Why would that be the emotional side?
Celts swept him in the first round, doesn't get much more emphatic than that. I mean he's a top 25-30 player when he's playing, I guess. He has useful skills on the right team if he's totally plugged in. Which is kinda an oxymoron at this point.
Not sure why I would rate him higher than that. Didn't do much elite scoring vs Bucks in '19 or Celtics in '22....That's the last 2 series against top tier teams he's played.
I agree in 2016-2017 he was closer to a top 15 player. But lot more good players now I'd say. And obviously his stock has faded since.
Yeah, top 25-30 sounds right
There are guys in the league that have much tougher climbs than him because they aren't playing next to Durant or previously LeBron. So he gets to look better/more efficient than them on a Tuesday night in February.
When you say "ahh well it didn't work out well for the Celtics, bad fit"
Why do you think that is? The bad fit was Kyrie Irving being the best player on the team, was no other bad fit. Rest of team was all good defensive players who can score.....That's a primo setup for a scoring guard.
You can't just ignore he has probably the worst intangibles of all these guys either. He doesn't even play but I'm trying to ignore that small, tiny part (kindof a big deal) but it is hard to not factor that in
There are guys in the league that have much tougher climbs than him because they aren't playing next to Durant or previously LeBron. So he gets to look better/more efficient than them on a Tuesday night in February.
When you say "ahh well it didn't work out well for the Celtics, bad fit"
Why do you think that is? The bad fit was Kyrie Irving being the best player on the team, was no other bad fit. Rest of team was all good defensive players who can score.....That's a primo setup for a scoring guard.
You can't just ignore he has probably the worst intangibles of all these guys either. He doesn't even play but I'm trying to ignore that small, tiny part (kindof a big deal) but it is hard to not factor that in
Wade '11-13 and Kyrie '15-17 really isn't that close either
Even if he was starting to fade in '13, he was one of the best players in the league the first 2 years. But that is kinda nitpicking, still I think you would have to pretty definitively say he was better. Unfortunately for him, LeBron in the 2011 finals, not so much.
If he was locked in and ready to play, he would be good but when you're saying he was a better teammate for LeBron than Wade, that is where the overrated part obviously comes in. That's too much smoke for him, kinda like the Celtics this year.
Even if he was starting to fade in '13, he was one of the best players in the league the first 2 years. But that is kinda nitpicking, still I think you would have to pretty definitively say he was better. Unfortunately for him, LeBron in the 2011 finals, not so much.
If he was locked in and ready to play, he would be good but when you're saying he was a better teammate for LeBron than Wade, that is where the overrated part obviously comes in. That's too much smoke for him, kinda like the Celtics this year.
The Nets are starting to play hardball with him even, recognizing his leverage in free agency just really isn't there. My guess is they will still pay him since they're pot committed with Durant but seems like they want to draw a line at the antics, get a more favorable deal
nypost.com
Sean Marks sends clear message to Kyrie Irving about Nets future
After the Nets got swept by the Celtics in the first round of the NBA playoffs in a season in which Irving’s frequent absences made him somewhat of a villain, Marks was asked if he is committed lon…
nypost.com
Wade was nowhere near "one of the best players in the NBA" LeBron's second year in Miami. A 22ppg scorer who couldn't shoot 3's in 2012 as a two-guard, who didn't really play-make for others at that stage? Yeah fuck that, that's complete bullshit.
Wade and LeBron were not this ideal match like so many think they were. Their games overlapped in a lot of ways. Best current comparison of misfit starts would be something like Kawhi/PG, though obviously higher octane than that.
Kyrie on the other hand was a great complimentary piece to LeBron. The most underrated aspect of Kyrie's game is his shooting from distance. His ability to do that is what allowed him to compliment LeBron well more than anything. He stylistically was a much a better running mate to LeBron, a big reason why I think he was the better fit
The stronger argument for Wade is the defensive component.
If we are talking career achievements, then yeah oh course Wade > Irving
Wade BPM in 2012 was 7.9, Irving’s entire 3 year run was 9.8 with cavs. Pretty much all the advanced stats are in his favor.
It was a shortened year, you can debate how good he was but clearly he was still pretty good.
Game changed a lot between 2012 and 2017, scoring was lower in general. So you can’t just compare raw stats
Almost everyone shoots better now so offenses in general “fit” better now. LeBron himself shoots way better now.
It was a shortened year, you can debate how good he was but clearly he was still pretty good.
Game changed a lot between 2012 and 2017, scoring was lower in general. So you can’t just compare raw stats
Almost everyone shoots better now so offenses in general “fit” better now. LeBron himself shoots way better now.
It's true that players get an opportunity to look more efficient nexts to generational talent like Durant, but how often do you see guys still be able to score at that kind of volume? 27 points per game is year in/year out top 10-level scorer in the league, which is pretty impressive when you have a generational scorer to malso feed -- regardless of supporting cast.
There's not much precedent for it, but I think of Curry as guy who could maintain high level of volume/efficiency with Durant on the floor.
Scoring 27 points per game in itself is not that easy to do man.
But the gap between Kyrie's ability to stretch the floor and Wade's was a fucking gulf
LeBron/Wade was beautiful in its own ways, especially when they smother you defensively/ could get out and run. But their offense at times was outright clunky
By contrast Cavs offense was pretty fucking smooth -- escpially those last two years of Kyrie/Lebron window.
The 2017 team that lost to the Warriors in 5 easily one of the best teams to not win the title. Way better than the team that did win in 2016
Yeah, I’m not sure what your overall point is. Wade was a lot better player than Irving in their first 3 years with LeBron. Thus Irving is the best teammate lebron ever had is wrong. Obviously it is impossible to chart the exact inflection point moment that Wade was no longer elite but 2012 he was still one of the top players in the league by most reasonable estimates even if his decline had begun. Irving wasn’t really Irving yet their 1st year either.
Celts played a 77-76 game vs the sixers in the playoffs that year or something, it was a very different time for offenses before the pace/space era + even more rule changes were ushered in.
Celts played a 77-76 game vs the sixers in the playoffs that year or something, it was a very different time for offenses before the pace/space era + even more rule changes were ushered in.
I think you could make a strong case Wade a better overall individual player than Irving in those windows (not sure why we aren't including Wade's fourth year) , but I also think Irving complimented LeBron's game significantly better than Wade did. So I guess it boils down to how you define better teammate.
And Wade was only one of top tier NBA player for LeBron's first year really.
To put it another way: As a Cavs fan, I would not have swapped that Kyrie for that version of Wade unless I'm only getting 2010-11 Wade.
2012 kinda weird year I guess as one era was ending (Kobe, KG, pierce, pau, Dirk, Duncan, Amare, nash) and another had not begun yet but he was definitely 1 of the best players still. Bosh was out most of the east playoffs with the ab injury.
The reason I don’t include Wades 4th year is because there is no 4th year for Irving, seems pretty simple.
The reason I don’t include Wades 4th year is because there is no 4th year for Irving, seems pretty simple.
Cryie sucks, he destroyed chemistry, he's a cancer in the locker room, and he's no fucking leader
The C's became better when he left. Addition by subtraction
I don't care what anyone else thinks, Cryrie sucks
