- Status
This was not "fine print" or small print". The payout limits were in their rules. Any bettor that was/is going to place a bet on an event should know the rules. I rarely bet on horses at sportsbooks, but my OTB account was dry and I wanted to bet the Derby. So I researched some books payout schedule, including WSEX, saw the posted rules, and bet accordingly at the place(s) that had the best rules for the type of bets I was making. I went to their general rules page looked up horses, and there it was, clear as day. I saw it and knew WSEX wasn't the place to bet my Tri's. I certainly wouldn't bet any potential 4 or 5 figure payout bets at a place that clearly caps their limits at 300-1. If I did, and it hit, I'd be furious too. But not at them, at myself for being so dumb or too lazy to look up their posted rules. The "Payouts based on actual track payouts" phrase would cause me to do more research, because it's not super clear, and that's what I did. If they said "We pay track prices on every type of bet with no limits", or some such phrase, Smokey would have a strong case. That's not what it said, and I think WSEX is more than fair at backdating their rule change a day and paying everyone, not just Smokey, 3X what they should. The fact that 300-1 may or may not be be to low, or that it's the Derby and they should be higher is totally irrelevant. That's their rules. Some Books are lower. It's the players responsibility to read the rules of the place and the sport before placing a bet.
This same stuff happens when a Big boxing match is a draw, or a Football game is called early, etc. People have to know the rules at their books when placing bets, and can't blame the book when the player failed to do their research.
This same stuff happens when a Big boxing match is a draw, or a Football game is called early, etc. People have to know the rules at their books when placing bets, and can't blame the book when the player failed to do their research.
If WSEX does not pay Smokey, they are thieves. Period
I am stunned to learn WSEX is pulling this BS. If they do not grab their kahunas and pay the man, I advocate that no one plays there.
In Las Vegas, there is a gambling commission which decides what wagers are fair and can be offered. In order for a wager to be offered, there must be a reasonable chance of both the player and the house winning. For instance a casino can not run slots that pay back 25%. They can not run blackjack tables with no face cards, etc. There is a standard that a house or bookie must take on risk to offer a wager.
Although this is not in effect in the offshore world, the bottom line is taking bets with odds of many times more than 300/1 or 100/1 and then only honoring 300/1 or 100/1 because it is in the rule is crappy at best. It is very shady to offer bets with odds many times that, but have a rule to not pay them.
Now if the rule is clear, you can not argue for the player - you can argue the book sucks and no one should play there, but if the rule is clear, the player should not get paid.
Now what is a clear rule??? If a book is not taking a shot (Which they are when they offer trifectas, etc and cap them) the rule would be abundantly clear. Payout limits would be highlighted on the horse wagering pages and would be colorful and bold when you are on the wager confirmation page.
WSEX has been in the biz for 10+ years and I am sure have had this complaint before. There is no excuse whatsoever for WSEX not to post the limit on the wager confirmation page - the only excuse is more people would not wager there.
In most cases, if you place a parlay bet that should pay 500/1 and the book has a 300/1 cap, when you go to confirm, most books change the payout to 300/1 and tell you before confirmation. Failure to do this is shady at BEST.
The idea of rules is not to make some limit on payouts, hide it, and then let people place and confirm wagers that go over that limit. If it is in the rules, it should be dead clear when confirming a wager. Anything else is unacceptable.
If you can not take the risk associated with a bet and pay it fairly (Even with a big ass vig on your side) do not accept the bet - it is that simple!
But it gets worse for WSEX.
Beyond having a rule that is "shady" at best and a true rip off, they went out of their way to post - WE PAYOUT AT TRACK ODDS OR BASED ON TRACK ODDS or whatever right on the top of their derby page.
Now you could definitely argue that this rule supercedes their multipage long rule book which is buried somewhere else.
Now beyond that, I do not buy for a second that WSEX meant they pay at whatever the horse goes off at, not what it is now. I believe they made this up when this crap went down. If that is what WSEX meant, they would have said all bets pay off based on the track odds at the start of the race or something along those lines.
At best, WSEX, was attempting to be deceptive and hoped more people would bet the derby with them based upon this line and hoped not to get burnt, but knew they had an out.
And finally it gets worse. I am avid gambler. I would surmise that I have placed more sports wagers than 99.99% of the world.
