2014 Kentucky Derby Thoughts

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:aktion033 Just was able to get a hold of this...................Remember this for the past few years, This gentlemen, Jon White , has a Derby Strikes System, ( I guess you can call it that ), from which he narrows down the field to select which horses are the possible winners of the race. This is some Great stuff........................and I always say, every little bit helps in trying to cap this monster of a race....................


ENJOY..........................


Since 1973, 35 of the 41 Kentucky Derby winners have had either zero strikes or one strike, while five winners had two strikes. Of the last 41 Kentucky Derby winners, the only one to have more than two strikes was Mine That Bird, who had four.


Now here are strikes for the 26 leading point earners, listed in the same order as they were earlier:

California Chrome (0)
Vicar’s in Trouble (2) Categories 4 and 6
Dance With Fate (1) Category 4
Wicked Strong (1) Category 3
Samraat (0)
Danza (2) Categories 1 and 6
Constitution (2) Categories 6 and 8
Hoppertunity (1) Category 8
Intense Holiday (0)
Wildcat Red (0)
We Miss Artie (2) Categories 3 and 4
Ride On Curlin (2) Categories 2 and 4
Chitu (2) Categories 4 and 6
Tapiture (2) Categories 3 and 5
Midnight Hawk (1) Category 6
Ring Weekend (1) Category 9
General a Rod (2) Categories 2 and 6
Medal Count (0)
Candy Boy (1) Category 3
Cairo Prince (1) Category 6
Uncle Sigh (3) Categories 2, 5 and 6
Vinceremos (2) Categories 5 and 6
Harry’s Holiday (2) Categories 2 and 4
Commanding Curve (3) Categories 2, 3 and 4
Pablo Del Monte (2) Categories 2 and 4
Bayern (5) Categories 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8
Social Inclusion (5) Categories 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8



1. THE GRADED STAKES FACTOR. (The horse ran in a graded stakes race as a 3-year-old before March 31.) This points out horses who have competed against tough competition early in the year at 3 and not just at the last minute in April, enabling the horse to be properly battle-tested. (Exceptions: Since the introduction of graded stakes races in the U.S. in 1973, only Genuine Risk in 1980, Sunny’s Halo in 1983 and Mine That Bird in 2009 have won the Derby without running in a graded stakes race at 3 before March 31.)

2. THE WIN IN A GRADED STAKES FACTOR. (The horse has won a graded stakes race.) This points out horses who have shown they have the class to win a graded stakes race. (Exceptions: Ferdinand in 1986, Alysheba in 1987, Funny Cide in 2003 and Giacomo in 2005 are the only exceptions since the introduction of U.S. graded stakes races in 1973; Alysheba in 1987 did finish first in the Blue Grass, only to be disqualified and placed third.)

3. THE EIGHTH POLE FACTOR. (In either of his or her last two starts before the Derby, the horse was either first or second with a furlong to go.) This points out horses who were running strongly at the eighth pole, usually in races at 1 1/16 or 1 1/8 miles. By running strongly at the same point in the Derby, a horse would be in a prime position to win the roses. Keep in mind that 47 of the last 51 Derby winners have been first or second at the eighth pole. Animal Kingdom was third at the eighth pole in 2011 (only a half-length from being second); Giacomo was sixth at the eighth pole in 2005; Grindstone was fourth at the eighth pole in 1996; Decidedly was third at the eighth pole in 1962. (Exceptions: Since 1955, the Kentucky Derby winners who weren’t either first or second at the eighth pole in his or her last two starts have been Tim Tam in 1958, Carry Back in 1961, Cannonade in 1974, Gato Del Sol in 1982, Unbridled in 1990 and Sea Hero in 1993, with Canonero II in 1971 unknown.)

4. THE GAMENESS FACTOR. (The horse’s finish position in both of his or her last two races before the Derby was no worse than his or her running position at the eighth pole.) This points out horses who don’t like to get passed in the final furlong. (Exceptions: Since 1955, the exceptions have been Venetian Way in 1960, Cannonade in 1974, Foolish Pleasure in 1975, Ferdinand in 1986, Silver Charm in 1997, Mine That Bird in 2009 and Super Saver in 2010, with Canonero II in 1971 unknown.)

