Healthcare is Not a Right

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yes, and ignore the fact that 85% of Americans are happy with their healthcare.

ignore the fact that anything put on the table to date increases healthcare costs and increases the federal deficit according to the CBO

ignore the fact that we have healthcare on demand, unlike any other country

KTV posts one story about a person dying from neglect, while ignoring the fact that there are significantly more such stories from countries that have socialized medicine and a fraction of our population

KTV links a story of an interview with a former insurance executive, once again there are scores more complaints from professionals within socialized medicine countries (found in the links I provided)

also ignore the fact that healthcare professionals in this country oppose socialized medicine because of restrictions & waits & healthcare decisions being made by politicians as opposed to healthcare professionals. Of coursem the loonies simply dismiss such arguments as being influenced by greed (one of their favorite bailouts).

WOW

Are the 50 million uninsured Americans included in your dubious poll? How about those denied coverage? Or those denied treatment because its considered by an insurance CEO to be experimental?
 

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It's easy to get caught up in the rhetoric and even to become an apologist for the industry as Willie demonstrates.

I encourage anyone to watch the following interview with a former Cigna executive. This isn't a Michael Moore type "Sicko" movie - it's just an interview with a former insider.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

I saw that when it aired on PBS, very good. I would urge everyone to watch it.
 

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:lol: Colorful drawl you have there. Not much talk of BO here but Reid is certainly sucking ass.

yeah, saw where he was trailing by 10 points in latest polling. that might be why he's not so outspoken as he was during the iraq debate when he knew the opinions were in his favor. now he's like "we're going to put our heads together and try to work it out"...
 

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Are the 50 million uninsured Americans included in your dubious poll? How about those denied coverage? Or those denied treatment because its considered by an insurance CEO to be experimental?

:grandmais

The number of the uninsured who aren’t citizens is nearly 10 million on its own, invalidating all the claims of 40+ million “Americans” without health insurance.

There are 8.3 million uninsured people who make between $50,000 and $74,999 per year and 8.74 million who make more than $75,000 a year. That’s roughly 17 million people who ought to be able to “afford” health insurance because they make substantially more than the median household income of $46,326.

Subtracting non-citizens and those who can afford their own insurance but choose not to purchase it, about 20 million people are left – less than 7 percent of the population.

So what is the true extent of the uninsured “crisis?” The Kaiser Family Foundation, a liberal non-profit frequently quoted by the media, puts the number of uninsured Americans who do not qualify for current government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 13.9 million and 8.2 million. That is a much smaller figure than the media report.

Kaiser’s 8.2 million figure for the chronically uninsured only includes those uninsured for two years or more. It is also worth noting, that, 45 percent of uninsured people will be uninsured for less than four months according to the Congressional Budget Office.
 

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yeah, saw where he was trailing by 10 points in latest polling. that might be why he's not so outspoken as he was during the iraq debate when he knew the opinions were in his favor. now he's like "we're going to put our heads together and try to work it out"...

He hooked himself to the Pelosi bandwagon...

Dumb move.
 

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:grandmais

The number of the uninsured who aren’t citizens is nearly 10 million on its own, invalidating all the claims of 40+ million “Americans” without health insurance.

There are 8.3 million uninsured people who make between $50,000 and $74,999 per year and 8.74 million who make more than $75,000 a year. That’s roughly 17 million people who ought to be able to “afford” health insurance because they make substantially more than the median household income of $46,326.

Subtracting non-citizens and those who can afford their own insurance but choose not to purchase it, about 20 million people are left – less than 7 percent of the population.

So what is the true extent of the uninsured “crisis?” The Kaiser Family Foundation, a liberal non-profit frequently quoted by the media, puts the number of uninsured Americans who do not qualify for current government programs and make less than $50,000 a year between 13.9 million and 8.2 million. That is a much smaller figure than the media report.

Kaiser’s 8.2 million figure for the chronically uninsured only includes those uninsured for two years or more. It is also worth noting, that, 45 percent of uninsured people will be uninsured for less than four months according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Same question I ask Willie, why should we the people pay for insurance for all the people that the insurance companies wont insure and leave the profitable business to them?

The govt is already in the insurance business, why not go after the profitable business?
 

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Willie I agree the elderly here recive excellent healthcare. My wife and I are elderly and we will testify, however it has nothing to do with free market capitalism. We are on medicare, if it were up to capitalism we would not have health insurance. (well, I would because of veterans benefits)

How long do you think that medicare should keep covering for the private insurance companies while they cherrypick the profitable clients?

the elderly have excellent health care here, not in countries with socialized medicine. Remember, you want what they have.

As far as the holes in our system, fill them in. That doesn't mean put a bunch of elected politicians in a room for 48 hours and think they can write the perfect health care system. It doesn't mean throw the baby out with the bath water (all though that may be a bad analogy to use with liberals in this country), that doesn't mean implement a program that increases healthcare costs and increases the deficit and foolishly argue that it "saves money".
 