How many wagers have I placed on horses? 2 that I can think of. What were they on? The Derby. Once in 2003 when I went and once either in 2004 or 2005.
I bet war emblem in 2003 and won at the track - I think $1600 on $100.
The next year, I can not remember who I bet, but it did not win. I bet $500. It never crossed my mind to check the rules and see if I would get paid in full... I assumed as I do on all my bets, that if a book accepts the bet, it will pay what it says in the confirmation.
There are millions of people betting the derby who bet a horse or two every 5 years. These people do not know a book will not pay what it says it will pay.
WSEX is a household name in the gambling industry. They know they are out there and many users are not horse sharps. They know that many "novices" are going to come make one bet yesterday. And they know, they stiff a lot of them and very few ill know what to do, know of forums, etc.
Imagine this - you never bet horses. You are going to the derby. You've heard of WSEX. YOu get up Saturday morning. You bet $2 on a few trifectas. You win. You don't get paid.
No one who is not a horse raising sharp would ever think to check the payout limits on a $2 bet at one of the world's most respected offshore books. No one would think to check the limits and no one should.
Now an expert wanting to bet a $1000 trifecta might check the limits, but I would guess 99% of the people who bet a buck or two never thought to look at them. What type of book doesnt pay off a $2 bet! (ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY STATE IN BOLD _ PAID AT TRACK ODDS)
WSEX is plain and simply stealing from every single one of these people who won.
Bottom line, WSEX is an F book till they pay not only smokey, but every other person who bet yesterday, won and was stiffed.
Step up WSEX, use some of those millions and gain a ton of good publicity.
No one here, like smokey or not, should be taking their side.
-Sean
I am stunned to learn WSEX is pulling this BS. If they do not grab their kahunas and pay the man, I advocate that no one plays there.
In Las Vegas, there is a gambling commission which decides what wagers are fair and can be offered. In order for a wager to be offered, there must be a reasonable chance of both the player and the house winning. For instance a casino can not run slots that pay back 25%. They can not run blackjack tables with no face cards, etc. There is a standard that a house or bookie must take on risk to offer a wager.
Although this is not in effect in the offshore world, the bottom line is taking bets with odds of many times more than 300/1 or 100/1 and then only honoring 300/1 or 100/1 because it is in the rule is crappy at best. It is very shady to offer bets with odds many times that, but have a rule to not pay them.
Now if the rule is clear, you can not argue for the player - you can argue the book sucks and no one should play there, but if the rule is clear, the player should not get paid.
Now what is a clear rule??? If a book is not taking a shot (Which they are when they offer trifectas, etc and cap them) the rule would be abundantly clear. Payout limits would be highlighted on the horse wagering pages and would be colorful and bold when you are on the wager confirmation page.
WSEX has been in the biz for 10+ years and I am sure have had this complaint before. There is no excuse whatsoever for WSEX not to post the limit on the wager confirmation page - the only excuse is more people would not wager there.
In most cases, if you place a parlay bet that should pay 500/1 and the book has a 300/1 cap, when you go to confirm, most books change the payout to 300/1 and tell you before confirmation. Failure to do this is shady at BEST.
The idea of rules is not to make some limit on payouts, hide it, and then let people place and confirm wagers that go over that limit. If it is in the rules, it should be dead clear when confirming a wager. Anything else is unacceptable.
If you can not take the risk associated with a bet and pay it fairly (Even with a big ass vig on your side) do not accept the bet - it is that simple!
But it gets worse for WSEX.
Beyond having a rule that is "shady" at best and a true rip off, they went out of their way to post - WE PAYOUT AT TRACK ODDS OR BASED ON TRACK ODDS or whatever right on the top of their derby page.
Now you could definitely argue that this rule supercedes their multipage long rule book which is buried somewhere else.
Now beyond that, I do not buy for a second that WSEX meant they pay at whatever the horse goes off at, not what it is now. I believe they made this up when this crap went down. If that is what WSEX meant, they would have said all bets pay off based on the track odds at the start of the race or something along those lines.
At best, WSEX, was attempting to be deceptive and hoped more people would bet the derby with them based upon this line and hoped not to get burnt, but knew they had an out.