5. THE DISTANCE FOUNDATION FACTOR. (The horse has finished at least third in a 1 1/8-mile race or longer before the Derby.) This points out horses who have the proper foundation and/or stamina for the Derby distance. (Exceptions: Since 1955, the only exceptions have been Kauai King in 1966, Sea Hero in 1993, Charismatic in 1999, Giacomo in 2005 and Mine That Bird in 2009.)

6. THE SUFFICIENT RACING EXPERIENCE FACTOR. (The horse has had at least six lifetime starts before the Derby.) This points out horses who have the needed experience. (Exceptions: Since 1955, Grindstone in 1996, Fusaichi Pegasus in 2000, Barbaro in 2006, Big Brown in 2008, Animal Kingdom in 2011 and I’ll Have Another in 2012 have been the exceptions. Grindstone, Fusaichi Pegasus and Barbaro each had made five starts before the Kentucky Derby. Animal Kingdom had made four starts before the Kentucky Derby. Big Brown had made three starts before the Kentucky Derby. I’ll Have Another had made five starts before the Kentucky Derby.)

7. THE NO ADDING OR REMOVING BLINKERS FACTOR. (The horse has not added blinkers or had blinkers removed in his or her final start at 3 before the Derby.) This seems to point out that, if a horse is good enough to win the Derby, the trainer is not searching for answers so late in the game. (Since Daily Racing Form began including blinkers in its past performances in 1987, no horse has added blinkers or had blinkers removed in his or her last start at 3 before winning the Derby.)

8. THE RACED AS A 2-YEAR-OLD FACTOR. (The horse made at least one start as a 2-year-old.) (Exception: Apollo in 1882 is the only Kentucky Derby winner who didn’t race as a 2-year-old. There now have been 131 straight Kentucky Derby winners who raced at as a 2-year-old. Through 2013, the score is 138-1 in terms of Kentucky Derby winners who raced at 2. Going back to 1956, horses unraced at 2 are 0 for 50 in the Kentucky Derby. During that time, the only horses to even place or show were Agitate, who finished third in 1974; Reinvested, third in 1982; Strodes Creek, second in 1994; Curlin, third in 2007; and Bodemeister, second in 2012).

9. THE NOT A GELDING FACTOR. (The horse is not a gelding.) (Exceptions: Funny Cide in 2003 and Mine That Bird in 2009 are the only geldings to win the Derby since Clyde Van Dusen in 1929.)
 

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11B,

Indeed...Thanks for posting the strike system..This is great info that should not be overlooked..Jon White has been able to pick the straight up winner the past 2 years and the system has been very consistent over the years..Last year I used this system and the AHP auto elimination factors both to make my selections..Glad I did cus it helped me hit the winner...


Winning Sire Line Trend from AHP

The Raise A Native sire line horses are outperforming their opportunities in the Derby, Preakness, and Belmont Stakes.This sire line is the best in all triple crown races..12 of the past 20 Derby winners were Raise A Native sire line horses.. In the 2012 Derby there were 6 horses that carried the Raise A Native Sire Line and 4 of them filled out the Superfecta...I'll Have Another, Bodemeister, Dullahan, And Went The Day Well...Do you know how many RAN horses have won the Belmont since 1995?? The Answer is 14..That's 14 out of the last 19..Hard to go against those numbers. Those figures speak loud and clear of the RAN sire line above all others...:103631605


2014 Derby Sire Line

Horse.......................Sire Line..................Dam Sire Line
Cairo Prince..............Raise A Native.............Questiionnaire
Candy Boy................Raise A Native.............Nasrullah
Dance With Fate.........Raise A Native.............Turn-To
Danza......................Raise A Native.............Northern Dancer
General A Rod...........Raise A Native..............Turn-To
Hopperunity..............Raise A Native..............Damascus
Midnight Hawk...........Raise A Native..............Princequillo
Ride On Curlin...........Raise A Native..............Northern Dancer

