sprinkle with 20 million illegal aliens, then tell us how their system works. LOL

don't forget that 12.35% across the boards tax increase :103631605

--------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.frenchentree.com/fe-health/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=197


They talk funny also. Now what does all that have to do with healthcare?
 

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They talk funny also. Now what does all that have to do with healthcare?

their speech? nothing but that's just Punter being Punter

my post about the French Healthcare system? why it has everything to do with the French healthcare system

the deaths, the costs, the benefits

try to keep up, the discussion is not just about doctor visits y'know
 

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Death, cost, benefits. Taking all into consideration our healthcare ranks 15th in the world but it ranks number one in cost.

Now you republicans may think that is a bargain but remember that you republicans got voted out of office because you have no conception of what the real world is all about.
 

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The current bill is a work in progress.

That has nothing at all to do with comparing our healthcare to the french.

You are finally right about something...thanks for admitting it.

Our health care has nothing to do with supposed costs of French health care.

<><>
 

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straw man Punter, a small minority considered healthcare the dominate issue, and certainly healthcare was given very little attention during the election season.

however, we do know that Democrats were literally run out of town the last time they tried to implement a bureaucracy burdened healthcare system, including the only defeat of the Speaker in our history. doesn't appear the current takeover is trending too well either.

the 2008 issue was the economy, with the credit collapse timed perfectly for Obama. Of course, he's proven to be less than capable in recognizing and addressing that situation. After that, the war wore people out.

America did not vote for Obama's extreme left wing looneyism, something you're sure to realize in 2010. not even the enablers are keeping his numbers from an historic freefall.
 

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Healthcare is a Good, Not a Right


Political philosopher Richard Weaver famously and correctly stated that ideas have consequences. Take for example ideas about rights versus goods. Natural law states that people have rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A good is something you work for and earn. It might be a need, like food, but more “goods” seem to be becoming “rights” in our culture, and this has troubling consequences. It might seem harmless enough to decide that people have a right to things like education, employment, housing or healthcare. But if we look a little further into the consequences, we can see that the workings of the community and economy are thrown wildly off balance when people accept those ideas.
First of all, other people must pay for things like healthcare. Those people have bills to pay and families to support, just as you do. If there is a “right” to healthcare, you must force the providers of those goods, or others, to serve you.
Obviously, if healthcare providers were suddenly considered outright slaves to healthcare consumers, our medical schools would quickly empty. As the government continues to convince us that healthcare is a right instead of a good, it also very generously agrees to step in as middle man. Politicians can be very good at making it sound as if healthcare will be free for everybody. Nothing could be further from the truth. The administration doesn’t want you to think too much about how hospitals will be funded, or how you will somehow get something for nothing in the healthcare arena. We are asked to just trust the politicians. Somehow it will all work out.
Universal Healthcare never quite works out the way the people are led to believe before implementing it. Citizens in countries with nationalized healthcare never would have accepted this system had they known upfront about the rationing of care and the long lines.
As bureaucrats take over medicine, costs go up and quality goes down because doctors spend more and more of their time on paperwork and less time helping patients. As costs skyrocket, as they always do when inefficient bureaucrats take the reins, government will need to confiscate more and more money from an already foundering economy to somehow pay the bills. As we have seen many times, the more money and power that government has, the more power it will abuse. The frightening aspect of all this is that cutting costs, which they will inevitably do, could very well mean denying vital services. And since participation will be mandatory, no legal alternatives will be available.
The government will be paying the bills, forcing doctors and hospitals to dance more and more to the government’s tune. Having to subject our health to this bureaucratic insanity and mismanagement is possibly the biggest danger we face. The great irony is that in turning the good of healthcare into a right, your life and liberty are put in jeopardy.
Instead of further removing healthcare from the market, we should return to a true free market in healthcare, one that empowers individuals, not bureaucrats, with control of healthcare dollars. My bill HR 1495 the Comprehensive Healthcare Reform Act provides tax credits and medical savings accounts designed to do just that.


Posted by Ron Paul 07-20-2009
 

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Maybe Ron Paul should campaign for president.

He should win the republican nomination easy. Right?
 

