20 stabbed at HS outside Pittsburgh

[Acebb]

"A perfect example of the effectiveness of gun laws is the state of Hawaii. That state has some of the country’s strictest gun laws and, as an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, it is perhaps the hardest state to transport out-of-state weapons to. Hawaii had the country’s lowest rate of gun deaths per 100,000 residents in 2011, FBI data show."

Uh oh, looks like the meme took a wrong turn; In Hawaii gun ownership rises and violent crime falls:

Hawaii firearms registrations shot up more than 70 percent in 2012, while gun violence continued a four-year decline, according to a new state Department of the Attorney General report.

“While there has been a tremendous increase in firearm registration activity in Hawaii since 2000, the annual trends for both the number of firearm-related violent crimes and the proportion of violent crimes involving firearms relative to other weapon types remained stable within a low and narrow range through 2007, and decreased substantially from 2008 through 2012, during which time registration activity increased the most sharply,” the Department of the Attorney concluded.

===============
^ That is what I love the most about left wingers talking about these issues. You give them enough time and their posts always, without exception, become self refuting.

 

[Enfuego]

You were already provided a link. You quoted my post with the link.

Are you seriously suggesting you did not know that DC was on more than 1 occasion the murder capital of America while having a gun ban? You really don't know that Chicago led the nation in homicides while having a gun ban?

Am I missing something?

In Washington, D.C., all firearms must be registered with the police, by the terms of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975.

The same law also prohibited the possession of handguns, even in private citizens' own homes, unless they were registered before 1976. However, the handgun ban was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller. The Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment acknowledges and guarantees the right of the individual to possess and carry firearms, and therefore D.C.'s ban on handguns was unconstitutional.

D.C. has a ban on guns?

 

[Enfuego]

And yet Chicago, a city with no civilian gun ranges and bans on both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, finds itself laboring to stem a flood of gun violence that contributed to more than 500 homicides last year and at least 40 killings already in 2013, including a fatal shooting of a 15-year-old girl on Tuesday.

Note: Chicago passed a ban on handgun ownership in 1982 and to this day you can not purchase a firearm in the city of Chicago as there are zero gun shops.

Am I missing something?

Chicago has banned the possession of certain semi-automatic firearms that it defines as assault weapons, as well as magazines that can hold more than 15 rounds of ammunition.[SUP][/SUP] Chicago residents must "immediately" report a firearm that is stolen or lost, and must report the transfer of a firearm at least 48 hours in advance. [SUP][/SUP]In a home where a person younger than 18 is present, all guns must be secured with a trigger lock, or stored in a locked container, or secured to the body of the legal owner.Chicago also prohibits the sale of firearms within city limits. [SUP][/SUP]On January 6, 2014, a federal judge ruled that the city's prohibition on the sale of firearms is unconstitutional. The judge granted the city's request for six months to pass new laws regulating gun shops.[SUP][/SUP]

 

[Enfuego]

The left wingers argument that if guns were universally banned in the US that we would see a huge decline in gun violence is almost certainly true. I lived in Latvia for 10 years where it is almost impossible to get a gun and indeed most people have to settle for stabling each other or baseball bats.

What the left wingers fail to understand is that if we allow the government to take away the fundamental right to defend oneself....... then at that point we become wards of the state. Gun ownership is the most important of all the Bill of Rights as the right to defend yourself from tyranny is the the protection for all the other rights. Obviously given the massive out of control big government nightmare that we live in it seems a bit late to worry about these things..... but widespread gun ownership is pretty much the only thing separating us from a full blown Stalinist style police state.

Cyyyk, I'm far from a left winger and Willie or FZ will tell you that. But, I lean left on this issue.

I disagree with you. The most important aspect of the Bill of Rights is the First Amendment.

 

[Acebb]

Am I missing something?

Yes, quite clearly.

 

[Acebb]

Am I missing something?

.

Considering you were provided homicide numbers for both Chicago and Washington, DC while their gun bans were in effect, yes.

Why do you continuously respond in this manner?

 

[Acebb]

D.C. has a ban on guns?

Uh, nobody said DC has a current ban on guns. In fact, I helpfully posted: "Since the ban was passed, more than 8,400 people have been murdered in the district [2008 figures, ban was struck down that year].
The year after the Supreme Court struck down the District of Columbia’s handgun ban and gun-lock requirements, the capital city’s murder rate dropped 25%."

So did you miss that post or something?

 

[Acebb]

So as we see, enfuego asked for links on the experiences of Chicago & DC with their gun bans, the information was provided, and enfuego responds to the information trying to pretend it was suggested that both cities currently have gun bans.

Why do the people who want to ban or "control" guns engage in such rank dishonesty?

Note, as a point of fact, you can not purchase a firearm within the city limits of either city to this day.

 

[Enfuego]

Yes, quite clearly.

I've respected your opinion and been courteous throughout the thread. I expect the same please.

 

[Enfuego]

So as we see, enfuego asked for links on the experiences of Chicago & DC with their gun bans, the information was provided, and enfuego responds to the information trying to pretend it was suggested that both cities currently have gun bans.

Why do the people who want to ban or "control" guns engage in such rank dishonesty?

Note, as a point of fact, you can not purchase a firearm within the city limits of either city to this day.

Please address me instead of trying to mock me to other posters.

 

[Enfuego]

I'm not being dishonest here. Please don't make that accusation.

I misunderstood. You meant homicides went up when the ban was in play? We had a miscommunication.