And finally it gets worse. I am avid gambler. I would surmise that I have placed more sports wagers than 99.99% of the world.
How many wagers have I placed on horses? 2 that I can think of. What were they on? The Derby. Once in 2003 when I went and once either in 2004 or 2005.
I bet war emblem in 2003 and won at the track - I think $1600 on $100.
The next year, I can not remember who I bet, but it did not win. I bet $500. It never crossed my mind to check the rules and see if I would get paid in full... I assumed as I do on all my bets, that if a book accepts the bet, it will pay what it says in the confirmation.
There are millions of people betting the derby who bet a horse or two every 5 years. These people do not know a book will not pay what it says it will pay.
WSEX is a household name in the gambling industry. They know they are out there and many users are not horse sharps. They know that many "novices" are going to come make one bet yesterday. And they know, they stiff a lot of them and very few ill know what to do, know of forums, etc.
Imagine this - you never bet horses. You are going to the derby. You've heard of WSEX. YOu get up Saturday morning. You bet $2 on a few trifectas. You win. You don't get paid.
No one who is not a horse raising sharp would ever think to check the payout limits on a $2 bet at one of the world's most respected offshore books. No one would think to check the limits and no one should.
Now an expert wanting to bet a $1000 trifecta might check the limits, but I would guess 99% of the people who bet a buck or two never thought to look at them. What type of book doesnt pay off a $2 bet! (ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY STATE IN BOLD _ PAID AT TRACK ODDS)
WSEX is plain and simply stealing from every single one of these people who won.
Bottom line, WSEX is an F book till they pay not only smokey, but every other person who bet yesterday, won and was stiffed.
Step up WSEX, use some of those millions and gain a ton of good publicity.
No one here, like smokey or not, should be taking their side.
-Sean
SEAN1...........
THANKS FOR THAT VERY THOUGHTFUL POST AND WELCOME TO WHAT I THINK IS THE BEST SPORTS FORUM IN AMERICA.....
IMAGINE THIS... HERE I AM IN AN HOTEL IN WEST VIRGINIA ON BIZ WITH A TRACK 30 MINS DOWN THE ROAD....
BUT I SEE THAT WSEX.COM WILL PAY "ACTUAL TRACK PAYOUTS"....
SO WHY DRIVE... MAKE A LITLE JACK AND WATER... BET MY TRI...
SCREAM LIKE HELL...... SEE WHAT THE PAYOFF IS.. $11,400....
SCREAM SOOO LOUD THE MANAGER COMES TO MY ROOM TO SEE IF I AM OK..... HE HAS A DRINK WITH ME.... I CALL AND BUY A BMW MOTORCYCLE ON EBAY FOR $8995 PLUS $205 PREP AND DELIVERY...
SO I GET MY NEW BIKE ANDOVER $2,000... ONE GREAT DAY...
A DAY THAT MAKES GREAT GAMBLING STORIES.........
TEN I GO TO WSEX.COM AND SEE I WON $602?????????
WTF.........
I WAS SOOOO MAD THAT I CANCELED ALL APPTS TODAY AND HAVE BEEN IN MY ROOM ALL DAY....
SO MUCH FOR THAT GREAT GAMBLING STORY AND TALKING ABOUT HOW WSEX IS JUST LIKE THE STORY I SAW ON HBO YEARS AGO...
WHIH IS WHT GOT ME TO LEAVE MY LOCAL AND TRY OFFSHORE...
THEY ARE NOT WHAT I THOUGHT THEY WERE... MAYBE THEY WILL WAKE UP.... MAYBE.....
THANKS AGAIN AND WELCOME TO THE RX
THANKS FOR THAT VERY THOUGHTFUL POST AND WELCOME TO WHAT I THINK IS THE BEST SPORTS FORUM IN AMERICA.....
IMAGINE THIS... HERE I AM IN AN HOTEL IN WEST VIRGINIA ON BIZ WITH A TRACK 30 MINS DOWN THE ROAD....
BUT I SEE THAT WSEX.COM WILL PAY "ACTUAL TRACK PAYOUTS"....
SO WHY DRIVE... MAKE A LITLE JACK AND WATER... BET MY TRI...
SCREAM LIKE HELL...... SEE WHAT THE PAYOFF IS.. $11,400....