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Be careful of the semantics the politicians, both GOP and Dems, are using to make the case for/against Obamacare.

Nobody in the United States is denied Healthcare. They may not have Health Insurance, but everyone has access to Healthcare. Just go to the emergency room and they have to treat you.

When the politicians use the term Healthcare interchanged with Health Insurance, they are trying to confuse the public.
 

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Thats wonderful all the people that had to come to my wife to file bankrupcy over medical bills just didn't know how lucky they were.
 

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If after reading this article you still think the health care bill is a good thing, god help you.

The Heritage Foundation

With the public’s trust in his handling of health care tanking (50%-44% of Americans disapprove), the White House has launched a new phase of its strategy designed to pass Obamacare: all Obama, all the time. As part of that effort, Obama hosted a conference call with leftist bloggers urging them to pressure Congress to pass his health plan as soon as possible.

During the call, a blogger from Maine said he kept running into an Investors Business Daily article that claimed Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance. He asked: “Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?” President Obama replied: “You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.”

This is a truly disturbing admission by the President, especially considering that later in the call, Obama promises yet again: “If you have health insurance, and you like it, and you have a doctor that you like, then you can keep it. Period.” How can Obama keep making this promise if he is not familiar with the health legislation that is being written in Congress? Details matter.

We are familiar with the passage IBD sites, and as we wrote last week, the House bill does not outright outlaw private individual health insurance, but it does effectively regulate it out of existence.

The House bill does allow private insurance to be sold, but only “Exchange-participating health benefits plans.” In order to qualify as an “Exchange-participating health benefits plan,” all health insurance plans must conform to a slew of new regulations, including community rating and guaranteed issue. These will all send the cost of private individual health insurance skyrocketing. Furthermore, all these new regulations would not apply just to individual insurance plans, but to all insurance plans. So the House bill will also drive up the cost of your existing employer coverage as well. Until, of course, it becomes so expensive that your company makes the perfectly economical decision to dump you into the government plan.

President Obama may not care to study how many people will lose their current health insurance if his plan becomes law, but like most Americans, we do. That is why we partnered with the Lewin Group to study how many Americans would be forced into the government “option” under the House health plan. Here is what we found:

Approximately 103 million people would be covered under the new public plan and, as a consequence, about 83.4 million people would lose their private insurance. This would represent a 48.4 percent reduction in the number of people with private coverage.

About 88.1 million workers would see their current private, employer-sponsored health plan go away and would be shifted to the public plan.

Yearly premiums for the typical American with private coverage could go up by as much as $460 per privately-insured person, as a result of increased cost-shifting stemming from a public plan modeled on Medicare.

It is truly frightening that the President of the United States is pressuring Congress in an all-out media blitz to pass legislation that he flatly admits he has not read and is not familiar with.

President Obama owes it to the American people to stop making promises about what his health plan will or will not do until he has read it, and can properly defend it in public, to his own supporters.

:cripwalk:
 

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There is enough bullshit in that little letter to stink up all of Nevada.
 

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Yo, Punter, bullshit huh? Well guess who agrees with you? None other than the Big O.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said in an interview aired on Tuesday that healthcare reform bills needed more work, but he was optimistic that the final legislation would drive down costs over the long-term.

Asked in an NBC "Today" interview whether he would sign any of the legislation being considered in Congress, Obama replied: "Right now, they're not where they need to be."

Obama has been pressing Congress to approve healthcare legislation, a centerpiece of his domestic agenda, before the August recess.

"I am deeply invested in getting this thing done," Obama said.

"This isn't Washington sport, this isn't about who's up and who's down. This is about solving an enormous problem for the American people," he said.

Now there’s some real bullshit. ~~:<<
 

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Thanks for the above post. The attitude expressed in that New Testament scripture is the prevailing motivation for my own belief that we collectively pool our efforts to help assure that as many of our fellow Americans receive needed health care and assistance as is possible.



Nobody is stopping you, get on the phone call your lefty friends and pool your money together and go give it away to the poor. Just don't force me to.
 

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Nobody is stopping you, get on the phone call your lefty friends and pool your money together and go give it away to the poor. Just don't force me to.

No one is forcing you to do anything.
 

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