Celtics +900

[Avocado33]

Intangibles not as much a factor in Cleveland to be fair though agree they’re important

By all accounts he was a great teammate in Cleveland before and during LeBron

I think Kyrie didn’t get as much credit as he deserved for the title after making Curry his bitch over 7 games, so maybe he started to grow salty.

Obvipusly things changed for him as wel in his family life. Who knows if it rattled him a way/made him snap a little

 

[PatsFan1283]

Lol he got tons of credit for that series, he’s basically been living on it for 6 years. He was considered 1 of the best in the league after that.

The reason all his on/off court deficiencies didn’t matter much then is because the east was a joke then. The 2nd best player in the conference was Paul George on an undermanned pacers team. The Cavs had a huge margin for error playing in the east then, if they had to play more competitive series before the finals (say vs western conference teams) then perhaps some of his flaws would’ve been exposed in the playoffs earlier. ‘14-17ish was the nadir for the east.

They made the 2018 finals after basically giving him away for nothing. If you’re a top tier player the teams that get rid of you are supposed to get significantly worse, not slightly worse (Cavs) or better (Celtics), that’s pretty telling that his intrinsic value just isn’t as high as you think it is

 

[Avocado33]

Lol he got tons of credit for that series, he’s basically been living on it for 6 years. He was considered 1 of the best in the league after that.

The reason all his on/off court deficiencies didn’t matter much then is because the east was a joke then. The 2nd best player in the conference was Paul George on an undermanned pacers team. The Cavs had a huge margin for error playing in the east then, if they had to play more competitive series before the finals (say vs western conference teams) then perhaps some of his flaws would’ve been exposed in the playoffs earlier. ‘14-17ish was the nadir for the east.

They made the 2018 finals after basically giving him away for nothing. If you’re a top tier player the teams that get rid of you are supposed to get significantly worse, not slightly worse (Cavs) or better (Celtics), that’s pretty telling that his intrinsic value just isn’t as high as you think it is

I don’t think he got enough credit. He had Finals MVP caliber series — only didn’t get it because lebron The obsession over the chase down block on Iggy that still goes on overshadows not only Kyrie’s shot but also the fact that he 100% sonned the unanimous MVP. LeBron is all my fellow Cavs folks talked about

Gap between conferences in that time frame not as wide as you make it out to be. Paul George the second best player in the conference? Lol ok

Cavs got rid of him because they had no choice. And not like I expected Cavs front office to make wise decisions given it’s historically one of the worst in pro sports

Cavs got to the finals in 2018 because LeBron went on probably the greatest playoff run in NBA history. Ironically Kyrie being injured for Boston possibly aided that. That historic Boston Brick Party could’ve been avoided if the Celtics had Someone who could, you know, SCORE.

And let’s not forget it was Kyrie who didn’t wanna play for Boston, not the other way around

You make some good points as always but reality is you’ve always underrated Kyrie. Brushing someone off as a “top 30 player” who can score 27+ ppg on those kind of shooting splits with another big time mouth to feed is pretty comical.

find it hard to believe your green blood doesn’t play any factor in it but I guess I’ll take your word for it

 

[PatsFan1283]

He just got in a situation where the results were a little noisy. Had a great series against 1 of the best teams of the modern era in 1 of the most hyped/competitive finals. Then besides that anytime the Cavs lost he was either injured (2015) or on the clearly inferior team so hard to critique too much (2017)

Besides that, pretty much all of the teams lebron played in the east those years he could’ve beaten with a league avg PG over Irving. So just was a situation he was never able to be seen with his make-up off.

You can’t take his 2016 finals from him, but that was likely a peak with the help of great circumstance. Nothing approaching it since and it’s been a minute.

He doesn’t suck, he’s not a never was. nets should just try to avoid Celtics in future years. For the sake of his mental health. That’s important.

 

[PatsFan1283]

The gap between conferences in that time frame was massive.

George pretty easily the best east player not on the Cavs during that run. Irving was hurt a lot of the 2015 east playoffs and Cavs still won.

