VIP Sportsbook

Samurai · May 17, 2003

Buzzsaw:

It's nice to see that you're loyal to a book who has put a nice chunk of change in your pockets over the past few years, but let's stick to the point here.

Since you seem to have glossed over my last post to you, let me repeat it one more time. This is not about the math, or how many players VIP has booted over the years. This is about the lies they have been telling (and that you have been repeating) about only limiting/booting steam chasers and not all winners.

VIP, and all the books they are involved with, limit and boot winners....period.

This is a very good book to play at....as long as you are a loser, and don't show too many signs of betting intelligence. If you fit that criteria, you will probably be very happy there.

dimeplayersonly · May 17, 2003

SPIVE.......i am glad i half-ass like your posts...otherwise id put you in the same catagory as the vegas, mfg, elmers ect.........

seriously your a smart guy without a doubt ....but your endless comments on "PROPER BROKERING" is getting very old...........

Buzzsaw · May 17, 2003

Sam,
What lie? I glossed over it because all of your material is opinion. VIP says they had 11,000 active in 2002 and you said it doesn’t prove they did. VIP says they booted 11 players in 2002 and you say so what? BTW, did you see the First Fidelity thread yesterday? They said they had 15,000 active. I mean Sam, I'm not going to argue whether it's 99.999% as I say or your number which could be no lower than say 99.980 % of players do not get booted. I mean Sam, it's a ridiculous argument barely worthy of the time we have debated it.

So what lie Sam? Get you cut and paste out and show me. All I can tell you is that I have heard from 100's of players that have joined VIP and raved about the service and fast payouts. And that's not a guess or an opinion.

lander · May 17, 2003

Spive,
VIP is like a private country club ... they're Augusta & you're Anika ...

Get over it!!!

(And Buzzsaw is like NBC, but poorer)

Samurai · May 17, 2003

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Buzzsaw:
What lie? I glossed over it because all of your material is opinion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, it's not all opinion....and don't start playing dumb on me. We've gone over this in other threads before this one.

VIP, and the books they manage, have come to these forums on several occasions before claiming that they don't limit/boot winners, just steam chasers. You repeated that bogus claim in your first post of this thread.

The facts (not just opinion) are that VIP, and all the books they are involved with, limit and boot winners, not just steam chasers and other "undesirables".

They have adopted a cowardly style of bookmaking (if that's what you want to call it), and not only are they not completely upfront about that style, they have lied about in the past.

BTW, did you ever ask VIP how many players have been turned away before they were able to sign up or make a bet? How about the ones who have had limits cut to unacceptable levels, which effectively boots them? How about players that have had accounts at more than one VIP book who have had their accounts consolidated? I'm pretty sure VIP doesn't count any of them towards the booting figure, but they certainly should.

The whole point here is that VIP has been much less than honest and forthright about the way they really operate, and not only have you let them go unchallenged, you have joined in their bogus chorus.

This is not what I would expect from you.

SPIVE · May 17, 2003

Gentlemen, I am humored by such a "casino mentality" sported by the Bookmakers here, one which shoots for 100% losers, as if +99% isn’t enough.

Understanding that managing action is a challenge for those subscribing to such a mentality…a mentality, which shamelessly admits defeated by eliminating their opponent from a playing field already heavily tilted in their favor.

justpay · May 17, 2003

I think to sum up Sam's point
VIP hates any kind of winners
I don't see a problem with that because ALL BOOKS hate winners

BUT

REAL BOOKS will book

They won't cut your limits to dinner and movies
or even Boot you

I have never played at VIP
but heard they really hate winners from a couple of players.

VIP is not alone. Many books out there are conducting business the same way.

I only see a few books that would not cut limits to a minimum or boot players.

UncleButternutts · May 17, 2003

Samurai

Good posts, good info..Thanks.

UncleButternutts · May 18, 2003

Samurai , justpay ...

Thank you for the unbiased posts..

No 'click-thru' pay makes a world of difference..

Thanx for the unpaid version of VIP...