SCREAM SOOO LOUD THE MANAGER COMES TO MY ROOM TO SEE IF I AM OK..... HE HAS A DRINK WITH ME.... I CALL AND BUY A BMW MOTORCYCLE ON EBAY FOR $8995 PLUS $205 PREP AND DELIVERY...
SO I GET MY NEW BIKE ANDOVER $2,000... ONE GREAT DAY...
A DAY THAT MAKES GREAT GAMBLING STORIES.........
TEN I GO TO WSEX.COM AND SEE I WON $602?????????
WTF.........
I WAS SOOOO MAD THAT I CANCELED ALL APPTS TODAY AND HAVE BEEN IN MY ROOM ALL DAY....
SO MUCH FOR THAT GREAT GAMBLING STORY AND TALKING ABOUT HOW WSEX IS JUST LIKE THE STORY I SAW ON HBO YEARS AGO...
WHIH IS WHT GOT ME TO LEAVE MY LOCAL AND TRY OFFSHORE...
THEY ARE NOT WHAT I THOUGHT THEY WERE... MAYBE THEY WILL WAKE UP.... MAYBE.....
THANKS AGAIN AND WELCOME TO THE RX
Dear Customer,
Please be advised that your account has been updated with a wager adjustment to reflect a revised payout on your exotic horse bets. Where exactas normally pay a maximum of 100-1, they now pay 300-1 and trifectas are now 900-1 instead of 300-1. This revision is for tripple crown races ONLY. Our rules continue to apply for all other races with a maximum payout of 100-1 and 300-1 for exactas and trifectas respectively.
Thank you for choosing WSEX and we look forward to your continued patronage.
Regards
WSEX
they must have laid all the exotics off and are having a lttle trouble sleping now...
AND I MUST HAVE HAPPENED TO MORE THAN JUST ONE PERSON....
DO THE RIGHT THINK........
</WMFILTERED>
Please be advised that your account has been updated with a wager adjustment to reflect a revised payout on your exotic horse bets. Where exactas normally pay a maximum of 100-1, they now pay 300-1 and trifectas are now 900-1 instead of 300-1. This revision is for tripple crown races ONLY. Our rules continue to apply for all other races with a maximum payout of 100-1 and 300-1 for exactas and trifectas respectively.
Thank you for choosing WSEX and we look forward to your continued patronage.
Regards
WSEX
they must have laid all the exotics off and are having a lttle trouble sleping now...
AND I MUST HAVE HAPPENED TO MORE THAN JUST ONE PERSON....
DO THE RIGHT THINK........
</WMFILTERED>
Can't believe I read all 13 pages .. Like most of you unbiased people, I agree that the "based on actual payout" line is VERY misleading. If I were completely unaware that there was a ceiling on these exotic bets at most sportsbooks I would certainly think that I would get the same payouts as if I were at a race track. EVERY PERSON should understand how smokey feels like him or not. Reading many of these posts who continuously keep bashing him makes me laugh and lose credibility for you.
The fact of the matter is that the line "based on actual payouts" contradicts their rules and every person should, wait, HAS to agree with that. Why? Because it is a fact...
The fact of the matter is that the line "based on actual payouts" contradicts their rules and every person should, wait, HAS to agree with that. Why? Because it is a fact...
<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>05-08-2006 05:14 AM</TD></TR><TR title="Post 2850489" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 align=middle width=125>SmokeyWins</TD><TD class=alt2>I WONDER WHAT THIS HAS COST WSEX.COM ALREADY????</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
LOL.... not much. With their customer base and the limited of number of readers at the RX I would venture to say they're way ahead of the game by not paying track odds. I'd also venture to say you're not going to see all of the money you think you deserve but if you do get it with this campaign of yours then congrats. They've been blasted before and they're still standing. I'd venture to say less than .05 % of their customers even know this place exists. Gl to you.
LOL.... not much. With their customer base and the limited of number of readers at the RX I would venture to say they're way ahead of the game by not paying track odds. I'd also venture to say you're not going to see all of the money you think you deserve but if you do get it with this campaign of yours then congrats. They've been blasted before and they're still standing. I'd venture to say less than .05 % of their customers even know this place exists. Gl to you.
ucking: - Status