The best teams were in the west, that’s when you know someone has gone too far down the Irving (and lebron) rabbit hole. When they can’t admit the east had no other teams then that would true contenders.

also Lol at lebron only got mvp because of chase down block. LeBron got mvp because he was way more valuable/important to the team. Wtf?

It is the other way around, if anything people tried to ding lebron that Irving hit 1 of the most iconic shots in nba history and not him in what was supposed to be his career defining achievement.

 

[Avocado33]

He doesn’t suck, he’s not a never was. nets should just try to avoid Celtics in future years. For the sake of his mental health. That’s important.

There you go

 

[Avocado33]

The gap between conferences in that time frame was massive.

George pretty easily the best east player not on the Cavs during that run. Irving was hurt a lot of the 2015 east playoffs and Cavs still won.

The best teams were in the west, that’s when you know someone has gone too far down the Irving (and lebron) rabbit hole. When they can’t admit the east had no other teams then that would true contenders.

also Lol at lebron only got mvp because of chase down block. LeBron got mvp because he was way more valuable/important to the team. Wtf?

It is the other way around, if anything people tried to ding lebron that Irving hit 1 of the most iconic shots in nba history and not him in what was supposed to be his career defining achievement.

Wtf? When did I say LeBron got mvp cuz of that chase down block?

I was saying that play has been beat to a pulp whereas arguably more important play was the dagger Kyrie hit — which has not gotten nearly as much coverage. LeBron got mvp cuz he was a god, like I said, and he deserved it . Kyrie played good enough to win a finals mvp was my point

 

[Willie99]

Cryrie sucks, Cryrie sucks, Cryrie sucks

C's fans know this

They sent him home without breaking a sweat

4-0

Furgetaboutit

And pound the C's tonight

 

[PatsFan1283]

I dunno who is beating it to a pulp but I’d definitely say most remember Irving’s shot way more than that play, although that’s kinda irrelevant.

Hes lived off that shot/series for awhile

if he’s so good offensively, why do you think he’s been terrible in the playoff series he’s played against what we would consider high end teams ever since? It’s a smaller size of 2 but don’t think it’s exactly variance, he has limitations against the best defenses. Most (basically all) 6’1 guys do

 

[Avocado33]

The only contender aside from Warriors/Cavs those years was the Thunder in 2016. Spurs that year were the ultimate reg season, overachieving team that was bound to get cooked by the Dubs or Thunder.

West was deeper but it wasn’t like Cavs weren’t at minimum the second best team regardless

 

[Avocado33]

You must not watch much mainstream coverage then (probs for the best) if you think Kyrie’s shot is played anywhere near the amount Lebron’s block is. It’s not close

But like I originally said I thought LeBron deserved Finals MVP. Kyrie was also just magnificent

 

[PatsFan1283]

The only contender aside from Warriors/Cavs those years was the Thunder in 2016. Spurs that year were the ultimate reg season, overachieving team that was bound to get cooked by the Dubs or Thunder.

West was deeper but it wasn’t like Cavs weren’t at minimum the second best team regardless

No one said they weren’t elite (although that is some revisionist history on Spurs, they were a contender but w/e) but you play good teams rd 2-3, that’s a lot more of a grind than playing the hawks or raptors or IT Celtics. Clippers healthy better than anyone in the east any of those years. This part of the debate should be universal agreement.

Easier to comeback year after year sustainably with that road.

 

[PatsFan1283]

You must not watch much mainstream coverage then (probs for the best) if you think Kyrie’s shot is played anywhere near the amount Lebron’s block is. It’s not close

But like I originally said I thought LeBron deserved Finals MVP. Kyrie was also just magnificent

Perhaps because lebron is lebron and Irving is Irving

but relative to who they are, I do think he got tons of credit for it. LeBron is the most polarizing athlete ever, obviously many liked pointing out Kyrie hit the big shot. Pumping up his teammates at the expense of his own greatness.