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Same question I ask Willie, why should we the people pay for insurance for all the people that the insurance companies wont insure and leave the profitable business to them?

The govt is already in the insurance business, why not go after the profitable business?

:ohno: Man, you are obstinate. When confronted with facts you merely shuck and jive and ask another question. ^<<^
 

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:ohno: Man, you are obstinate. When confronted with facts you merely shuck and jive and ask another question. ^<<^

You are older, do you use medicare or are you able to maintain commercial insurance? Or is that a question that I cannot ask?
 

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You are older, do you use medicare or are you able to maintain commercial insurance? Or is that a question that I cannot ask?

I collect SS, my wife still works. I’m insured under her health plan.
 

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the elderly have excellent health care here, not in countries with socialized medicine. Remember, you want what they have.

As far as the holes in our system, fill them in. That doesn't mean put a bunch of elected politicians in a room for 48 hours and think they can write the perfect health care system. It doesn't mean throw the baby out with the bath water (all though that may be a bad analogy to use with liberals in this country), that doesn't mean implement a program that increases healthcare costs and increases the deficit and foolishly argue that it "saves money".

huh? Canada does not provide 'excellent' health care for its elderly? what is your definition of 'excellent'?

what is your experience with geriatric Canadian healthcare? If none, can you provide specific evidence of Canada's 'lack of excellent' healthcare for its elderly. Is the problem country wide? or on a provincial level?

thks
 

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citing scriptures, but only scriptures you like

when citing scriptures, only apply them to situations you choose

Of course.

Why in the world would I cite scriptures with which I find the philosophy disagreeable?

For example, I would never cite many of the Old Testament scriptures which mandate we kill those who disrespect their parents or who don't give the proper offering at the temple.
 

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I'm not sure what the correct solution is, it just pains me to think we couuld be on the hook for all the reckless ones.

Well as I noted in the post which you Quoted, "we" will be on the hook for those moments when you are reckless.

And others will be on the hook for those moments when "I" might be reckless.

Rather than trying to keep a literally impossible scoring system of who's reckless disqualifies them, I believe we as a society have conceded that we would rather assist as many as possible because at any given moment, the "slacker" could be one of us or someone about who we care very deeply.
 

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there's a story where they catch a guy in the fields collecting sticks. they take him back, put him on trial before the elders, and he is sentenced to death by stoning. his crime? he was caught working on the Sabbath.
 

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I collect SS, my wife still works. I’m insured under her health plan.

Respectfully, how do you anticipate paying for needed health care when you are no longer covered by such a plan (ie...when she is no longer employed)?


I'm slightly diverting the Topic with that question because I am sincerely curious watching our peers currently age 50+ respond to that challenge. And it of course causes me to scratch my own chin trying to envision how my wife and I might handle the question in say, 15 years when I'm 64 and she's 60.
 

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there's a story where they catch a guy in the fields collecting sticks. they take him back, put him on trial before the elders, and he is sentenced to death by stoning. his crime? he was caught working on the Sabbath.

heh...yeah...I'm probably not endorsing that we as a collective enact that policy. A fine example of a portion of the Holy Bible with which few of us would raise as suitable behavior, either individually or for the collective.
 

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Respectfully, how do you anticipate paying for needed health care when you are no longer covered by such a plan (ie...when she is no longer employed)?


I'm slightly diverting the Topic with that question because I am sincerely curious watching our peers currently age 50+ respond to that challenge. And it of course causes me to scratch my own chin trying to envision how my wife and I might handle the question in say, 15 years when I'm 64 and she's 60.

My wife has said she wants to work till 65. That’s 6 years in the future and by then BO will be just a bad memory. I’ll do what ever other senior does, Medicare/ Medicaid with a supplemental. It seems to work for them, it will work for me. If it becomes insolvent by 2020 as many predict, I am confident the private sector will solve the problem.
 

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My wife has said she wants to work till 65. That’s 6 years in the future and by then BO will be just a bad memory. I’ll do what ever other senior does, Medicare/ Medicaid with a supplemental. It seems to work for them, it will work for me. If it becomes insolvent by 2020 as many predict, I am confident the private sector will solve the problem.

Not Medicaid if you have any heirs. Depends on the state but usually $2000 is the cap on your net worth to be eligible.

Medicare, however, is the best healh insurance I have ever had.
 

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Not Medicaid if you have any heirs. Depends on the state but usually $2000 is the cap on your net worth to be eligible.

Medicare, however, is the best healh insurance I have ever had.

I’ll admit that I don’t know the difference between Medicare/Medicaid. I do know that there is a gap that requires a supplement. I suppose I will figure it out when the time comes.

Your statement that, Medicare, however, is the best health insurance I have ever had is encouraging.
 

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