IMO, This thread should never be moved. It is right where it belongs here in the offshore forums.
This issue is a good indicator of what can happen if a book posts a confusing prop. This thread has also ensured that I will never deposit at 5Dimes.
5dimes response is a perfect example of what a book should not do when a dispute arrises.
This issue is a good indicator of what can happen if a book posts a confusing prop. This thread has also ensured that I will never deposit at 5Dimes.
5dimes response is a perfect example of what a book should not do when a dispute arrises.
I think I know what is wrong with the interpretations of the +1/2 and -1/2 knockdowns.
Knockdowns are BAD, so it is like GOLF, low score wins.
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN +½ -273
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN -½ +233
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN ZERO
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN ONE
therefore:
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN "-1/2" = 1 - 1/2 = 1/2
since this is bigger than zero, (low score wins) this is a LOSING BET, not a winning bet as 5dimes as indicated.
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN "+1/2" = 0 + 1/2 = 1/2
This is smaller than the one time Oscar was knocked down. This is a WINNING BET, not a losing bet as 5dimes indicated.
So, I believe that 5dimes grading of which bets win/lose is incorrect.
Think of it as 1/2 point handicaps in GOLF. Low score wins.
Drunkguy took the position 1 is greater than 0.5 as in indication of a win. But, low score wins makes more sense in this context.
Knockdowns are BAD, so it is like GOLF, low score wins.
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN +½ -273
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN -½ +233
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN ZERO
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN ONE
therefore:
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN "-1/2" = 1 - 1/2 = 1/2
since this is bigger than zero, (low score wins) this is a LOSING BET, not a winning bet as 5dimes as indicated.
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN "+1/2" = 0 + 1/2 = 1/2
This is smaller than the one time Oscar was knocked down. This is a WINNING BET, not a losing bet as 5dimes indicated.
So, I believe that 5dimes grading of which bets win/lose is incorrect.
Think of it as 1/2 point handicaps in GOLF. Low score wins.
Drunkguy took the position 1 is greater than 0.5 as in indication of a win. But, low score wins makes more sense in this context.
SportsSavant,
stop trying to argue logic to people that won't listen. You won't change their minds.
RobFunk, I expected better from you, sometimes you can be stubborn.
Everyone needs to take a breather on this. Reread Boxing Freak's original post. Try and figure out what he actually bet. It NEVER SAYS what he bet! Wait until he comes back and produces the ticket and states his case. Then can we become judge and jury.
stop trying to argue logic to people that won't listen. You won't change their minds.
RobFunk, I expected better from you, sometimes you can be stubborn.
Everyone needs to take a breather on this. Reread Boxing Freak's original post. Try and figure out what he actually bet. It NEVER SAYS what he bet! Wait until he comes back and produces the ticket and states his case. Then can we become judge and jury.
Java, that was one of my conclusions.
I actually wanted to bet this prop, but decided not to due to the various interpretations.
I certainly don't think 5Dimes tried to steal Freak's money. I have seen this scenario unfold quite a few times in backroom poker games and on the golf course. Two guys make a side bet and due to a misunderstanding they both truly think they had the winner.
The props should have been listed individually IMO, with clear grading examples above or below them.
These situations are tough. I know what Boxing Freak intended from knowing him as a poster. I also know 5Dimes is one of the top books out there when it comes to options and honesty.
Hopefully the two sides can come to some sort of mutual agreement.
I actually wanted to bet this prop, but decided not to due to the various interpretations.
I certainly don't think 5Dimes tried to steal Freak's money. I have seen this scenario unfold quite a few times in backroom poker games and on the golf course. Two guys make a side bet and due to a misunderstanding they both truly think they had the winner.
The props should have been listed individually IMO, with clear grading examples above or below them.
These situations are tough. I know what Boxing Freak intended from knowing him as a poster. I also know 5Dimes is one of the top books out there when it comes to options and honesty.