There is no hidden agenda here AC.

 

[Acebb]

Please address me instead of trying to mock me to other posters.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to "mock" you.

I'm articulating the reason why it challenging to have a discussion with you.

You asked for information [8,400+ people were murdered with firearms while DC's gun ban was in effect; almost as many were murdered with Chicago's ban in effect in Chicago] it was provided, and you decided to respond to something I never said.

You've done that more than once in this thread. Forgive me if I view that as both intentional and disrespectful of my opinion.

 

[Acebb]

I'm not being dishonest here. Please don't make that accusation.

I misunderstood. You meant homicides went up when the ban was in play? We had a miscommunication.

There is no hidden agenda here AC.

Fair enough. I am not trying to mock you, I'm just trying to get you to acknowledge the point I was trying to make.

Homicides increased in DC after the ban was enacted (and have gone down after it was struck down).

Despite having a gun ban, Chicago routinely led the nation in homicide numbers.

That was what I was referencing.

 

[Enfuego]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to "mock" you.

I'm articulating the reason why it challenging to have a discussion with you.

You asked for information [8,400+ people were murdered with firearms while DC's gun ban was in effect; almost as many were murdered with Chicago's ban in effect in Chicago] it was provided, and you decided to respond to something I never said.

You've done that more than once in this thread. Forgive me if I view that as both intentional and disrespectful of my opinion.

I find this to be the case over email as well. Sometimes words on the CPU don't translate. Just miscommunication.

 

[The Guesser]

Except you have the problem pointing to any actual "lies."

But hey, go on pretending that an island in the middle of the pacific constitutes a win for gun laws.

Maybe we can build a moat around Chicago?

idiot.

No problem at all LIAR. Do it constantly downstairs. Did it here, but this is Vit's house so he can continue doing it up here in the future.
Ace: The fact of the matter there are zero gun control success stories in America. None.
Guesser: Supplies Gun Control success Story in Hawaii, a part of America
Ace: Bobbing and weaving before just collapsing in his own lie.This is typical Ace, making a statement, having it exposed as a total lie, and then either moving the gaoalposts, or more common, just goes on as if the lie didn't happen. Absolutely shameless.
Ace:When you've been reduced to pointing out that Hawaii is an island and it has strict gun control laws as an example of a gun control success story, you're either dishonest or stupid.

 

[Shub]

By the way, at the time of the Sandy Hook murders, Connecticut already had some of the toughest gun laws in the country.

Of course all we need are more laws!

If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

 

[Enfuego]

AC, here's what I would say to counter your argument about the rising violence in cities despite them having gun bans.

In the UK, the entire country has a ban. Banning firearms in a city does absolutely nothing. Guy can walk right outside the city limits and buy one and bring it back into the city. In the UK, there are none to be found unless you are really searching underground but if found with one, the punishment is harsh.

It takes time. You can't just ban weapons on a Monday and all is good 6 months later. It takes time to create change.

Think the UK and a city with a ban are much different situations. Not comparable.

 

[vitterd]

I am not "complaining" about your name calling. I pointed out that you know nothing of the topic and that is all you do is name call.

That is not a "complaint" - it is a criticism. You do understand those words have two different meanings, right? Or are you going to go on and continue showing everyone you're basically illiterate?

You re one weird creepy guy. Quoting posts over and over again instead of just replying with all your thoughts in one post. Very odd.

You point out my name calling while you name call in every post...yet somehow you don't find anything wrong with that.

You fit in well here though. Give us more meaningless gun death stats that do nothing for your argument.

Comical to watch you play these word jumble games with every poster...you look like a fucking idiot and you don't even know it. Now please reply in six different posts.

 

[vitterd]

No problem at all LIAR. Do it constantly downstairs. Did it here, but this is Vit's house so he can continue doing it up here in the future.
Ace: The fact of the matter there are zero gun control success stories in America. None.
Guesser: Supplies Gun Control success Story in Hawaii, a part of America
Ace: Bobbing and weaving before just collapsing in his own lie.This is typical Ace, making a statement, having it exposed as a total lie, and then either moving the gaoalposts, or more common, just goes on as if the lie didn't happen. Absolutely shameless.
Ace:When you've been reduced to pointing out that Hawaii is an island and it has strict gun control laws as an example of a gun control success story, you're either dishonest or stupid.

Ace is one strange indivdual. I've seen many of his garbage posts downstairs. Always moving the goalposts or plays these word games of "I didn't say that"....guy doesn't have a clue about any issue he speaks about and continually gets proven wrong. His resume for the poly forum is perfect.

 

[vitterd]

No problem at all LIAR. Do it constantly downstairs. Did it here, but this is Vit's house so he can continue doing it up here in the future.
Ace: The fact of the matter there are zero gun control success stories in America. None.
Guesser: Supplies Gun Control success Story in Hawaii, a part of America
Ace: Bobbing and weaving before just collapsing in his own lie.This is typical Ace, making a statement, having it exposed as a total lie, and then either moving the gaoalposts, or more common, just goes on as if the lie didn't happen. Absolutely shameless.
Ace:When you've been reduced to pointing out that Hawaii is an island and it has strict gun control laws as an example of a gun control success story, you're either dishonest or stupid.

Ace is one strange indivdual. I've seen many of his garbage posts downstairs. Always moving the goalposts or plays these word games of "I didn't say that"....guy doesn't have a clue about any issue he speaks about and continually gets proven wrong. His resume for the poly forum is perfect.