Buzzsaw · May 18, 2003

Uncle,
Uncle - I defend ALL the top books WWTS, VIP, Pinnacle, Olympic, CRIS, Canbet, WSEX, Grande, ect. if someone says something untrue about them. Now why don't you tell me again how I dropped the ball when I exposed an Rx world class book - Homebets

You see that's the difference, you defend (& the Rx gladly takes their $) this slippery group while I warn players that they are liars. So put that in your "click - through" pipe and smoke it

Sam,
Show me the lie Sam? We both know if there was one you would of cut and pasted it by now.

I do agree with you that if you are a player in the upper 1% of players you should stick with the 10 or so books that do not boot.

Frankie5angels · May 18, 2003

Canbet and vip are not even close to being top books. Unless you are being paid to say that I guess.

PanchoSanza · May 18, 2003

Respectfully disagree, Canbet is a top book.

VIP 11,000 active accounts?

I highly doubt that considering WWTS has about 6,000.

Buzzsaw · May 18, 2003

Pancho,
It may be in how one determines an active account. For example, First Fidelity said in the "we screamed at an innocent 11 yr girl" thread that they had 15,000.

Frankie,
Are you a sharp player? I know for a fact Pancho is. But when you say VIP and Canbet are not top books you are really saying that they are not top books for the 5% of sharp players.

But they are both as good as they get for the the average players that make up 95% of the players. If 3 casual players join VIP, Oly & Pinnacle then the best feedback will come from the player that joined VIP. If those same 3 players are sharp then Pinnacle will win every time.

merlyn · May 18, 2003

Fact, I am have been related to books OTHER than VIP and never with VIP. Yet, I know how VIP works and I know a lot of the people there and I know the products they offer. Regarding the people behind VIP and the software, these people are honorable and keep their word. They are also up front about their products and the players they want to have as customers. They emphasize customer service and they have continued to grow for 5 years without stupid bunuses and without tricks. I will also be in competion with them in the future. So why would I say this? Because I want to see the right people make it in this business. When people are honorable with their word, they should be the ones who are succesful. These are the kind of people and this is the kind of company that gives this business a chance to get out of the black and the grey and be brought forth as a legitimate business into the white. The emulate that status NOW, today, and do it through self regulation. This is what the creator of their software has as his goal and I belive that the Director of VIP shares this same goal. Merlyn

Samurai · May 18, 2003

Buzzsaw:

Are you still insisting on playing dumb, or are you just trying to do a semantics wiggle?

Are you saying that VIP, or any of the books they manage, has never misrepresented their policy on how they deal with winners?

Also, do you condone this policy of limiting/booting winners? I know they have the right to operate any way they see fit, but do you as the operator of a sportsbook watchdog site condone this practice?

DickyW · May 18, 2003

Samurai

"Are you saying that VIP, or any of the books they manage, has never misrepresented their policy on how they deal with winners"

Can you prove that they did?

Samurai · May 18, 2003

Uncle B:

You're welcome.

I think it's important for players to have a clear, accurate and honest picture of a books' policies.

jjgold · May 18, 2003

VIP is more innovative than 95% of books on the planet, why can a book like this and lets say bet365 always improve and the majority of the rest just stay the same and get stangant.

Buzzsaw · May 18, 2003

Sam,
You made the statement they lied. I ask you to offer some proof, any kind of proof. And then you accuse me of playing dumb? OOOK Sam LMAO

So are you saying you have zero proof? Now Sam, we have been on the same side of many arguments and you mostly back up what you say. But not this time.

You should retract your statement or offer some shred of proof. You know better than anyone if you come on a public forum and accuse a book of lying you ought to have SOMETHING to back it up. Otherwise it's just agenda driven and baseless rhetoric.

lander · May 18, 2003

Guys, let's be rationale here ...
VIP cut my limits to $50 ... I haven't played there since ...

but they are always one of the first books that I recommend. Their management & CS are top notch people & their reputation for being financially sounds speaks for itself.

Allistar said that my limits were cut because he didn't want to cut me a 20 dime check every year ... and that it's the ulitmate compliment. He was honest and sincere, a perfect representation of his book. This policy is for VIP to make .. it is the fiscally sound decision & it is the decision that ultimately ensure there is always a fast payout for the rest of you.
They have no obligation to let sharps clean them out.

A great book that everyone should play at while they can.