Hopefully the two sides can come to some sort of mutual agreement.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GreenDoberman:
Everyone needs to take a breather on this. Reread Boxing Freak's original post. Try and figure out what he actually bet. It NEVER SAYS what he bet! Wait until he comes back and produces the ticket and states his case. Then can we become judge and jury. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess this doesn't explain it?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It turns out that I risked $923 to win $384.58 on a proposition which really meant that Oscar had to create the most knockdowns @ -240. I have bet on many boxing matches and I never would have bet on such a proposition @ -240 if it were properly explained to me because the chances of Oscar knocking Hopkins down at all were slim going into the fight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Everyone needs to take a breather on this. Reread Boxing Freak's original post. Try and figure out what he actually bet. It NEVER SAYS what he bet! Wait until he comes back and produces the ticket and states his case. Then can we become judge and jury. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess this doesn't explain it?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It turns out that I risked $923 to win $384.58 on a proposition which really meant that Oscar had to create the most knockdowns @ -240. I have bet on many boxing matches and I never would have bet on such a proposition @ -240 if it were properly explained to me because the chances of Oscar knocking Hopkins down at all were slim going into the fight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Drunkguy, read what you wrote again, by your own statement this wager should be a PUSH.
Hopkins Knockdowns 0 + .5 = .5 (your correct)
Oscar Knockdowns 1 - .5 = .5 (Not 1 as you said)
Wager is a push
--------------------------------------------
I don't understand the confusion about this line..
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN "+1/2"
hopkins was knocked down ZERO times, so this stands at 0.5
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN
Oscar was knocked down ONCE, so this stands at 1.
1 is greater than 0.5, so the OSCAR bet wins
Hopkins Knockdowns 0 + .5 = .5 (your correct)
Oscar Knockdowns 1 - .5 = .5 (Not 1 as you said)
Wager is a push
--------------------------------------------
I don't understand the confusion about this line..
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN "+1/2"
hopkins was knocked down ZERO times, so this stands at 0.5
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN
Oscar was knocked down ONCE, so this stands at 1.
1 is greater than 0.5, so the OSCAR bet wins
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Talenz:
Drunkguy, read what you wrote again, by your own statement this wager should be a PUSH.
Hopkins Knockdowns 0 + .5 = .5 (your correct)
Oscar Knockdowns 1 - .5 = .5 (Not 1 as you said)
Wager is a push
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, by that reasoning, in the NFL yesterday, I had Cleveland. The line was +/- 6:
Cleveland: 12 + 6 = 18
Dallas: 19 -6 = 13
I better call my book up and tell them they misgraded cleveland as a loser...
you don't get the handicap on BOTH sides, just the one your are taking. Same with pucklines, runlines, etc, etc. If it was the way you have it explained above, a -1.5 MLB team would have to win by 3 just to push!
Drunkguy, read what you wrote again, by your own statement this wager should be a PUSH.
Hopkins Knockdowns 0 + .5 = .5 (your correct)
Oscar Knockdowns 1 - .5 = .5 (Not 1 as you said)
Wager is a push
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK, by that reasoning, in the NFL yesterday, I had Cleveland. The line was +/- 6:
Cleveland: 12 + 6 = 18
Dallas: 19 -6 = 13
I better call my book up and tell them they misgraded cleveland as a loser...
you don't get the handicap on BOTH sides, just the one your are taking. Same with pucklines, runlines, etc, etc. If it was the way you have it explained above, a -1.5 MLB team would have to win by 3 just to push!
5Dimes' prop was clear. I could figure that out from the original post.
If you're still in doubt, look at the odds offered. "Times Hopkins Knockdowns +0.5 -273" suggests this will happen about 1/4 of the time. This is consistent with Hopkins being a -200 favorite for the fight, and with the public believing neither fighter will get knocked down.
More often than not, the customer service at most books do not understand anything more complex than sides/moneylines bets. If you're going to put your money at risk on a prop, you owe it to yourself to at least read the prop closely, as this one is pretty straight-forward to any prop-bettor.
If you're still in doubt, look at the odds offered. "Times Hopkins Knockdowns +0.5 -273" suggests this will happen about 1/4 of the time. This is consistent with Hopkins being a -200 favorite for the fight, and with the public believing neither fighter will get knocked down.
More often than not, the customer service at most books do not understand anything more complex than sides/moneylines bets. If you're going to put your money at risk on a prop, you owe it to yourself to at least read the prop closely, as this one is pretty straight-forward to any prop-bettor.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 5Dimes:
There were no transfers on the call from the customer service department to the wagering department. There were no calls direct to wagering or transfers to wagering from this customer discussing this prop. The prop wager was placed on the Internet. Only after the prop was graded did the customer call to speak with the wagering department. At that time ONLY, did the customer ask to have the prop explained. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The entire above statement is a complete lie. I called initially to have the prop explained to me. I called customer service and was transferred to wagering. After the explanation, I was transferred back to customer service for Western Union instructions.