Vinceremos...............Raise A Native..............Turn-To
California Chrome.......Bold Ruler...................Raise A Native
Commanding Curve.....Bold Ruler...................Northern Dancer
Ring Weekend............Bold Ruler...................Raise A Native
Tapiture....................Bold Ruler...................Nasrullah
Uncle Sigh.................Nasrullah.....................Northern Dancer
Chitu........................Northern Dancer...........Bold Ruler
Harry's Holiday...........Northern Dancer...........Blushing Groom
Intense Holiday...........Northern Dancer...........Raise A Native
Pablo Del Monte..........Northern Dancer...........Nasrullah
Samraat....................Northern Dancer...........Nasrullah
Vicar's In Trouble.........Northern Dancer...........Nearatic
We Miss Artie..............Northern Dancer...........Raise A Native
Wicked Strong.............Northern Dancer...........Northern Dancer
Wildcat Red................Northern Dancer...........Raise A Native
Medal Count...............Turn-To.......................Northern Dancer
 

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I see Cali Chrome does have RAN on his mothers side, does that count for anything or will we see back to back sires by Bold Ruler?
 

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TCG,

We would see back to back sires by Bold Ruler...Also keep in mind if Cali Chrome wins, this would be only the second time since 1940 (As far as we can track) that a horse with the same sire and same dam won the Derby back to back..Orb also has RAN on his mother's side....The only other time this has happened was 2000 with Fusaichi Pegasus and in 2001 with Monarchos, both having the RAN sire line and Northern Dancer on the dam side...
 

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Oh wow......that's a tough trend to break. Only 2 times in 73 years, hmm.......

I had Monarchos in 2001 & now I'm wondering if I knew about this trend, would it had stopped me from*playing? Do we not bet Cali Chrome because of this trend?

I try to bet the best looking horse being fit at the right time & getting ready to break a big one. *
 

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I don't see how anyone can leave him out with how good he has looked.. Cali Chrome still remains at the top of my list despite what the trends say.. The other trend being a Cali bred horse hasn't won the derby since Decidedly did in 1962.. History does repeat itself and It's bound to happen eventually, just as the 1882 Apollo curse will likely end one day.. The only question is when....And will we ever see another Triple Crown winner??
 
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GoodfellaLV,

Some great, GREAT stuff and info dealing with the RAN sire line..........................as we continue to put the pieces of the puzzle the picture should be getting a little clearer............think the winner might be another one of his.............?

So glad you appreciate the Strike's System.....................as I know some have called his 'weaning of the horses' not with today's times.

I give this man credit, as I like to narrow down the field ( for the winner, of course ) with his notable strikes.

Thanks again.........................To you and all of the other positive contributors ................So Much Appreciated
 

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I what's the cutoff points for the dosage points? I thought I read above 16, correct me i fiI'm wrong.
 
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I what's the cutoff points for the dosage points? I thought I read above 16, correct me i fiI'm wrong.


I believe that always point to a number above or below 4......................


Dosage Index

This is by far the most popular way of winnowing out who can make the Derby distance of 1 1/4 miles and who can't. A simple explanation is that dosage figures a given contender's distance potential based on stallions from the first 4 generations of that horse's pedigree. It's a genetically-based theory that takes into account not only how well certain ancestors of the horse did, but also how far back in the horse's line they are. Points are awarded for speed and stamina of top-notch horses that often appear in contenders' pedigrees. These super stallions are called "chefs de race." Any horse with a dosage of 4.00 or less is supposed to be able to make the derby distance. So far, since the derby began in 1875, only four winners have had dosages higher than 4.00; however, all of those were relatively recently. They were Strike The Gold in 1991, Real Quiet in 1998, Charismatic in 1999 and Giacomo in 2005. Because of a reclassification of his sire, Strike the Gold would now qualify.
 
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:think2: Here is the final count for the horses which finished in the top 3 of the 4 major prep races...........