Like right now, there are a million things you can say about lebron a playoff resume. For Kyrie, that’s pretty much what he’s been eating off for a long time.

 

[Avocado33]

It may be minimal to live off 2016 but reality is a lot of players who are better than him would kill to have that. You can say “that’s it for him”, but that’s a pretty bit “it.”

Hell it’s Lebron’s peak achievement too, to but it in perspective

 

[PatsFan1283]

But when we’re measuring him today and post-Cavs, it is relevant to point out it was 6 years ago in an ideal situation and hasn’t come close to duplicating it s

I’m not his therapist trying to pump him up, just sum up his career and strengths/weaknesses as a player

Why do you think he’s been so terrible against Boston and Milwaukee in his own 2 full series healthy since then? You think he ran bad?

 

[Avocado33]

But when we’re measuring him today and post-Cavs, it is relevant to point out it was 6 years ago in an ideal situation and hasn’t come close to duplicating it s

I’m not his therapist trying to pump him up, just sum up his career and strengths/weaknesses as a player

Why do you think he’s been so terrible against Boston and Milwaukee in his own 2 full series healthy since then? You think he ran bad?

I thin

But when we’re measuring him today and post-Cavs, it is relevant to point out it was 6 years ago in an ideal situation and hasn’t come close to duplicating it s

I’m not his therapist trying to pump him up, just sum up his career and strengths/weaknesses as a player

Why do you think he’s been so terrible against Boston and Milwaukee in his own 2 full series healthy since then? You think he ran bad?

I think he had a couple bad series. I didn’t love match ups for him but running bad definitely major part of it.

If you are selecting a 2019 and 2022 series, why would you ignore him playing pretty well against the Celtics last year then playing alrigh against the Bucks before game 4 injury though? Pretty sure he was healthy for Celtics series last year

 

[Avocado33]

If you measured Kyrie today purely off his on court ability , he’s a pretty outstanding player that a lot of teams would go after

More risky for intangibles

 

[PatsFan1283]

An injury depleted 7 seed that was barely over .500? Cmon bro, that’s laughable. The nets averaged like 125ppg in that. Celts were like -2 at home in the play-in vs the wizards lol, team sucked

You got a better point w the bucks but he only played 3 games, perhaps he was on his way, we’ll never know.

I don’t think he ran bad in ‘19 vs bucks or ‘22 vs celts. I think he got greatly limited/owned vs top tier defense because of his deficiencies as a player, that’s the difference.

Didn’t love matchups for him? You said the nets were going to beat the Celts, we all lose bets but I have a hard time believing you didn’t like the matchup for him if you thought the nets were going to win.

 

[Avocado33]

An injury depleted 7 seed that was barely over .500? Cmon bro, that’s laughable. The nets averaged like 125ppg in that. Celts were like -2 at home in the play-in vs the wizards lol, team sucked

You got a better point w the bucks but he only played 3 games, perhaps he was on his way, we’ll never know.

I don’t think he ran bad in ‘19 vs bucks or ‘22 vs celts. I think he got greatly limited/owned vs top tier defense because of his deficiencies as a player, that’s the difference.

Didn’t love matchups for him? You said the nets were going to beat the Celts, we all lose bets but I have a hard time believing you didn’t like the matchup for him if you thought the nets were going to win.

What? You said last two series when fully healthy? I assumed you meant Kyrie fully healthy

He was playing fine against the Bucks last year for 3.5 games but yeah we'll never know. Remember didn't have Harden besides like the first minute of Game 1 I believe.

And yeah I didn't like how Kyrie matched up with Boston's back court this season, but picked Nets nevertheless. Thought they could overcome it.

 

[PatsFan1283]

Yeah when fully healthy against top tier teams. Those are the last 2 times. Anyone could’ve given the Celts buckets last year, they were like 22nd in D, something brutal.

This wouldn’t include the 2021 Celtics or even the 2018 pacers in rd 1 These were joke teams (the pacers didn’t have oladipo in this series fwiw)