<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Matt24:
It seems like it is about time to bump up the 10,000 dollar buy in, that is what it was years ago. 2000 entries just seems like too many.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Matt24-
I disagree with you here buddy.
If the pros want to have their own exclusive tournament then use a different venue/tournament for that. I actually like the idea of folks like Moneymaker having an opportunity to mix it up with the pros. To some degree, they need to be shown that they make a living at a GAME that can be played by anyone and can be won by anyone. There is no doubt that pros play with an edge but when they are compared to professionals like Jordan, Woods, Roddick, etc. it is a joke. A professional poker player does not have the same edge (or even similar) over an average player as Tiger has over the average golfer or Roddick has over the average tennis player.
To win a tournament the size of today's WSOP you need skill and a LOT of luck (whether it is the cards you get or the table you draw).
With that said, I like the idea of an annual "invitational" tournament where the top 100 tournament players of the year get together and play a sponsored torunament for a few million. The top 100 could be determined by some ranking method based on results seen in other tournaments throughout the year.
It would be great to see this and the resulting debate of whether the WSOP champion is the "world champion" or the guy who wins the invitational.
It seems like it is about time to bump up the 10,000 dollar buy in, that is what it was years ago. 2000 entries just seems like too many.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Matt24-
I disagree with you here buddy.
If the pros want to have their own exclusive tournament then use a different venue/tournament for that. I actually like the idea of folks like Moneymaker having an opportunity to mix it up with the pros. To some degree, they need to be shown that they make a living at a GAME that can be played by anyone and can be won by anyone. There is no doubt that pros play with an edge but when they are compared to professionals like Jordan, Woods, Roddick, etc. it is a joke. A professional poker player does not have the same edge (or even similar) over an average player as Tiger has over the average golfer or Roddick has over the average tennis player.
To win a tournament the size of today's WSOP you need skill and a LOT of luck (whether it is the cards you get or the table you draw).
With that said, I like the idea of an annual "invitational" tournament where the top 100 tournament players of the year get together and play a sponsored torunament for a few million. The top 100 could be determined by some ranking method based on results seen in other tournaments throughout the year.
It would be great to see this and the resulting debate of whether the WSOP champion is the "world champion" or the guy who wins the invitational.
The defunct Tournament of Champions started out as an idea to have a truly elite field of only big names because you had to win a tourney to get in or be a Hall of Famer or past WSOP champ. Then because it was going to be sponsored they had to get all these people into it so you had a lot of qualifier tournaments at every cardroom imaginable so it just became a big tourney like any other. TOC tried to do too much, but originally Mike Sexton had the absolute right idea. Have mostly the cream of the crop, winners of the major tourneys around the country battle it out playing 4 different games. The idea is still good, maybe the WPT could host such an event at some point, not just the winners of events but a 100 player tournament with the cream of the crop playing for mostly pride and some added advertiser money.
I don't follow Poker, but I do know talent over luck..
Affleck over DiCaprio
Ivey over Moneymaker
Affleck over Flynt
Farha over Moneymaker..though Farha is wild, and may be called on rags early, where as Moneymaker will not want to look goofy as did Varkonyi in his return to the scene of Divine Intervention on day 1 last year.
Moneymaker is definitely sharper than Varkonyi, but still needed 5 miracles to win it last year.
[This message was edited by Horseshoe on May 06, 2004 at 04:44 AM.]
Affleck over DiCaprio
Ivey over Moneymaker
Affleck over Flynt
Farha over Moneymaker..though Farha is wild, and may be called on rags early, where as Moneymaker will not want to look goofy as did Varkonyi in his return to the scene of Divine Intervention on day 1 last year.
Moneymaker is definitely sharper than Varkonyi, but still needed 5 miracles to win it last year.
[This message was edited by Horseshoe on May 06, 2004 at 04:44 AM.]
You can bet the field at Bodog at +100 and bet against the field at Pinnacle at +229. Pinnacle has 200 players that are excluded from the field while Bodog only has about 50 so you get a middle as well. Too bad Bodog only has $50 limits. It's not often you see a 129 point scalp on an even money bet plus a middle!
Event #16 No-Limit Deuce to Seven Draw.
Buy-In $5,000
Prize Pool $740,500
Entries 46 + 84 rebuys
No Photo.
Winner Barry Greenstein (Rancho Palos Verdes, CA) $296,200.
FYI - Cris "Jesus" Fersuson finished 2nd. winning $170,315 - and Howard Ledderer 4th. winning $66,645. Nice final table. The final table was comprised of an ensemble cast better than any TV sitcom. Howard Lederer, Chau Giang, Lyle Berman, Chris Ferguson, Steve Zolotow, and Wil Wilkenson ended up as the extras alongside Greenstein’s masterful performance. When heads up play began, 2000 World Poker Champion Chris “Jesus” Ferguson was the lone obstacle to Greenstein’s bid to capture his first World Series of Poker victory. Greenstein had about a 3 to 1 chip lead over Ferguson, decked in his trademark black cowboy hat. Ferguson had a chance to make things interesting on the final hand when he had a better draw than Greenstein, but was nailed with a king. Greenstein had the better low (remember, the worst hand wins) and scooped the final hand of the night.
[This message was edited by wilheim on May 08, 2004 at 11:24 PM.]
Buy-In $5,000
Prize Pool $740,500
Entries 46 + 84 rebuys
No Photo.
Winner Barry Greenstein (Rancho Palos Verdes, CA) $296,200.
FYI - Cris "Jesus" Fersuson finished 2nd. winning $170,315 - and Howard Ledderer 4th. winning $66,645. Nice final table. The final table was comprised of an ensemble cast better than any TV sitcom. Howard Lederer, Chau Giang, Lyle Berman, Chris Ferguson, Steve Zolotow, and Wil Wilkenson ended up as the extras alongside Greenstein’s masterful performance. When heads up play began, 2000 World Poker Champion Chris “Jesus” Ferguson was the lone obstacle to Greenstein’s bid to capture his first World Series of Poker victory. Greenstein had about a 3 to 1 chip lead over Ferguson, decked in his trademark black cowboy hat. Ferguson had a chance to make things interesting on the final hand when he had a better draw than Greenstein, but was nailed with a king. Greenstein had the better low (remember, the worst hand wins) and scooped the final hand of the night.
[This message was edited by wilheim on May 08, 2004 at 11:24 PM.]
Event #17 Limit Hold 'Em Shoot Out
Buy-In $1,500
Prize Pool $331,200
Entries 240
Winner Kathy Liebert (Las Vegas, NV) $110,180.
Kathy Liebert’s name always comes up when the question of “best female poker player” arises. Now, it may be time to drop the “female” denomination, and simply say she is one of poker’s “best players.” Period.
Liebert made her case by winning the $1,500 buy-in Limit Hold’em Shootout event at the 2004 World Series of Poker. She officially received $110,180 for first place, along with her first gold bracelet. “Best poker players,” indeed. End of argument.
wil.
Buy-In $1,500
Prize Pool $331,200
Entries 240
Winner Kathy Liebert (Las Vegas, NV) $110,180.
Kathy Liebert’s name always comes up when the question of “best female poker player” arises. Now, it may be time to drop the “female” denomination, and simply say she is one of poker’s “best players.” Period.
Liebert made her case by winning the $1,500 buy-in Limit Hold’em Shootout event at the 2004 World Series of Poker. She officially received $110,180 for first place, along with her first gold bracelet. “Best poker players,” indeed. End of argument.
wil.