You can't find the call maybe because you do not want to find it or maybe you are just lying period. Afterall, it is up to 5 dimes to find it. If you don't want to produce it, all that you have to do is deny everything that I have said.
There was a time when I would vote for your site any time your reputation was in question. Now you have no credibility whatsoever.
There were no transfers on the call from the customer service department to the wagering department. There were no calls direct to wagering or transfers to wagering from this customer discussing this prop. The prop wager was placed on the Internet. Only after the prop was graded did the customer call to speak with the wagering department. At that time ONLY, did the customer ask to have the prop explained. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The entire above statement is a complete lie. I called initially to have the prop explained to me. I called customer service and was transferred to wagering. After the explanation, I was transferred back to customer service for Western Union instructions.
You can't find the call maybe because you do not want to find it or maybe you are just lying period. Afterall, it is up to 5 dimes to find it. If you don't want to produce it, all that you have to do is deny everything that I have said.
There was a time when I would vote for your site any time your reputation was in question. Now you have no credibility whatsoever.
I just saw this. You guys are hilarious.
If this was the line as posted by 5dimes,
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN +½ -273
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN -½ +233
Then the wager can ONLY be graded as follows:
Times Hopkins knocked down actual: 0. Adjusted by spread of +1/2 = <span class="ev_code_RED">HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN 1/2 times.</span>
Times Oscar knocked down actual: 1. Adjusted by spread of -1/2 = <span class="ev_code_RED">OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN 1/2 TIMES</span>
The adjusted knockdown totals for BOTH is 0.5 of a knockdown.
Therefore, this prop was a push.
5Dimes, please regrade as a push, return the $923 to the account, and let's all get on with our lives.
UT
If this was the line as posted by 5dimes,
TIMES HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN +½ -273
TIMES OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN -½ +233
Then the wager can ONLY be graded as follows:
Times Hopkins knocked down actual: 0. Adjusted by spread of +1/2 = <span class="ev_code_RED">HOPKINS KNOCKED DOWN 1/2 times.</span>
Times Oscar knocked down actual: 1. Adjusted by spread of -1/2 = <span class="ev_code_RED">OSCAR KNOCKED DOWN 1/2 TIMES</span>
The adjusted knockdown totals for BOTH is 0.5 of a knockdown.
Therefore, this prop was a push.
5Dimes, please regrade as a push, return the $923 to the account, and let's all get on with our lives.
UT
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GreenDoberman:
"It turns out that I risked $923 to win $384.58 on a proposition which really meant that Oscar had to create the most knockdowns 2 -240".
Hopkins had the most knockdowns, 1-0, you lost your bet.
You should have bet the other side, end of story. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I suggest you reread the post. I never intended on betting for DLH in any fashion. I was just interpreting what I actually ended up wagering on.
"It turns out that I risked $923 to win $384.58 on a proposition which really meant that Oscar had to create the most knockdowns 2 -240".
Hopkins had the most knockdowns, 1-0, you lost your bet.
You should have bet the other side, end of story. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I suggest you reread the post. I never intended on betting for DLH in any fashion. I was just interpreting what I actually ended up wagering on.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by daringly:
5Dimes' prop was clear. I could figure that out from the original post.
If you're still in doubt, look at the odds offered. "Times Hopkins Knockdowns +0.5 -273" suggests this will happen about 1/4 of the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
With respect, not so, daringly.
If the opinion expressed by the line is that the outcome is likely to happen about 1/4 of the time, then the line would be four to one without vigorish. You would NOT have to lay odds for an event that is 75%likely NOT to happen.
Think of a two-team parlay. There are FOUR outcomes, each of which is as you say, "likely to happen about 1/4 of the time".. and there, you get plus odds - 2.6 to 1.
Would you lay -273 to bet a 2-team parlay?? I hope not.
UT
5Dimes' prop was clear. I could figure that out from the original post.
If you're still in doubt, look at the odds offered. "Times Hopkins Knockdowns +0.5 -273" suggests this will happen about 1/4 of the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
With respect, not so, daringly.
If the opinion expressed by the line is that the outcome is likely to happen about 1/4 of the time, then the line would be four to one without vigorish. You would NOT have to lay odds for an event that is 75%likely NOT to happen.
Think of a two-team parlay. There are FOUR outcomes, each of which is as you say, "likely to happen about 1/4 of the time".. and there, you get plus odds - 2.6 to 1.
Would you lay -273 to bet a 2-team parlay?? I hope not.
UT