Likely Kentucky Derby starters who finished in the top three of the major preps:


Dance with Fate – 1st Blue Grass Stakes –

Medal Count – 2nd Blue Grass Stakes -


Wildcat Red – 2nd Florida Derby –

General a Rod – 3rd Florida Derby –


California Chrome – 1st Santa Anita Derby –

Hoppertunity – 2nd Santa Anita Derby –

Candy Boy – 3rd Santa Anita Derby –


Wicked Strong – 1st Wood Memorial –

Samraat – 2nd Wood Memorial –


This is from the linked article at the beginning of this thread.......
 

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11, I meant dosage points, not dosage index. I knew the DI was 4.0 & lower but the dosage points I believe is below 12 or 14, I don't know the exact number. Cali Chrome has 22 points & I believe the highest is 36 points this year on Medal Count.
 

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tanner, rweading 11 blacks stuff here is like reading the form....handicapping materials.....if u don't like it go somewhere else......wtf.........I enjoy this shit and always will........thanks for your time black
 

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cairo prince been declared out of the derby sustained injury coming out of a workout left front ankle could be serious for future of the nice colt



cheers


tsf
 

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Here's a list of where all the KD winners were bred from.. As you probably guessed, Kentucky has the most with 106 bred winners.. The last horse to win outside of Kentucky was 2004, when Smarty Jones from PA won it all...


Birthplace of Kentucky Derby Winners


Kentucky (106)
Orb 2013
I'll Have Another 2012
Animal Kingdom 2011
Super Saver 2010
Mine That Bird 2009
Big Brown 2008
Street Sense 2007


Florida (6)
Silver Charm 1997
Unbridled 1990
Affirmed 1978
Foolish Pleasure 1975
Carry Back 1961
Needles 1956

Virginia (4)
Sea Hero 1993
Pleasant Colony 1981
Secretariat 1973
Reigh Count 1928

California (3)
Decidedly 1962
Swaps 1955
Morvich 1922

Tennessee (3)
Typhoon II 1897
Kingman 1891
Lord Murphy 1879

Canada (2)
Sunny’s Halo 1983
Northern Dancer 1964

England (2)
Tomy Lee-GB 1959
Omar Khayyam-GB 1917

New Jersey (2)
Cavalcade 1934
Regret 1915

Pennsylvania (2)
Smarty Jones 2004
Lil E. Tee 1992

Texas (2)
Middleground 1950
Assault 1946

Illinois (1)
Dust Commander 1970

Kansas (1)
Lawrin 1938

Maryland (1)
Kauai King 1966

Missouri (1)
Elwood 1904

Montana (1)
Spokane 1889

New York (1)
Funny Cide 2003

Ohio (1)
Wintergreen 1909

Omar Khayyam-GB (1917), Tomy Lee-GB (1959), Northern Dancer (1964) and Sunny’s Halo (1983) are the only winners not foaled in the United States. Omar Khayyam-GB was brought to the U.S. as a yearling. Tomy Lee-GB was brought to the U.S. as a weanling.

Cavalcade (1934) and Pensive (1944) are sons of mares bred to stallions in England and brought to America while the mares were carrying the Derby winners.
 
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also another place for good info is.........www.chef-de-race.com

kbrod66.............

Good to hear from you and thanks for the link to the site...................this is a boat load of information, especially all of the pedigree info.....................
 
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cairo prince been declared out of the derby sustained injury coming out of a workout left front ankle could be serious for future of the nice colt



cheers


tsf


Thanks for the update...............................wow, he was probably going to be one of my longshot plays.......................had him in my intial 6 that I liked..............now I have to replace him.............

Thanks again, be well...........................
 
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Here's a list of where all the KD winners were bred from.. As you probably guessed, Kentucky has the most with 106 bred winners.. The last horse to win outside of Kentucky was 2004, when Smarty Jones from PA won it all...


Birthplace of Kentucky Derby Winners

Goodfella...............

Thanks again for your input........................really have enjoyed your contribution of information....................some very GOOD stuff..................much a[ppreciated...
 

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